Number 1 Amateur team in the Country?

Niall0

The MMA Clinic took another clean sweep (5-0) on Saturday at Battlezone 7, with Darren O Gorman capturing the Bantamweight title, so are they the number 1 Ammy Gym now?

manga_10

looking sharp

cowzerp

The Boxing clinic are certainly there or thereabouts when it comes to top Amateur MMA teams, they're doing things right and will be a force to deal with in future.

SDTimeout

Would agree on current form. Still looking forward to Rush's progression as well as a lot of the Team Torres guys.

cowzerp

SDTimeout wrote: »

Still looking forward to Rush's progression

What i would say id numbers wise we are quite small, The area is not near as large as many of our rivals so we have a limited pool of people we can train, In saying that we have some of the top Amateurs around and a year or 2 ago we certainly had the best Teen team around and if they kept going we would have been even stronger, Most have disappeared unfortunately so that's a shame.

theboxingclinic

Rush have very high level ammies. Fai are the same. I havnt heard much anout team Torres so camt comment there. If people say we are the best Ammie team that's great but just like Paul Cowzer we want to bring that through to pro. Where we are now is not just on current form, we have been getting these results the last 2 years. Irish MMA is really on the up and bodes well for the future

magicherbs

is it really relevant though? like what makes an amateur other than sandbagging by his coach ? this isn't boxing.

theboxingclinic

I think the last thing we can be accused of is sandbagging, thanks for your input though.

magicherbs wrote: »

is it really relevant though? like what makes an amateur other than sandbagging by his coach ? this isn't boxing.

cowzerp

magicherbs wrote: »

is it really relevant though? like what makes an amateur other than sandbagging by his coach ? this isn't boxing.

What's that meant to mean, if club x has 10 great lads training 1 year or 2 and their better than club y's same period training then of course it matters, Good Amateurs are most likely to become good pro's with experience, Sandbagging would be more the clubs who have lads training 1-3 years without ever fighting then suddenly getting them debut fights like as if they are new, Clubs like RFA, Boxing Clinic etc are doing the opposite to that, plenty more but I'm just naming who's been mentioned.

SDTimeout

Also.

A professional is someone who makes all their money from it. By the end of the year Ireland will have at least two professional fighters. Conor McGregor and Norman Parke. There are fighters in Ireland who fight under professional rule sets and may well train like professionals, but have their own clubs, private coaching, personal training and teaching that makes up their income. That's just a personal gripe I have with some Irish fighters.

When I said Team Torres I also meant to include FAI in that, Joe McColgan was the best Amateur fighter in the country.

theboxingclinic

many more would say it was ciaran daly and hes an award to show that, others will say it was tommy martin, sean tobin, adam caffrey etc etc. opinion opinion opinion

SDTimeout wrote: »

Also.

A professional is someone who makes all their money from it. By the end of the year Ireland will have at least two professional fighters. Conor McGregor and Norman Parke. There are fighters in Ireland who fight under professional rule sets and may well train like professionals, but have their own clubs, private coaching, personal training and teaching that makes up their income. That's just a personal gripe I have with some Irish fighters.

When I said Team Torres I also meant to include FAI in that, Joe McColgan was the best Amateur fighter in the country.

magicherbs

SDTimeout wrote: »

Also.

A professional is someone who makes all their money from it. By the end of the year Ireland will have at least two professional fighters. Conor McGregor and Norman Parke. There are fighters in Ireland who fight under professional rule sets and may well train like professionals, but have their own clubs, private coaching, personal training and teaching that makes up their income. That's just a personal gripe I have with some Irish fighters.

When I said Team Torres I also meant to include FAI in that, Joe McColgan was the best Amateur fighter in the country.

Well that's the problem with having a monotone view of the definition of professional. As it's applied in this context, it's purely down to the rule set you fight at. Nobody would call mike tyson an amateur because he no longer makes a living off punching people.

I'd have to look at every case separately with regard to the boxing clinic. TAke each one and tell me how long they've been training mma and how long they've been training boxing. How many amateur fights have they had etc.

The standard at amateur is all over the shop, you can have people who have been training for two weeks fighting someone at it two years. Praising your performace at amateur is like telling people you won the european bjj at white belt level - bit sad and misleading.

having said that, if the aim of the clubs like boxing clinic and rush is to make something in mma akin to boxing, where the sports are separate and distinct, and they want to promote the amateur ethos, then fair enough.

