Should my boss know I'm looking elsewhere..?

A fella called fish

I'm lucky enough to have a job (before people start giving me that rubbish..) however I feel I'm quite good at it, am fully qualified/chartered etc etc but my employer is really taking the piss when it comes to my salary, and I know this from recent salary surveys and from friends of mine, less qualified who earn 10-15k more than me.

I'm sick of it now, have already asked the boss for a payrise and got the usual "oh but we have no more money" however, now they're talking about taking on 3 more engineers due to upcoming workload!! So..they cant afford to pay me the going rate but they can afford 3 more???!!! So f€uk this - I've decided that after 8 loyal years of crap, I'm outta here.

Should I let the boss know I'm looking for work by leaving hints around?! I.e the recruitment websites open on my screen for all to see - blatently take calls from recruiters on my mobile in the office...etc in the hope that my boss offers me money to stay?!

Ideally I would stay if the money improved, but at this stage I don't really give a ballix

P_1

A fella called fish wrote: »

I'm lucky enough to have a job (before people start giving me that rubbish..) however I feel I'm quite good at it, am fully qualified/chartered etc etc but my employer is really taking the piss when it comes to my salary, and I know this from recent salary surveys and from friends of mine, less qualified who earn 10-15k more than me.

I'm sick of it now, have already asked the boss for a payrise and got the usual "oh but we have no more money" however, now they're talking about taking on 3 more engineers due to upcoming workload!! So..they cant afford to pay me the going rate but they can afford 3 more???!!! So f€uk this - I've decided that after 8 loyal years of crap, I'm outta here.

Should I let the boss know I'm looking for work by leaving hints around?! I.e the recruitment websites open on my screen for all to see - blatently take calls from recruiters on my mobile in the office...etc in the hope that my boss offers me money to stay?!

Ideally I would stay if the money improved, but at this stage I don't really give a ballix

Don't do this!!! It takes away any possible bargaining chip that you might ever want to use.

Boombastic

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dwork

A fella called fish wrote: »

I'm lucky enough to have a job (before people start giving me that rubbish..) however I feel I'm quite good at it, am fully qualified/chartered etc etc but my employer is really taking the piss when it comes to my salary, and I know this from recent salary surveys and from friends of mine, less qualified who earn 10-15k more than me.

I'm sick of it now, have already asked the boss for a payrise and got the usual "oh but we have no more money" however, now they're talking about taking on 3 more engineers due to upcoming workload!! So..they cant afford to pay me the going rate but they can afford 3 more???!!! So f€uk this - I've decided that after 8 loyal years of crap, I'm outta here.

Should I let the boss know I'm looking for work by leaving hints around?! I.e the recruitment websites open on my screen for all to see - blatently take calls from recruiters on my mobile in the office...etc in the hope that my boss offers me money to stay?!

Ideally I would stay if the money improved, but at this stage I don't really give a ballix

Think I might see your problem right there. I wouldn't give a lad whose work was crap a raise either. No matter how loyal he was.

Nelson Muntz

A fella called fish wrote: »

Should I let the boss know I'm looking for work by leaving hints around?! I.e the recruitment websites open on my screen for all to see - blatently take calls from recruiters on my mobile in the office...etc in the hope that my boss offers me money to stay?!

Ideally I would stay if the money improved, but at this stage I don't really give a ballix

If you do this, the most likely outcome is that you will be sacked & have no job. You have asked for a payrise & been knocked back. Now it's up to you. Either settle for your current pay or leave but I wouldn't give my boss the chance to make things difficult by telling him I was leaving until I been offered another job.

A fella called fish

Interesting. Thanks lads. I'm too annoyed to see this clearly for myself at the moment.

Makes sense having seeing it written down.

lkionm

Probably best to not tell him you are looking at his ass.

lkionm

On a serious note. As long as you are doing your job to the letter, they cant fire you.

Im sure your boss wont care if you want to leave especially after not giving you a payrise. He would probably do the same.
He should probably know you are not happy there and looking around.

Seachmall

A fella called fish wrote: »

So..they cant afford to pay me the going rate but they can afford 3 more???!!!

Yes, because with the new workload those engineers will presumably pay for themselves. And depending on your role giving you an increase may actually negate any benefit you provide to the company (financially speaking).


