Regional forum rules.

locum-motion

Some people seem to post in regional forums about topics that would be more suited to the topics own forum. Today someone asked in the Louth forum about how to get a part for their garage door. I reported the post, suggesting that it might get a better response in the DIY forum.

What concerns me is that sometimes people seem to post in a regional forum in order to circumvent the charter of the other forums. I'm a regular poster in 'Louth' and a former moderator on 'Health Sciences'. I used to regularly see posts being allowed on 'Louth' that would be closed and infracted on 'Health Sciences'.
A question such as 'Can you recommend a physio in Dundalk?' wouldn't be allowed in HS, but I've seen them being allowed in regional forums. The HS mods (experts in their area), have decided that recommendations of healthcare professionals are problematic, so in my opinion that rule should extend into the regional forums too.
What reminded me of this was a request in Louth today for a recommendation for a solicitor. This piqued my curiosity as to whether 'Legal Discussion' had a similar rule to HS. The rule there seems to be that if a poster says they need a lawyer, then a lawyer is permitted to offer their own services via PM, but not on thread. Surely in this case, the LD forum's rule should apply in the regional forum too, shouldn't it?

Here's a hypothetical example; the rugby forum has banned 'Sexton v O'Gara' threads because they alway descend into slagging matches. What would happen if a poster asked in the Galway forum "So do Galway people think Sexton or O'Gara is better?"

I would respectfully suggest that a rule such as the following should be added across all of the regional forums:

This forum is for posts relating to [region]. However, some posts here will also have a secondary topic, and sometimes that topic will also have its own forum on here.
In those cases, the post here will be expected to follow the same rules as it would have to follow in the other forum, if it were posted there.
The [region] forum is not a loophole to get you out of the rules of another forum.

What do you think?

MugMugs

I think that Sexton is clearly the better Fly Half!


I don't think these posts are made to circumvent other forums rules. Those topics may well descend into chaos on the home forums because of the volume of people knowledgeable on the topic there and the inevitable conflicting views whereas the query in the regional forums would be more local and as such, not just innocent but looking for another locals opinion. I can't see how any boards rules (no legal advice or medical advice) have been broken in those threads you refer to!

Orion

I've moved threads from Parenting looking for a service is a particular location - not because of breach of charter but that the region forum is a better choice. I would think that asking in Dublin County/Louth/Galway etc you are more likely to get the information you need when it contains people from that area rather than HS/Parenting/etc which may or may not have regulars who live in those areas.

The hypothetical example you give could be purely to bypass the Rugby forums but I'd take circumstances into consideration. E.g if the poster has 99% of his posts in Galway and never posted in Rugby it's unlikely to be a troll but if it's someone who lives in the Rugby forum and posts this in Galway it's bye-bye thread.

Ken.

Someone needing (for example) a mechanic is better off posting in the regional forum than motors. Ask a question in kildare forum "Anyone know a good mechanic in or near Newbridge?" will get you answers within a few miles of Newbridge. Ask the same thing in Motors and you'll get answers for mechanics all over the country most of which wouldn't be within 30 miles of Newbridge.

I think in similar circumstances,no matter what profession your inquiring about might be better in regional forums.

P_1

TBH I think that the last thing that this site needs is more rules.

The Hill Billy

Hi locum-motion - Thanks for the feedback...

There is quite an amount of cross-over between the Regional forums & those dedicated to specific activities/interests. This is inevitable.

As mentioned by MugMugs above - the examples provided don't really appear to be problematic to me.

Also, what I think you are suggesting would cause a massive overhead on the Regional forum mods. The implication is that the regional mods would need to potentially familiarise themselves with the charters of every other forum on boards & try to enforce those charters in their own forums. This is just not possible, nor is it desirable to put such constraints on posters.

Each forum has its own charter for its own reasons. We have the site guidelines for helping posters & mods understand what is generally acceptable & not acceptable across the site.

On the other hand - if people are abusing regional forums to circumvent charter rules of other forums - we usually spot this behaviour this pretty quickly.