SDTimeout

magicherbs wrote: »

Well that's the problem with having a monotone view of the definition of professional. As it's applied in this context, it's purely down to the rule set you fight at. Nobody would call mike tyson an amateur because he no longer makes a living off punching people.

I'd have to look at every case separately with regard to the boxing clinic. TAke each one and tell me how long they've been training mma and how long they've been training boxing. How many amateur fights have they had etc.

The standard at amateur is all over the shop, you can have people who have been training for two weeks fighting someone at it two years. Praising your performace at amateur is like telling people you won the european bjj at white belt level - bit sad and misleading.

having said that, if the aim of the clubs like boxing clinic and rush is to make something in mma akin to boxing, where the sports are separate and distinct, and they want to promote the amateur ethos, then fair enough.

I'm not going to listen to anything else you've said because of this completely wrong point.

As someone who has competed at the Europeans in the White Belt division and seen the standard of the guys who won it. It's ridiculous.

They would beat a lot of club level Blue Belts that's for sure.

Goodbye.

magicherbs

SDTimeout wrote: »

I'm not going to listen to anything else you've said because of this completely wrong point.

As someone who has competed at the Europeans in the White Belt division and seen the standard of the guys who won it. It's ridiculous.

They would beat a lot of club level Blue Belts that's for sure.

Goodbye.

so why are they white belts than? sandbagging and nothing else to get a medal.

manga_10

Different clubs, different standards. There are bjj clubs that promote guys that most wouldn't think would make the belt but are promoted. It's all down to the coachs at the end of the day.

Jason McCabe

A club is built on the standard of its fundamentals so the amateurs or lower grades are a great reflection on the club

Or you can go around poaching talent from other clubs


In the north IMMA produce some great young fighters.

We have brought a few good lads through, just hard to keep some motivated or watch them head off to college/ Australia.

It's a long grind

Cork do seem to be on to something quite big

theboxingclinic

Thanks Jason


Quote=Jason McCabe;83501491]A club is built on the standard of its fundamentals so the amateurs or lower grades are a great reflection on the club

Or you can go around poaching talent from other clubs


In the north IMMA produce some great young fighters.

We have brought a few good lads through, just hard to keep some motivated or watch them head off to college/ Australia.

It's a long grind

Cork do seem to be on to something quite big[/Quote]

Clive

SDTimeout wrote: »

Also.

A professional is someone who makes all their money from it. By the end of the year Ireland will have at least two professional fighters.

That's a pretty odd definition of professional. By that thinking none of the UFC fighters with another income stream are professionals and you'd need Conor and Norman's full financial details before you could say they are professionals.

Anyway fair play to all the clubs, coaches and training partners who are producing "amateur" fighters. These guys and girls are the future.

darced

This post has been deleted.

SDTimeout

Clive wrote: »

That's a pretty odd definition of professional. By that thinking none of the UFC fighters with another income stream are professionals and you'd need Conor and Norman's full financial details before you could say they are professionals.
.

I know just playing devils advocate, the discussion of professionals was brought up in college and it made me think.

EnjoyChoke

magicherbs wrote: »

Well that's the problem with having a monotone view of the definition of professional. As it's applied in this context, it's purely down to the rule set you fight at. Nobody would call mike tyson an amateur because he no longer makes a living off punching people.

I'd have to look at every case separately with regard to the boxing clinic. TAke each one and tell me how long they've been training mma and how long they've been training boxing. How many amateur fights have they had etc.

The standard at amateur is all over the shop, you can have people who have been training for two weeks fighting someone at it two years. Praising your performace at amateur is like telling people you won the european bjj at white belt level - bit sad and misleading.

having said that, if the aim of the clubs like boxing clinic and rush is to make something in mma akin to boxing, where the sports are separate and distinct, and they want to promote the amateur ethos, then fair enough.

I would bet, given your attitude, that you have never won anything of any significance in your entire life.

Kieran81

Calling good amateurs sandbaggers is the wrong perspective to look at them from , the skill level amateur guys operate at now simply proves that ( a large percentage of ) guys were moving up to pro rules too soon until the last few years . I think the changing of the ruleset a couple of years back has been the single biggest factor in the amateur now having more time/fights to discover where they need to improve before moving up to pro level , because they can fight amateur under a realistic ruleset , which naturally will lead to more guys having ten plus amateur fights which was pretty rare before the rule change .

cowzerp

True, I was pro before I had even a semi pro match up and most amateurs now would have as good if not a better ground game than I did then-this is down to mismanagement and bad promotion work

Amateurs now are actually learning the ropes and will be better pros for it, if I could go back I'd have done a good few semi pro fights, ps, there is no semi pro now, that's what the step before pro used to be called.