Quit if you want, confront your boss if you want. But don't be a child about it by leaving "hints".

michellie

No don't, it won't do any good. Your boss is clearly not going to give you a raise. By you showing him your looking for a job will just make your time there difficult.(god knows you could be looking for a new job ages)

I'm in a similar position, my hours were cut a year ago, no sign of getting those hours back(i have asked) I am searching for a new better job. But I will keep it to myself, because I have been searching ages now.

lkionm

If you are friendly with him- tell him, he might be able to swing something if he is friendly with you.

If ye dont get on- dont tell him.

Simple.

Mickey H

A fella called fish wrote: »

I'm lucky enough to have a job (before people start giving me that rubbish..) however I feel I'm quite good at it, am fully qualified/chartered etc etc but my employer is really taking the piss when it comes to my salary, and I know this from recent salary surveys and from friends of mine, less qualified who earn 10-15k more than me.

I'm sick of it now, have already asked the boss for a payrise and got the usual "oh but we have no more money" however, now they're talking about taking on 3 more engineers due to upcoming workload!! So..they cant afford to pay me the going rate but they can afford 3 more???!!! So f€uk this - I've decided that after 8 loyal years of crap, I'm outta here.

Should I let the boss know I'm looking for work by leaving hints around?! I.e the recruitment websites open on my screen for all to see - blatently take calls from recruiters on my mobile in the office...etc in the hope that my boss offers me money to stay?!

Ideally I would stay if the money improved, but at this stage I don't really give a ballix

Do your job hunting at home. Job hunting should be done on your time, not the company's time.

Cunning Alias

Im kind of in the same situation myself. I have been advised to get a new job first before I let my boss know. At that point they will probably offer something to stay.

A workmate just finished up this week and when he gave his notice they asked about the new position to see if they could match it.

I will never tell them anything before I have a new job waiting for me.

KT10

Do not tell him you're looking elsewhere, wait until you've gotten an offer and hand in your notice, if they want to keep you, they'll ask what will it take. If you''re looking for an additional €15k ask for more, say €18k, they'll come back with a counter offer below this but you've left some breathing room.

If you do leave, be adult about it, complete or handover all your work as best you can, I'd advise against burning any bridges, you never know where you'll be in a few years time and its always better to have left on good terms.

Rabidlamb

OP you wont find your true worth until you hand in your notice.
Just make sure you have another job lined up.

I remember almost doubling my salary back in 2001 when my current employer & new employer got into a bidding war.
I'd asked for a rise 4 weeks previous & was told there's was nothing they could do.
It's the ultimate tool to sharpen your bosses attention to your work & worth.

Stheno

KT10 wrote: »

Do not tell him you're looking elsewhere, wait until you've gotten an offer and hand in your notice, if they want to keep you, they'll ask what will it take. If you''re looking for an additional €15k ask for more, say €18k, they'll come back with a counter offer below this but you've left some breathing room.

If you do leave, be adult about it, complete or handover all your work as best you can, I'd advise against burning any bridges, you never know where you'll be in a few years time and its always better to have left on good terms.

Personally I think that once you get to the point that you actually go to an interview, you have committed yourself to leaving your current job.

I'm doing the same at the moment, and am 99.99% certain that nothing my current employers will offer will negate my desire to leave the company.

If they did, and I accepted, I'd feel trapped, next time I resigned they'd try the same incentive, which are almost always financial but never about the people or process, I'm leaving due to the last two, and I'll be very sorry for my immediate boss if it happens, and hope it might give senior management a kick up the ass, as I'm senior enough, but if I resign, I'll do it intending to go through with it.

Not one of my three top reasons for leaving has to do with pay though. I have told my closer day to day manager that I am very unhappy and warned him if things don't improve then I will leave, in the area I work in, he knows it's easy to get a new job, so he should have taken it seriously.

Cookie_Monster

Tell them they are undervaluing you and you are looking elsewhere as a result and it's entirely their fault.

What type of engineering?

ToxicPaddy

I've been in a similar situation in a previous job. My boss always had positive things to say about my work, he always received positive feedback from other depts also. However when it came to review time, the money never came. He always played the poor card.

After about 3 years of this I was getting very fed up and then out of the blue he announced that they were recruiting another person for our dept doing pretty similar work to mine.

