Heat exchanger problem

tunner · 03-03-2013 8:51am #1

Hi
I am having trouble with my gas boiler. i recently got a service because its making alot of noise when you start it up. The noise has got worse since the service. It's a very loud noise and lasts about 15 mins when the boiler starts thus waking the baby in the morning!!

Gas service guy said it sounds like the heat exchanger and they can be dear. The boiler is a potterton standard efficient 24 System boiler.

Can these be bought off eBay etc and could I replace it myself or does it involve someone disconnecting gas or water pipes?

Many thanks

Robbie.G · 03-03-2013 9:14am

tunner wrote: »

Hi
I am having trouble with my gas boiler. i recently got a service because its making alot of noise when you start it up. The noise has got worse since the service. It's a very loud noise and lasts about 15 mins when the boiler starts thus waking the baby in the morning!!

Gas service guy said it sounds like the heat exchanger and they can be dear. The boiler is a potterton standard efficient 24 System boiler.

Can these be bought off eBay etc and could I replace it myself or does it involve someone disconnecting gas or water pipes?

Many thanks

Under law only an rgi can replace it.Ring a few and ask for a price to supply and fit or you can buy it yourself and get an rgi to fit it

shane0007 · 03-03-2013 9:33am

If the heat exchanger is blocked, then it is absolutely pointless changing it without doing a Powerflush to the system & eliminating the reason why the system is full of sludge in the first instance.
I would do the Powerflush & corrective work first as this could then clear the heat exchanger & thus not need replacing. I have powerflushed those exchangers with considerable success in the past so you may not have to replace it.

Does the boiler sound like it is making pop corn?

tunner · 03-03-2013 10:17am

shane0007 wrote: »

If the heat exchanger is blocked, then it is absolutely pointless changing it without doing a Powerflush to the system & eliminating the reason why the system is full of sludge in the first instance.
I would do the Powerflush & corrective work first as this could then clear the heat exchanger & thus not need replacing. I have powerflushed those exchangers with considerable success in the past so you may not have to replace it.

Does the boiler sound like it is making pop corn?

Making popcorn?!

It sounds like a very loud humming noise.

I was thinking of the power flush simply because there is a groupon offer at the min for €99

Robbie.G · 03-03-2013 10:26am

tunner wrote: »

Making popcorn?!

It sounds like a very loud humming noise.

I was thinking of the power flush simply because there is a groupon offer at the min for €99

Save your money a proper power flush would take around 6hrs and there's nearly €100 in chemicals alone.if its a humming noise I doubt it's your heat exchanger more Likely the fan but its impossible to tell without seeing it

shane0007 · 03-03-2013 10:29am

tunner wrote: »

Making popcorn?!
It sounds like a very loud humming noise.

Usually restricted heat changers may a crackling sound that is similar to popcorn being made. A humming noise could be heat exchanger but might not be also. Could be fan bearings.

tunner wrote: »

I was thinking of the power flush simply because there is a groupon offer at the min for €99

For €99 you could not get a Powerflush. The chemicals alone will cost that! Then pay somebody a days labour and the rest of the overheads. Powerflush is usually about €450. If it is sludge you must also factor in the cost of the corrective works. Sludge is in the system for a reason.

tunner · 03-03-2013 10:36am

shane0007 wrote: »

Usually restricted heat changers may a crackling sound that is similar to popcorn being made. A humming noise could be heat exchanger but might not be also. Could be fan bearings.

For €99 you could not get a Powerflush. The chemicals alone will cost that! Then pay somebody a days labour and the rest of the overheads. Powerflush is usually about €450. If it is sludge you must also factor in the cost of the corrective works. Sludge is in the system for a reason.

