Getting an A1 in Irish

Sarah1989

Is it pretty much impossible to get an A1 in Irish if you're not fluent?? I don't know whether I'm wasting my time putting loads of extra effort into the subject or if I should just cut my losses now and concentrate on the other subjects??

Mr.Fun

I wasnt fluent and got an A2 last year by learning off hundreds of phrases and sentences

Sarah1989

Mr.Fun wrote: »

I wasnt fluent and got an A2 last year by learning off hundreds of phrases and sentences

And what about grammar did you know all of that inside out? The hardest part for me is putting sentences together?

HPMS

I've been wondering the same thing. Do you have to use lots of fancy phrases or is using the briathra saor and fancy sentence structures enough. I would love an A1 in irish and all I always get As in class but don't know if that's just my teacher.

Mr.Fun

Sarah1989 wrote: »

And what about grammar did you know all of that inside out? The hardest part for me is putting sentences together?

I never studied grammar on its own but you kind of get used to what tense to use when you learn off chunks of stuff like me. I definitely didnt spend long on tenses they just came naturally after saying and writing irish almost everyday for 5th and 6th year plus I wasnt in an irish speaking school like some ppl

eyescreamcone

Sarah1989 wrote: »

Is it pretty much impossible to get an A1 in Irish if you're not fluent?? I don't know whether I'm wasting my time putting loads of extra effort into the subject or if I should just cut my losses now and concentrate on the other subjects??

How do people become fluent in a language that is rarely used??
Do you have to go to a gaelscoil (Primary and or secondary) to have any chance at an A1 in Irish???
Especially with 40% going for the oral part

Esoteric_

No, it's not impossible. I did my lc in 2006 and I'm not fluent in Irish, but got my A1. I actually got an A2 in English, despite being fluent in that! :pac:

To be honest, it takes a hell of a lot of work. I studied Irish for about three hours each night, learned off hundreds, possibly thousands of verbs, sentences, stories and poems. I found that the more I wrote (I wrote out everything I learned by heart, to make sure I knew it properly), the easier the word placement and grammar came to me. In short, no, it's not impossible, but it takes a hell of a lot of work.

eyescreamcone

Esoteric_ wrote: »

No, it's not impossible. I did my lc in 2006 and I'm not fluent in Irish, but got my A1. I actually got an A2 in English, despite being fluent in that! :pac:

To be honest, it takes a hell of a lot of work. I studied Irish for about three hours each night, learned off hundreds, possibly thousands of verbs, sentences, stories and poems. I found that the more I wrote (I wrote out everything I learned by heart, to make sure I knew it properly), the easier the word placement and grammar came to me. In short, no, it's not impossible, but it takes a hell of a lot of work.

Do students who have gone to Irish speaking schools get much better grades in Irish than those who do not??
I would assume that they would, without having any stats to back this up.

Esoteric_

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Do
students who have gone to Irish speaking schools get much better grades
in Irish than those who do not??
I would assume that they would, without having any stats to back this
up.

I don't know, tbh. I never went to an Irish speaking school, but I have friends who did, and I did better than they did in the lc, in both English and Irish. I think it really comes down to how much work you put into it. I could survive in an all Irish school, despite not being fluent in it.

What I found important was learning to adapt anything asked in the oral exam to something that suited me to answer. I was asked about a dispute between two airlines, but said that I don't know much about the dispute, but used x airline when I went to London, then rattled on about London. It's all about talking continuously and coherently, not about what particular topic you discuss, for the oral.

yournerd

USE SAORBRITATHAR IN EVERYTHING!

Glee_GG

I got an A2 in the mocks (and these were corrected properly as my teacher got his friend who'd be a dept inspector to do them) and while i put in the work, i certainly wouldn't be spending hours on the subject or anything. I got 95/100 for my essay and i wasn't using any crazy hard irish and i don't think i used any briathar saor so theres no need to go over the top with them

whateverusay

getting an A1 is very manageable. there are a few people in my class that went to a gaelscoil and strangely, they do the worst in the class nearly. it just takes practise!!

Jade.

whateverusay wrote: »

getting an A1 is very manageable. there are a few people in my class that went to a gaelscoil and strangely, they do the worst in the class nearly. it just takes practise!!

