Broadband tax for those without broadband

clohamon

Recommendations for implementation of broadcasting charge expected end of March

Ireland's Communications Minister Pat Rabbitte, TD, stated today in the Dáil that his department is currently reviewing a proposal to impose a broadcasting charge on all homes, regardless of whether they have a television or not.

The proposed broadcasting charge has been a subject of debate for some time now and, if implemented, will replace the current TV licensing system.

In a previous Dáil debate on the matter, Rabbitte said all households and businesses will be subject to this charge, except in specific cases where they are exempted. It was suggested that current exemptions for pensioners and those in receipt of the Household Benefits Package would still apply.

“Publicly funded public service broadcasting and content are now available to everyone on an ever-increasing range of platforms and devices [...] and, in fact, access is not dependent on the ownership of a device,” said Rabbitte. “In short, everyone benefits from the availability of these services, regardless of how content is accessed or relayed to the public, and, therefore, it is my view that the cost should be borne by society as a whole.”

More than a year since this statement in the Dáil, Rabbitte today stated that a report on the proposal will be ready next month. “My department is currently carrying out a Value for Money Policy Review conducted by an independently chaired group on the proposed policy,” he said. “I expect to receive a copy of the group’s recommendations and report for my consideration by the end of March.”

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/31647-recommendations-for/

watty

The TV licence was always just a tax. They wanted to levy TV licence in 1950s, 10 years before RTE TV started!

Very few people don't have TV.

But RTE needs reformed and also BCI. There is no accountability or transparency and BCI decisions (and lack of them) are Bizarre.

Ban RTE from Adverts on Radio (or at least only between programs) and make 2FM have all the phone ins and Music on RTE1 and no mainstream pop. They are a Publicly funded PSB. Lets have a more PSB like station, especially on Radio which is cheap.

Simply changing the TV licence into a general tax is unacceptable till BCI, Comerg and RTE are reformed and sorted out.

Many people can't get decent radio and many will be deprived of Digital TV due to GOVERNMENT and Comreg inaction and policies.

Get your "house" in order Minister and then make the proposal!

Also Admit NBS is a lie and RBS a sham.

Mobile and Satellite are not Broadband.

More than 50% of people on DSL don't get a good enough service and only bring fibre closer to them will fix it. Less than 15% of people on DSL can get more than 15Mbps, 30Mbps is a minimum on Cable.

We have a digital divide.

Forget Satellite, 3G, HSPA, LTE, 4G and 5G. Where is a credible Broadband policy?

tony81

Op, you know full well it's not a broadband tax.

It's packaged as a broadcasting charge to cover rte services whether broadcast by radio, tv transmitter, internet or satellite.

Yes, it's an unfair tax to prop up a bloated organisation which couldn't survive on a commercial basis and full of overpaid staff and presenters. Criticise that fact instead of trying to put a spin on it.

Your argument actually undermines the argument that the tv licence/broadcast charge is unfair, or (what i believe is the purpose of this forum) to lobby for improved availability of quality, affordable broadband services.

watty

The OP only quoted Silicon Republic.

A PSB isn't supposed to be able to be commercial.

tony81

watty wrote: »

The OP only quoted Silicon Republic.

Yes, but the op's title of "broadband tax" is pure spin and not mentioned in the article.

bealtine

tony81 wrote: »

Yes, but the op's title of "broadband tax" is pure spin and not mentioned in the article.

Well the way it's being spun by government sure makes it sounds like a tax on broadband...

Seems to me the spin goes like this : People who don't have TVs get their tv content via their broadband connections and watch things like rte player, so therefore they need to pay a licence fee.

Logically that sounds like if you don't have a TV you are obviously watching TV over the internet so we want to tax that too. If you don't have a TV or broadband you'll still need to pay the tax, so it's in reality just a tax, but the logic being used to spin the whole thing is really broadband.

clohamon

tony81 wrote: »

Op, you know full well it's not a broadband tax.