This is the one I am referring to. €99

http://www.mydealpage.ie/default/shortpage.php?rid=5&dealid=40078

Robbie.G · 03-03-2013 10:44am

tunner wrote: »

This is the one I am referring to. €99

http://www.mydealpage.ie/default/shortpage.php?rid=5&dealid=40078

That's not a power flush that's just running water through the heating system and out the other side.If you want to go with that work away but it will do nothing for your system they don't even mention inhibitor

tunner · 03-03-2013 11:04am

Robbie.G wrote: »

That's not a power flush that's just running water through the heating system and out the other side.If you want to go with that work away but it will do nothing for your system they don't even mention inhibitor

I have nowhere near €450 to spend on a power flush. Tho whole point in me creating this thread about doing the work myself was because I've no money to get it done by anyone else.

Need the cheapest solution to the problem

I know you guys are well trained and have invested a lot of money in your profession but my profession has me financially to the wall unfortunately

Robbie.G · 03-03-2013 11:12am

tunner wrote: »

I have nowhere near €450 to spend on a power flush. Tho whole point in me creating this thread about doing the work myself was because I've no money to get it done by anyone else.

Need the cheapest solution to the problem

I know you guys are well trained and have invested a lot of money in your profession but my profession has me financially to the wall unfortunately

Its not to get the cheapest but the most cost efficient.if you change the heat exchanger without sorting the problem that caused it its possible you might have to get a new one within a year.Going with the deal if a flush is a complete waste of money.We can only advise what's best but that costs money and in some cases a lot of money.But we also have to try and work to budget so if you want the cheapest option go with what I said originally.Best of luck

tunner · 03-03-2013 11:22am

Robbie.G wrote: »

Its not to get the cheapest but the most cost efficient.if you change the heat exchanger without sorting the problem that caused it its possible you might have to get a new one within a year.Going with the deal if a flush is a complete waste of money.We can only advise what's best but that costs money and in some cases a lot of money.But we also have to try and work to budget so if you want the cheapest option go with what I said originally.Best of luck

How much are new boilers? Friend of mine said about €6-800?

Robbie.G · 03-03-2013 11:32am

tunner wrote: »

How much are new boilers? Friend of mine said about €6-800?

Boilers vary in price so much it depends on what you want and need.Some boilers are available from €600 up

shane0007 · 03-03-2013 11:45am

tunner wrote: »

How much are new boilers? Friend of mine said about €6-800?

Even if you got a new boiler for €800 the system still needs to be flushed. The boiler can also ONLY be changed by a Registered Gas Installer. I know times are hard but economics are no excuse for safety.
As I said it may not be sludge, so I would
call back the RGI who serviced it & ask him to test the fan bearings when cold. Ignition were sludge it would not disappear once the system got hot, it would get worse! If you are not happy with that RGI, get another or ask for a referral here for your area. Then both sludge & fan can be investigated.

tunner · 03-03-2013 12:56pm

shane0007 wrote: »

Even if you got a new boiler for €800 the system still needs to be flushed. The boiler can also ONLY be changed by a Registered Gas Installer. I know times are hard but economics are no excuse for safety.
As I said it may not be sludge, so I would
call back the RGI who serviced it & ask him to test the fan bearings when cold. Ignition were sludge it would not disappear once the system got hot, it would get worse! If you are not happy with that RGI, get another or ask for a referral here for your area. Then both sludge & fan can be investigated.

I am based in Dublin 7 so if you can pm me a referral please. How much would it cost someone to take a look at the fan and sludge? Ballpark

P.s. I would never attempt to have anyone other than an rgi to install a boiler

Thanks for help this far

tunner · 03-03-2013 3:40pm

i tried to upload a 30 second clip of the noise recorded on my phone but boards.ie wont let me so if anyone feels generous and mails me a private message ill gladly mail the video for you to listen and give me your opinions

thanks in advance

Dtp79 · 03-03-2013 4:02pm

tunner wrote: »

i tried to upload a 30 second clip of the noise recorded on my phone but boards.ie wont let me so if anyone feels generous and mails me a private message ill gladly mail the video for you to listen and give me your opinions

thanks in advance

Put your video on YouTube. Then put a link to it here

tunner · 06-03-2013 3:50pm

Dtp79 wrote: »

Put your video on YouTube. Then put a link to it here

Ok, my friend uploaded the video for me. Here it is. Any ideas?