There one person in my year who went to a gaelscoil and she's always boasting about how good she is at Irish when in reality she's one of the worst and always gets the lowest... It's weird ha :P

Sucette!

Jade. wrote: »

There one person in my year who went to a gaelscoil and she's always boasting about how good she is at Irish when in reality she's one of the worst and always gets the lowest... It's weird ha :P

I can agree with that! There's about 10 people in my class who went to the local Gaelscoil, and apart from the one or two exceptions, who are just naturally good at everything, the rest of the class gets better than them for some reason in written tests. I don't understand it!

Bazinga_N

People who went to the Gaelscoil didn't study Irish everyday, you know. They just spoke it everyday. They also had other subjects to do besides Irish.

Slow Show

Bazinga_N wrote: »

People who went to the Gaelscoil didn't study Irish everyday, you know. They just spoke it everyday. They also had other subjects to do besides Irish.

Did they really?? Shocking :eek:

Sorry for the sarcasm. But you just would kind of expect that people from a Gaelscoil would be above average. I think it's mainly because if you're speaking Irish casually you don't speak it perfectly, similar enough to us speaking English. Also most Gaelgoirs have no problem with inserting an English word here or there if necessary. I think that's probably why they fall down in the oral. I'd say if you were fairly fluent too you wouldn't be bothered using nathanna or fancy phrases and all that in the essay, or just studying Irish at all, so Paper 2 goes down as well.

Mcd2812

How difficult is it to do well in the Irish Oral Exam? How long does it usually last and can they ask difficult questions?

yournerd

I go to an all irish school and let me tell you I won't be happy with anything less than an A.

Leaving Cert Student

The oral is so hard to get an A in though no matter how good you are. It's marked really hard apparently. Nearly impossible to get near full marks on sraith or comhra. Poem is nice though

CookieMonster.x

We listened to the sample tapes from the department with the different grades and to be honest you don't need to have a huge range of vocabulary or be absolutely amazing at Irish to get an A. Just try to keep the conversation going and direct it to something you are comfortable speaking about.

Canard

What CookieMonster said. The oral isn't marked hard I don't think...I don't know what I got (of course), but I can tell you I said my name wrong in the intro! o_o Put the H in the wrong place, I'd been told it wrong for the entire time I learned Irish it seems, or else she mixed it up. Either way I know I got 207+ (and that would be if I'd scraped the A1). All I did was rote-learn the pictures (a painfully tedious but rewarding job) and make sure to drop in the conditional and free verbs before they ask you an awkward question on it.

The point of the oral being 40% is to bring up grades. It's there to help.

So yeah, despite messing up my name, asking a horribly constructed question on my sraith (cé atá ar an locht instead of cé leis an locht) and being interrupted because she thought I had rote-learned the conversation or something, I got on fine. Prepare better than that and you should be fine too. :P

Glee_GG

Leaving Cert Student wrote: »

The oral is so hard to get an A in though no matter how good you are. It's marked really hard apparently. Nearly impossible to get near full marks on sraith or comhra. Poem is nice though

Our teachers one of the dept inspectors and he says the complete opposite, he said that the willingness to have a conversation gets you so much further than your actual standard of Irish, and from,listening to last years tapes of people who got full marks,they certainly weren't fluent!

ChemHickey

Glee_GG wrote: »

Our teachers one of the dept inspectors and he says the complete opposite, he said that the willingness to have a conversation gets you so much further than your actual standard of Irish, and from,listening to last years tapes of people who got full marks,they certainly weren't fluent!

+1

If you are able to answer the question in a fluent, flowing manner which doesn't have too many mistakes, you will get on great. The oral is at the end of the day a conversation, it's not an interrogation.

And don't expect to be asked easy questions! In mine, once I finished the sraith pictúir and the questions were posed and answered, the first question she asked me was "D'fhreastal tú an Ghaeltacht cheana, nár fhreastal?" (Or something to that effect). I got no questions on my family, school, pastimes or anything which I "could have prepared" or the so call guaranteed topics. (I hadn't really prepared for the oral because I had a high standard of Irish anyways) Just don't be shocked if they don't ask you the easy questions. Neither orals I had for the LC were based on the easy questions at all (which sucked! :P ) but you just need to change your mindset, take a breath and talk naturally and fluently.