Leaving aside those who receive satellite/terrestrial TV and who already pay the licence, the underlying assumption is that everybody/everywhere else could alternatively receive multi-room, multi-channel HD streaming from their internet connection, and that every home/person in Ireland has such a connection. They don't, but this measure only affects them and, from what we know, does so indiscriminately.

tony81

clohamon wrote: »

Leaving aside those who receive satellite/terrestrial TV and who already pay the licence, the underlying assumption is that everybody/everywhere else could alternatively receive multi-room, multi-channel HD streaming from their internet connection, and that every home/person in Ireland has such a connection. They don't, but this measure only affects them and, from what we know, does so indiscriminately.

Multi-channel hd streaming? No, it doesn't assume that at all, any more than the current tv licence assumes you are viewing in hd on a 50" screen. In fact if you have a 10" black and white tv that can't receive digital tv you are still liable for a tv licence..

So now they're assuming that most households have a tv, and those that don't have at least one other device that is capable of receiving a broadcast (mobile phone, tablet, pc.. Whether Broadband or dialup). A fair assumption in my opinion.

listermint

tony81 wrote: »

Multi-channel hd streaming? No, it doesn't assume that at all, any more than the current tv licence assumes you are viewing in hd on a 50" screen. In fact if you have a 10" black and white tv that can't receive digital tv you are still liable for a tv licence..

So now they're assuming that most households have a tv, and those that don't have at least one other device that is capable of receiving a broadcast (mobile phone, tablet, pc.. Whether Broadband or dialup). A fair assumption in my opinion.

Pat, where did you come up with the Username ?

tony81

listermint wrote: »

Pat, where did you come up with the Username ?

Guys i'm against the tv licence. I'd love nothing more than to cut rte's funding by 100% and watch as they flail and strike while pat kenny moans he's not able to put fillet steaks on the table.

Personally i don't pay the tv licence and a charge using the property charge collection system would be a disaster for me.

I just think this thread is daft. Take the population of ireland. Subtract the number of people who live in a household without a television. Deduct from that the number who also don't have dsl, 3g, or another means of accessing the internet to watch rte's programmes. Then deduct the number of people who can't access rte's other types of broadcast such as radio and rte.ie.

The real argument isn't the availability of rte. It's the value for money rte represents. It's like this thread is arguing rte are doing such a great job in terms of programming that their remit should be to make their dross available to everyone.

listermint

tony81 wrote: »

Guys i'm against the tv licence. I'd love nothing more than to cut rte's funding by 100% and watch as they flail and strike while pat kenny moans he's not able to put fillet steaks on the table.

Personally i don't pay the tv licence and a charge using the property charge collection system would be a disaster for me.

I just think this thread is daft. Take the population of ireland. Subtract the number of people who live in a household without a television. Deduct from that the number who also don't have dsl, 3g, or another means of accessing the internet to watch rte's programmes. Then deduct the number of people who can't access rte's other types of broadcast such as radio and rte.ie.

The real argument isn't the availability of rte. It's the value for money rte represents. It's like this thread is arguing rte are doing such a great job in terms of programming that their remit should be to make their dross available to everyone.

I dont think you get the premise of the thread...

tony81

listermint wrote: »

I dont think you get the premise of the thread...

I'd say the same of you.

listermint

tony81 wrote: »

I'd say the same of you.

Im sorry but your wrong. I get it fully. Mr Rabbite has wanted to develop some form of manner of taxing the internet for a while now. He is trying to do this under the guise of evolving the existing TV license.

Along with his cohort Sherlock. The two lads havent a clue.

Demonstrate some reforms within these organisations and you may see some people more willing to accept it. But as it stands its taxing the internet because he assumes everyone uses RTE material.

tony81

listermint wrote: »

But as it stands its taxing the internet because he assumes everyone uses RTE material.

Nope, he's taxing the internet with the weak argument that rte content is accessible to everyone. He's right to assume this, but wrong to tax it.

croo

I don't have a TV - the only access to the internet available to me is 3g which is not sufficient to stream Live TV... it continually stutters. It seems to me the argument is that because those responsible cannot manage the collection of fees from those using the service everyone should pay.