Thanks

http://youtu.be/O-bPMWyFNoI

tunner · 20-03-2013 7:07pm

tunner wrote: »

Ok, my friend uploaded the video for me. Here it is. Any ideas?

Thanks

http://youtu.be/O-bPMWyFNoI

Anyone?

Dtp79 · 20-03-2013 7:12pm

tunner wrote: »

Anyone?

God sorry bout that!!
To be honest I've no idea what that noise is. Maybe if I had the cover off I could narrow it down to a certain point. In regards blocked heat exchanger, how long does it take your boiler lights to from 30 to 70?

sullzz · 20-03-2013 10:04pm

Hard to tell , could be fan if it stops making noise after 10 mins , you might want to top up your pressure too it seems to be at zero

K.Flyer · 20-03-2013 11:18pm

If your boiler has been running on low to zero pressure for any amount of time its most likely that your circulating pump has been damaged and is making the humming sound.

tunner · 27-04-2013 8:23am

K.Flyer wrote: »

If your boiler has been running on low to zero pressure for any amount of time its most likely that your circulating pump has been damaged and is making the humming sound.

Is there any way for me to check ad see if its the pump?

shane0007 · 27-04-2013 8:39am

tunner wrote: »

Is there any way for me to check ad see if its the pump?

Is that not sorted yet?
That is not the heat exchanger. Sounds more like the fan, but this can only be carried out by an RGI. It should easily be identified by an RGI but they would need to at the boiler to be sure. Plenty of good ones here if you request a PM.

tunner · 27-04-2013 10:54am

shane0007 wrote: »

Is that not sorted yet?
That is not the heat exchanger. Sounds more like the fan, but this can only be carried out by an RGI. It should easily be identified by an RGI but they would need to at the boiler to be sure. Plenty of good ones here if you request a PM.

No not sorted. No money lads to be honest. I put some inhibitor i had into the system thinking it would help the problem but no change.

If someone could pm me with a price that'd be great

sullzz · 27-04-2013 7:22pm

Inhibitor wouldnt cure a noise , where are you based

tunner · 27-04-2013 7:50pm

Dublin 7

QBE · 28-04-2013 12:10am

tunner wrote: »

Ok, my friend uploaded the video for me. Here it is. Any ideas?

Thanks

http://youtu.be/O-bPMWyFNoI[/QUOTE]

sorry just read this post. id nearly put money on it listning to the noise you provided/ that's a problem with your circulating pump and pressure.

belcampprisoner · 28-04-2013 12:14am

gas company is best one to service it

QBE · 28-04-2013 12:18am

belcampprisoner wrote: »

gas company is best one to service it

.that's not your heat exchanger or your fan.
That's pressure and the circulating pump, not a thing to do with the boiler, it will cut out within the next week. its not major. 150e will sort it. however if it don't cut out you might burn out the pump .if its not fixed soon.

gas company sell gas. try a heating eng

QBE · 28-04-2013 12:39am

belcampprisoner wrote: »

gas company is best one to service it

the sooner the better people realise

gas company = sell gas
Plumbers= fit pipes
mechanical services= fit heating systems
service tech = service boilers

a milk man= delivers milk

now some tradesmen provide amalgamated services. so check their abilities out and you will only have to pay once.

tunner · 28-04-2013 7:07am

The pressure has always been low. I tried topping it up but nothing happened really. It's gravity fed so left refill valve open ages and not much happened. One or 2 rads are cold at the top and hot at the bottom. Even after I bleed them.