If anyone needs any oral/general Irish tips and help at all feel free to PM me! I'm more than happy to help.

leaveiton

Speaking as someone who did the oral last year, it's not incredibly difficult to do well in. You don't need a super level of vocabulary, just make sure you're not repeating the same things all the time, e.g. (and excuse any mistakes :P) "Is maith liom scoil. Tá an scoil go maith. Tá na daoine deas. Tá na múinteoirí deas." Obviously that isn't going to get you a lot of marks. Also if you speak confidently, you'll seem a lot more fluent.

The key really is to steer the conversation in the direction you want it to go. Anyone I know that was asked a difficult question last year was asked as a direct result of something they'd said. For example, the examiner asked me a very general, open question about school, and I said something about liking the school because there's a nice atmosphere, very little bullying, things like that. The examiner then said "You mentioned bullying - how do you think that bullying would affect someone?" Had to think on my feet a bit but came out with something decent, the examiner seemed happy enough and didn't ask me anything too difficult after that. They just want to see how you'd cope with something that you might not have prepared already.

I wouldn't have thought I was great at Irish, but I was able to make my oral go the way I wanted it to by mentioning a few things in passing and hoping the examiner would pick up on it, and it made it a lot easier. I got an A2 overall in my exams, and from looking at my papers I figured out that I had to have gotten at least 220 or so in the oral to get that grade overall. It's honestly not as bad as you think it's going to be. Go n-éirí an t-ádh libh!

Edit: I'll just second what ChemHickey said above, do not expect to be asked the easy, standard questions first! We had 2 examiners in my school, neither asked about family or a few other "obvious" topics. I got asked about it only when I mentioned my brother in one answer and the examiner went "Oh, tell me about your family." Most people weren't asked at all though.

bluejay14

Never just give a one or two word answer. Ever. Our teacher's prime example, that has turned into a source of much slagging in the class because it actually happened during one person's mock, is with a question like "An bhfuil suim agat sa spoirt?" Never just answer with "Nil" or any basic monosyllabic reply like that. Something along the lines of "Nil aon speis agam sa spoirt, chun a bheith macanta leat, ach ta nios mo duil agam i gcursai ceoil........." You've answered their question sufficiently and turned it to your advantage, while throwing in a nice little phrase at the same time.


According to her: 3 sentences denotes fluency in any language so it's not actually that much to ask. The examiner really couldn't care what you say as long as it makes sense.

Akarinn

Why even bother? Is Irish even accepted as a language in Uni?

Canard

Akarinn wrote: »

Why even bother? Is Irish even accepted as a language in Uni?

Irish is a matriculation requirement in almost all colleges in addition to a third language. I thought that was common knowledge?

ChemHickey

Akarinn wrote: »

Why even bother? Is Irish even accepted as a language in Uni?

Why bother aiming for an A1 in Irish? Personal satisfaction, the chance for 100 points, a target and a goal which you can strive for, boasting glory

yournerd

about 85% of my school got full marks in the oral

Akarinn

Irish is a matriculation requirement in almost all colleges in addition to a third language. I thought that was common knowledge?

From www.NUI.ie:

Generally speaking, anybody applying to an NUI institution who was born and had all their education in the Republic of Ireland must present Irish (achieving at least Grade D at Ordinary Level) for Matriculation purposes.

Its common knowledge alright, but only a D in Ordinary or higher is required. So really, if you don't want to put a strain on the other subjects which most likely matter then don't try and get an A1 in crappy Irish.

Why bother aiming for an A1 in Irish? Personal satisfaction, the chance for 100 points, a target and a goal which you can strive for, boasting glory

Ok, maybe the 100 points part, but ever so slightly... Boasting rights? haha.. good one, say that to anyone and youl be shunned..

ChemHickey

Akarinn wrote: »

crappy Irish.

Curious, what makes you say that?

Ok, maybe the 100 points part, but ever so slightly... Boasting rights? haha.. good one, say that to anyone and youl be shunned..