Mellor

SDTimeout wrote: »

I know just playing devils advocate, the discussion of professionals was brought up in college and it made me think.

I think it's the "all their income" part where it falls down. Lots if professionals have two revenues. As with all sports, a lot of low level pros will have other jobs. I suppose there's a difference between pro and full time pro.

magicherbs

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

I would bet, given your attitude, that you have never won anything of any significance in your entire life.

i haven't, and neither have many others. When you start listing the European Brasilian Jiu Jitsu White Belt category, for people aged 30 and a half to 32 and a quarter, who weigh between 78kg and 80.5kg, who have moustaches but no beards, which contains 2 competitor, and you list being a silver medal in that category as a significant achievement, I have cause to question your definition.

Winning the Adult, not the master, at blue, purple, brown, black in the euros is worthy of a pat on the back. the rest are just stocking fillers.

EnjoyChoke

magicherbs wrote: »

i haven't.

Thought so.

Tim_Murphy

magicherbs wrote: »

i haven't, and neither have many others. When you start listing the European Brasilian Jiu Jitsu White Belt category, for people aged 30 and a half to 32 and a quarter, who weigh between 78kg and 80.5kg, who have moustaches but no beards, which contains 2 competitor, and you list being a silver medal in that category as a significant achievement, I have cause to question your definition.

Winning the Adult, not the master, at blue, purple, brown, black in the euros is worthy of a pat on the back. the rest are just stocking fillers.

What nonsense.:rolleyes:

DB888

"Praising your performace at amateur is like telling people you won the european bjj at white belt level - bit sad and misleading"



Whats misleading??Your attitude is pretty sad I think
I won the IBJJF Europeans at white belt,granted its not as fantastic as winning at blue,purple,etc,but I still have that big ass shiny gold medal sitting on my locker,that I see every morning when I wake up and remember the time it happened and how it happened,and how hard I worked through the year for it,and I can call myself a BJJ european champion at adult level,one of the few from Ireland who can

EnjoyChoke

DB888 wrote: »

I won the IBJJF Europeans at white belt

Well done on your achievement. Some people will never know what it's like to have their had raised at a big comp or fight and must rely on posting **** on Internet forums to get their kicks.

RoboRat

Different clubs, different standards. There are bjj clubs that promote guys that most wouldn't think would make the belt but are promoted. It's all down to the coachs at the end of the day.

This.

The same can be said about practically any sports. I have played football at a very high level and in my day I was a far superior footballer than lads who had played as long or longer than me and it was down to coaching an dedication.

Some coaches are just better - they might be able to translate theory better and might have a better understanding of their students and the students will reap the rewards. Also, some students are better - they might understand quicker, have better cardio to train harder, have dedication. Therefore these competitors are better but not because of sandbagging, just because they are better.

Just because a competitor might walk a division doesn't indicate that its sandbagging.

magicherbs

DB888 wrote: »

"Praising your performace at amateur is like telling people you won the european bjj at white belt level - bit sad and misleading"



Whats misleading??Your attitude is pretty sad I think
I won the IBJJF Europeans at white belt,granted its not as fantastic as winning at blue,purple,etc,but I still have that big ass shiny gold medal sitting on my locker,that I see every morning when I wake up and remember the time it happened and how it happened,and how hard I worked through the year for it,and I can call myself a BJJ european champion at adult level,one of the few from Ireland who can

is it up there with your egg and spoon race trophy?

cowzerp

magicherbs wrote: »

is it up there with your egg and spoon race trophy?

Thread ban
Look Don't post on this thread again or you will be banned off the forum.

boxer.fan

Anyone else wondering what sandbagging is?

EnjoyChoke

boxer.fan wrote: »

Anyone else wondering what sandbagging is?

Knowingly entering a lower division than you should, for the purposes of winning a medal.

Niall0

The mma clinic in cork amateur team have achieved a 54-9-2 record over 65 fights in under 3 years that's a 6:1 win loss ratio and have taken 3 Ammy titles I think. If your looking to start out in mma you could probably find worse places like.....