But the truth is, IF Rabbitte wanted to ensure those who gain from RTE pay they could paywall their websites and (with the introduction of saorview) they could have used a card system similar to Sky to ensure that only those how paid could watch.

But that's not the goal... Rabbitte is a politician and as such his key advertiser is RTE - with their endless talk programs. He, and all politicians, need the whole population to pay for this because if rte did introduce the simple mechanisms to ensure payment then the simple truth is few would bother... so if Rabbitte and his ilk are to continue to receive free advertising he must ensure it's funded and forcing all to pay another tax is the approach that suits him best.

Will not benefit his party long term? I doubt it, as I suspect Labour will follow the faith of the greens in the next election.

If he ensured everyone had access to real broadband then that would be worth paying for... but he won't, the money will just go into the bottomless pit.

watty

A card system is evil. Far far worse. Wash your mouth out.

croo

watty wrote: »

A card system is evil. Far far worse. Wash your mouth out.

Why?

watty

Only approved receivers,
most of the money goes to card company
Too easily switched off by foreign company.
No USB sticks and only Windows on expensive PC cards.

Read Greg Dyke's speech about why being on NDS card / sky/ Solus scheme was only a temporary expedient for the BBC.

It's the most evil thing you can do to PSB broadcasting and means no Free To Air.

You might as well suggest you are only allowed to have DRM music on Linux and only with MS supplied listening card.

croo

watty wrote: »

Only approved receivers,
most of the money goes to card company
Too easily switched off by foreign company.
No USB sticks and only Windows on expensive PC cards.

Saorview (the irony of it!) has approved receivers now or not?
I don't get the foreign company bit?

watty wrote: »

Read Greg Dyke's speech about why being on NDS card / sky/ Solus scheme was only a temporary expedient for the BBC.

You don't have link? there are lots of references to Greg Dyke so google wasn't terribly helpful.

watty wrote: »

It's the most evil thing you can do to PSB broadcasting and means no Free To Air.

I don't see a whole lot of PS in the RTE offering. Some perhaps but I've managed to survive without it. As for Free to Air well that's the whole point isn't it... it's not free! Personally I think rte is a waste of money and while I had the choice to ignore it it didn't matter to me. If people chose to use it by all means they can pay for it but I object to the removal of choice. I don't really care how (card or otherwise) they do that but just charging everyone does not seem like a equitable solution to me... I prefer the ensure people who use the service pay instead... hell if if they could guarantee access with universal broadband that would be something.

watty wrote: »

You might as well suggest you are only allowed to have DRM music on Linux and only with MS supplied listening card.

I don't see the parallels. If I wanted I could have DRM'd music - I choose linux over apple/windows because it offers me choice. This proposal is to remove my choice - the card is one possible way for rte/Doc to enforce people to pay for their choice rather than remove my choice.

I think a big difference in our opinion here is I place no value on rte - whether I have it or not does not matter to me. But Rabbitte is forcing me put a value on it.

Ted_YNWA

If this is a broadcasting charge, can every company who operates in the market claim from this pot of money?

Can TV3 and local radio stations get money from it, or is this purely for RTE ?

bealtine

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

If this is a broadcasting charge, can every company who operates in the market claim from this pot of money?

Can TV3 and local radio stations get money from it, or is this purely for RTE ?

rte only (so far) but tv3 are making a lot of noise about getting their hands on a slice of the pie...

watty

TV3, TG4 and stupidly Setanta all get from the TV licence.

TV3's licence was on the BASIS of ONLY getting commercial income, they do not have the PSB "liabilities" and "responsibilities" of RTE & TG4 and RnaG, as can be seen from output.

If TV3 can't make money at it they should quit and give back the licence.

As Setanta is a pay TV channel not even on Terrestrial I can't even begin to understand BCI's logic in giving them money from the TV licence.

cgarvey

Gone way OT. Continue the (valid) discussion in Terrestrial or Broadcasting if y'all want.