Why would you be shunned? Getting over 90% in any exam is a difficult task, especially one which involves an oral and aural aspect. It is a lot more difficult to get A1s in subjects than people think. An A1 in any subject takes time and dedication and shunning one away as if it is less worthy/valuable, and degrading another person's achievements is something of both immaturity and "meanness" (for lack of a better word).

Scuid Mhór

Akarinn wrote: »

From www.NUI.ie:

Its common knowledge alright, but only a D in Ordinary or higher is required. So really, if you don't want to put a strain on the other subjects which most likely matter then don't try and get an A1 in crappy Irish.



Ok, maybe the 100 points part, but ever so slightly... Boasting rights? haha.. good one, say that to anyone and youl be shunned..

You've never gone to the Gaelteacht, right?

shootie

I do ordinary level and I've gave up on it. I'd get a C with great effort due to my difficulty speaking the language. Much rather focus on big grades in my 6 other subjects and Japanese .

This is an interesting thread in my opinion.
It is difficult, I will say that but like other posters, my Irish has improved immensely from just writing it daily. I even found sample answers I wrote out for the Junior Cert and was able to correct grammatical errors.
As for doing well, I am going to compile a list of vocab that can be used across a wide range of the pros and filiocht. I think that is key; learning versatile phrases rather than lots of specific ones.
Also, there is a guy in my class who went to an Irish school and transferred yet he doesn't always get better grades than I do. My teacher says people in these schools tend to get too comfortable and make silly grammatical mistakes etc.

BrownBear11

Question for all you people that did well last year;

Do ye reckon it's better to answer more questions briefly or a answer fewer questions in more detail? Like, would it be better to, say, answer 10 questions with 3 sentences or 15 questions with 2 sentences, for example? I've done two mock orals this year and both examiners seemed eager to cut me off once I got as far as my third or fourth sentence. Did you all find this in your orals or how did your ones go? Loads of questions with short answers or fewer questions and longer answers?


Would you all say it's a good sign if they're asking more abstract topics? In other words, if, half way through my comhrá the examiner still hasn't moved beyond Mo Cheantar and Clann should I try to direct it towards something more difficult?


I'm reluctant to put much weight in the marks the mock examiners gave me because one of them was done in-house with a teacher I get on with so I reckon that was biased and I think the other was marked too easy, so whatever advice ye have would be much appreciated!

Canard

BrownBear11 wrote: »

Question for all you people that did well last year;

Do ye reckon it's better to answer more questions briefly or a answer fewer questions in more detail? Like, would it be better to, say, answer 10 questions with 3 sentences or 15 questions with 2 sentences, for example? I've done two mock orals this year and both examiners seemed eager to cut me off once I got as far as my third or fourth sentence. Did you all find this in your orals or how did your ones go? Loads of questions with short answers or fewer questions and longer answers?


Would you all say it's a good sign if they're asking more abstract topics? In other words, if, half way through my comhrá the examiner still hasn't moved beyond Mo Cheantar and Clann should I try to direct it towards something more difficult?


I'm reluctant to put much weight in the marks the mock examiners gave me because one of them was done in-house with a teacher I get on with so I reckon that was biased and I think the other was marked too easy, so whatever advice ye have would be much appreciated!

I'd say it's better to go into as much detail as you can, and when you feel you've a) given enough or b) run out of things to say, kinda conclude it by changing your tone or leave it hanging on something else you'd like to be asked about. They follow your lead. I was cut off in one question but I forget what it was. I was surprised because I didn't feel I was rambling, but I don't think I was penalised for it or anything.

Definitely a good sign, though mine didn't go too crazy - when I told her I wanted to study languages in college but mentioned that I wouldn't be keeping on Irish, something happened and I ended up having to explain how I still find it interesting and think that foreign people would find it interesting too. No healthcare scandal or any of that awful stuff some people seem to get. Keep it natural, but if you feel capable of making it harder, it's probably no harm to direct it that way.

I felt the same, in my second mock oral I got 220/240 and my own teacher had basically done it for me by rambling about how she went to this college and her husband went to that college, so I was nervous. But honestly it's a good indicator, the oral's not as hard as you might think.