However I saw the job spec and the salary range as he left it sitting on a desk in the room one day and the salary range started at 9k a year more than I was on. Needless to say I was pissed off.

However I said nothing, kept it to myself and started looking elsewhere.

The guy he brought in was a lazy git who did f*ck all but who also just happened to be a mate of his.

About 8 months after looking I found a really decent job and handed in my notice. My boss was seriously shocked but that turned to embarrassment when I laid out my reasons for leaving and the salary difference being a major one as I felt I was being taken advantage of and didn't appreciate it after all the extra hours Id worked for him as a favour etc. However I wished him luck and left on good terms.

He tried to offer me more money, overtime etc, however I politely refused just reminding him that you never really appreciate a good thing until its gone. And he did, cause as soon as his buddy realised that he would have to start doing some work, he lasted about 2 months before he left and it went downhill after that.

My advice OP, look on the quiet, find a new job and leave on good terms as you'll need references in the future. Why burn bridges unnecessarily?? You never gain from this method and Ireland is a very small place where a bad rep will follow you.

OwenM

After 8 years you are institutionalised in your workplace and professionally you would benefit from a move. I would not be open to accepting counter offers if I were you.

When interviewing with potential employers, remember, you nearly always never get the salary you ask for. Budget for this.

Make sure you factor in cost of commuting, re old v's new workplace.

Health insurance as a perk is valuable.

Bonuses are not valuable, you are not guaranteed your bonus, you are guaranteed your salary.

the culture of deference

Do not tell them you are looking for a new job.

You are in a difficult position, 8 loyal years in the job is a sure way for management to know you aren't going anywhere. Therefore you have no bargaining power.

You need to ask yourself what will happen if you get a new job, will you take it, the new salary is always negotiated in regards to the old.

BBDBB

if you do get into a bidding war over your services, biggest tip I can give you is say very little...even if he makes an offer..........................................just let the silence hang in the air.......a) it gives you thinking time and b) the pressure is still on him and you never know he may increase it without being asked

(I once doubled a fee because I kept my gob shut........the reason I did was because I simply didnt have an answer to give him straight away) its a bit different with an employer/boss but the principle is the same

RoryMurphyJnr

wouldn't say a word until you're sorted with a new job if it goes that way.

As as for the I'm lucky to have a job before people start that crap, that really annoys the sh1t out of me.
You ain't lucky to have a job you are as you say fully qualified/chartered so I presume you studied in school and college passed exams to get those qualifications.
That ain't luck that's called hard graft.

sbsquarepants

OwenM wrote: »

When interviewing with potential employers, remember, you nearly always never get the salary you ask for. Budget for this.
.

:eek:
A good rule of thumb is that 3/4 of the time you always get what you want, but the other 2 halves you don't, unless you do of course.:D

Drakares

michellie wrote: »

No don't, it won't do any good. Your boss is clearly not going to give you a raise. By you showing him your looking for a job will just make your time there difficult.

Nonsense.

I was in the same position a year ago. Gave out shíte about my salary, they swore blind they just couldn't afford it. A few weeks later, I handed in my notice having been offered another job and I got an €8,000 payrise on the spot, ended up staying and happy out.

ejmaztec

You can have all the qualifications in the world, but if you're doormat material, or don't get on with the boss 100% for some odd reason, you're screwed.

I worked with someone who was highly qualified, and I just happened to be discussing some job with the boss when he walked into the room.

Boss "Whadya want Mike?"
Mike "Just a quick question, any chance of a rise?"
Boss "To give you a quick answer, No!"

"Mike" was gone a month later.

stateofflux

lkionm wrote: »

On a serious note. As long as you are doing your job to the letter, they cant fire you.

Im sure your boss wont care if you want to leave especially after not giving you a payrise. He would probably do the same.
He should probably know you are not happy there and looking around.

there is always a way a company can get rid of you if they want.

OP, Do not say anything until you have an iron clad offer... bird in the hand and all that jazz

TwoShedsJackson

A fella called fish wrote: »

Should I let the boss know I'm looking for work by leaving hints around?! I.e the recruitment websites open on my screen for all to see - blatently take calls from recruiters on my mobile in the office...etc in the hope that my boss offers me money to stay?!

Yes, please do. And let us know how that goes.