All these problems started when I had a bathroom shower leak and had to replace bathroom before Xmas.

shane0007 · 28-04-2013 9:11am

tunner wrote: »

The pressure has always been low. I tried topping it up but nothing happened really. It's gravity fed so left refill valve open ages and not much happened. One or 2 rads are cold at the top and hot at the bottom. Even after I bleed them.

All these problems started when I had a bathroom shower leak and had to replace bathroom before Xmas.

It's not the pump & you have a semi-sealed system so nothing to do with water content/pressure.
It is a typical fan bearing noise.
Oh & The Gas Company is a service company in Dublin not Bord Gais.

tunner · 28-04-2013 9:50am

How would one replace the fan?
I was going to release so e air in the pump to see if that remedied the problem

Dtp79 · 28-04-2013 9:52am

tunner wrote: »

How would one replace the fan?
I was going to release so e air in the pump to see if that remedied the problem

The only way to replace a fan is to get an RGI to do it. As soon as you take the cover off the boiler you're breaking the law if you're not an RGI

Robbie.G · 28-04-2013 9:54am

tunner wrote: »

How would one replace the fan?
I was going to release so e air in the pump to see if that remedied the problem

As the fan is an internal part of the boiler replacing the fan or any other parts would have to be carried out by a Rgi

tunner · 28-04-2013 9:55am

Robbie.G wrote: »

As the fan is an internal part of the boiler replacing the fan or any other parts would have to be carried out by a Rgi

How much are we talking?

shane0007 · 28-04-2013 9:57am

tunner wrote: »

How would one replace the fan?
I was going to release so e air in the pump to see if that remedied the problem

You MUST get an RGI to do ANY works inside the boiler. It's a criminal offence to do otherwise. I understand economics is playing a factor but safety must come first. You may unknowingly disturb a critical safety feature of the boiler or leave the flue leaking POC's into the room causing carbon monoxide poisoning. You don't have the equipment to test the flue following works. An RGI does.
It should cost about €100 plus the part so is a €100 worth the risk? You still have to buy the part anyhow.
Plus if it is not the fan, he can diagnose the issue & take parts back.

QBE · 28-04-2013 2:35pm

it sounds like the circulating pump.........please confirm, what it was when repaired

oikster · 28-04-2013 3:57pm

Could someone define a semi-sealed system? A system is either sealed or it is not,is it not?

Dtp79 · 28-04-2013 4:08pm

oikster wrote: »

Could someone define a semi-sealed system? A system is either sealed or it is not,is it not?

Yes a sealed system is a sealed system. A so called semi sealed system was a product of the boom years where plumbers put in a header tank with ballcock as a filler ( just in case of a small leak ) so they wouldn't get callbacks to the sites they were throwing together in a few days. I've even saw them using the large plumbing cistern as there take off point.

sullzz · 28-04-2013 4:50pm

As dtp79 says the system is fed off a header tank or the main cold water storage cistern the rest of the system is the very same as a sealed system as in it has an expansion vessell etc . The only difference is there is no filling loop , instead there is the header tank with a gate valve left open and a non return valve .

oikster · 28-04-2013 5:15pm

Your clarity is much appreciated guys.So is it a case that these type of connections should be removed,especially ones into plumbing,or can the boilers not be run at higher pressures?

sullzz · 28-04-2013 5:21pm

I think they should be removed and a filling loop fitted , any boiler can be run at 1.5 bar pressure , the semi sealed systems which are fed from the domestic storage tanks are lethal as you are only relying on the non return valve to prevent contamination of the water you wash yourself in and brush your teeth with , these non return valves can and do fail.

tunner · 28-04-2013 5:24pm

So should I remove this set up and feed it from the mains?

sullzz · 28-04-2013 5:30pm

Ideally yes , but that is not causing your noise , a heating system performes better under preasure , one thing to be noted is it might show up leaks on weak joints or make small leaks be noticed as you will see preasure drops , but in my opinion this is a good thing , as any leaks should be known and not hidden by a semi sealed system .

Heat exchanger problem

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