BrownBear11

Patchy~ wrote: »

I'd say it's better to go into as much detail as you can, and when you feel you've a) given enough or b) run out of things to say, kinda conclude it by changing your tone or leave it hanging on something else you'd like to be asked about. They follow your lead. I was cut off in one question but I forget what it was. I was surprised because I didn't feel I was rambling, but I don't think I was penalised for it or anything.

Definitely a good sign, though mine didn't go too crazy - when I told her I wanted to study languages in college but mentioned that I wouldn't be keeping on Irish, something happened and I ended up having to explain how I still find it interesting and think that foreign people would find it interesting too. No healthcare scandal or any of that awful stuff some people seem to get. Keep it natural, but if you feel capable of making it harder, it's probably no harm to direct it that way.

I felt the same, in my second mock oral I got 220/240 and my own teacher had basically done it for me by rambling about how she went to this college and her husband went to that college, so I was nervous. But honestly it's a good indicator, the oral's not as hard as you might think.

Sound, thanks for that! I'll keep the examiner quiet so

Yeah but last year I got 220 in my mock oral and something like 160 in the real one ( ) so now I'm all skeptical :cool:

BrownBear11

BrownBear11 wrote: »

Sound, thanks for that! I'll keep the examiner quiet so

Yeah but last year I got 220 in my mock oral and something like 160 in the real one ( ) so now I'm all skeptical :cool:

I don't know if this is correct but oh well.
I did well in my mock oral (external examiner) and 5 minutes before I was still thinking in French!
Now my Irish is not great, but I enjoy having conversations. I think people don't consider it to be a conversation! Put in some personality to what you're saying; make it sound interesting.
If the examiner looks interested and is enjoying the conversation, I'm sure you will pick up the marks. It's the only way I think I did it :P

RedSeven7

Just finished an aiste entitled "Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam." I was dreading writing it but it turns out I'm rather passionate about ár dteanga dhúchais :pac:

I was just wondering does anyone know of any GOOD irish grammar books? Something with just everything in it, yano? I'm sick of the grammar section in Fiúntas!

Mise le meas

HPMS

RedSeven7 wrote: »

Just finished an aiste entitled "Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam." I was dreading writing it but it turns out I'm rather passionate about ár dteanga dhúchais :pac:

I was just wondering does anyone know of any GOOD irish grammar books? Something with just everything in it, yano? I'm sick of the grammar section in Fiúntas!

Mise le meas

I've never used it but all the teachers in the gaeltacht I went to got all their grammar stuff out of Gramadach Gan Stró" and it seems to be excellent!

randylonghorn

Akarinn wrote: »

Is Irish even accepted as a language in Uni?

O_O

Dear lord, they moved Meath over to the UK and no-one told me!

Not alone is it "accepted" as a language in all Irish universities, it's required for matriculation in most of them (an A1 is not required, admittedly) as has been pointed out. Even Trinity, while it does not make Irish mandatory for matriculation, accepts it to fulfill second language requirements in the same way as they accept French, Spanish, German, Russian, etc.

What's more, and if you're not sitting already, now may be a good time to do so, because you may find this shocking ... all the universities, again including Trinity, not only accept Irish as a language but they *teach* it as one!! :eek: All offer full degree courses in Irish, and students may continue to postgraduate study up to PhD level.

In fact ... and I know you probably think I've been on the gargle, or I'm just making this up to annoy you, but neither is true ... both Oxford and Cambridge Universities offer courses in Irish, though to the best of my knowledge they don't offer full degree courses in Irish.

Who would have imagined it?!! :pac:

spurious

RedSeven7 wrote: »

Just finished an aiste entitled "Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam." I was dreading writing it but it turns out I'm rather passionate about ár dteanga dhúchais :pac:

I was just wondering does anyone know of any GOOD irish grammar books? Something with just everything in it, yano? I'm sick of the grammar section in Fiúntas!

Mise le meas

If you have any relatives in their 50s, see do they have a book we had at school called 'Réchúrsa Gramadaí' by Brian Mac Giolla Phádraig - it has everything in it. It's worth a fortune now, but there must be 30 thousand copies or more out there in attics and old cupboards.