Mr Benevolent

I was given more and more responsibility in my job so I asked for a 15% raise - boss said no, but they'd review it in the coming months. In the meantime he guaranteed I'd get my full bonus each year (about 5%). I was happy enough with that, at least he made an effort in my direction.

KT10

Stheno wrote: »

Personally I think that once you get to the point that you actually go to an interview, you have committed yourself to leaving your current job.

I'm doing the same at the moment, and am 99.99% certain that nothing my current employers will offer will negate my desire to leave the company.

While I take your point, I would argue that due to the circumstances you list below, you're the exception, not the rule. I watched a co-worker in a previous role who had been denied a raise, walk into the bosses office and say he'd gotten another job, it went to the board and 24 hours later he was €20k a year better off.

Stheno wrote: »

If they did, and I accepted, I'd feel trapped, next time I resigned they'd try the same incentive, which are almost always financial but never about the people or process,

Again, I think you're the exception, not the rule, are you saying you wouldn't take the slightest bit of pleasure in forcing your company to give you the raise you'd been previously denied?

How would you feel trapped by the way? Unless they make you sign a contract stating you'll give them at least X number of months (usually a year or 2) before they release you from said contract, I don't see where the feeling of being trapped comes into it?

Stheno wrote: »

I'm leaving due to the last two, and I'll be very sorry for my immediate boss if it happens, and hope it might give senior management a kick up the ass, as I'm senior enough, but if I resign, I'll do it intending to go through with it. Not one of my three top reasons for leaving has to do with pay though. I have told my closer day to day manager that I am very unhappy and warned him if things don't improve then I will leave, in the area I work in, he knows it's easy to get a new job, so he should have taken it seriously.

And this ladies and gentlemen, is a very important point, that money isn't the be all and end all, there are some jobs where the money is simply not worth the grief.

I'll admit, in a previous role I was extremely unhappy, my pay was cut, bonus gone etc. but I understood the entire country was going through similar circumstances. Compounding this though was the extra work load and the people (person really) I had to work with, I felt very angry and unappriciated in my job (despite being quite good at it).

In the end I did leave for another job, I was offered more money to stay but I simply couldn't continue in that environment so I left, which kind of re-inforces Sthenos initial point which I argued against, but again, I believe people shouldn't think along the lines of 'they've already decided to leave if they've gone for the interview', I think they should see it as validation, that Company B value them to the point they've made an offer that betters their situation with their current employer, Company A.

A counter offer from Company A should also be seen as validation, that the company wants to hold on to the staff member (if they didn't, they wouldn't put up a fight) but what people forget is its all about the bottom line for businesses, maximum profit, minimal losses. They're not your mate, they're not doing you a favour giving you a paycheck, and if they can get away with paying you €20k a year less then a similarily quailified person, thats €20k profit for them that can be used elsewhere (including going towards their own bonus etc.)

I will stand and applaud anyone with the courage to say "F*ck this" and go out and try to put themselves in a better situation financially or otherwise, and if you end up staying on for more money, I still applaud you for taking the higher ups to task.

Also, lunch is on you that day.

Ush1

Be honest and say to your boss that my money situation is an issue and I'll have to start looking elsewhere or just go look elsewhere and go for interviews and when you get an offer say to him if he doesn't match it you're moving on.

tin79

Go for interviews. When you get offered a new job and have confirmation of offer or contract then talk to him.

If he counter offers then great, If not say goodbye.

kylith

tin79 wrote: »

Go for interviews. When you get offered a new job and have confirmation of offer or contract then talk to him.

If he counter offers then great, If not say goodbye.

This.

Don't tell him, or leave blatant hints that you're looking for something else. This might leave you vulnerable to any downsizing he might think of doing. Wait until you have a job offer then tell him you've been offered a job with X salary, but if he matches it you'll stay. He will then think you've been headhunted and your relative value to him will increase.

Tar.Aldarion

the culture of deference wrote: »

Do not tell them you are looking for a new job.

You are in a difficult position, 8 loyal years in the job is a sure way for management to know you aren't going anywhere. Therefore you have no bargaining power.

You need to ask yourself what will happen if you get a new job, will you take it, the new salary is always negotiated in regards to the old.

You can say you made however much you want, you can deal with tax yourself without handing them anything and often the low range for new jobs is higher than what people may be earning.