Taking the rugby analogy for example - personally, I would not see this as a 'local' issue & I would move the thread to Rubgy. Once moved to the Rugby forum I would report a post in the thread & note that the thread had been moved there from 'Xyz' regional forum. This brings the thread to the attention of the local mods who can then take action as necessary based on their expert knowledge of their forum's charter. This is commonly done by the Regional mods.

Ken.

The Hill Billy wrote: »

On the other hand - if people are abusing regional forums to circumvent charter rules of other forums - we usually spot this behaviour this pretty quickly.

What do you mean by this?. I don't understand it.

P_1

ken wrote: »

What do you mean by this?. I don't understand it.

To use the rugby example, the ROG v Sexton debate has been banned on the rugby forum, somebody decides they want to talk about it and start a thread on it on the Dublin forum to get around the ban on the rugby forum

nesf

With Political discussion, the Politics forum is about national issues or local issues receiving national coverage (broadly speaking, there will always be exceptions). If I started posting asking people's opinions of some backbench TD from a low population area in the main Politics forum I'd have a dead thread, if I did it on the correct Regional forum it might be an interesting discussion. During elections especially quite a bit of discussion seems to go on in the Regional forums about individual candidates alongside discussion in the main Politics forums.

I really fail to see the problem with this. If I want to specifically discuss Cork City political issues I'm not going to do it in the Politics forum.

locum-motion

Thanks all for the inputs.

Squeaky the Squirrel

locum-motion wrote: »

Some people seem to post in regional forums about topics that would be more suited to the topics own forum. Today someone asked in the Louth forum about how to get a part for their garage door. I reported the post, suggesting that it might get a better response in the DIY forum.

What concerns me is that sometimes people seem to post in a regional forum in order to circumvent the charter of the other forums. I'm a regular poster in 'Louth' and a former moderator on 'Health Sciences'. I used to regularly see posts being allowed on 'Louth' that would be closed and infracted on 'Health Sciences'.
A question such as 'Can you recommend a physio in Dundalk?' wouldn't be allowed in HS, but I've seen them being allowed in regional forums. The HS mods (experts in their area), have decided that recommendations of healthcare professionals are problematic, so in my opinion that rule should extend into the regional forums too.

Isin't HS the problem here and not the regional Forums?

tbh

Squeaky the Squirrel wrote: »

Isin't HS the problem here and not the regional Forums?

well, in a sense, yes, but in another more practical sense, no. I was involved with the modding of the sci forums when the rule was implemented, and I think I could offer an explanation as to why things is the way they is.

Essentially it comes down to visibility and traffic. As a user of the HS forums myself, including the dental forum, I would argue strongly that the main benefit to boards users to having those forums is that I should be able to say "I need a dentist/doctor/whatever, can anyone make any suggestions?"

The problem as a moderator, however, is that allowing that question to be asked leads to two problems - one is that we have no control over who is making the recommendations. The dental issues mods have to remove shills posting on thread every day and so for example, we don't know who's reading the threads and, worse, sending PMs. Another example is that of a weight loss clinic in Ireland who's publicity person took it upon themselves to create multiple accounts, and post as those accounts in the gastric banding thread and then, having established themselves as regular joes and offering advice to themselves, PM'ing genuine users and shilling the clinic they worked for. Very insidious.

The second problem is that if we allow users to say "this guy is really good", then in the interests of balance we also have to allow users to say "you know what, I didn't think that guy was really good", and that leads us down the slippery slope of libel threats. Again, if you think I'm exaggerating let me cite the example of the practice nurse who was fired by her employer for stealing and logged in the next day to claim, supposedly as a customer of the practice, that the medical staff at the practice weren't qualified to carry out the procedures that they were carrying out.

Now, that's a really serious, and really fake allegation and thankfully the owners of the practice were very understanding and worked with us, at the time, to resolve it.

So now we come down to the question of why it's ok for the regional forums and not HS. And the answer is simple: visibility.

It's natural that if someone is looking to shill for or slander a dentist, they'll go to the dental forum. If they want to shill or slander for a doctor, they'll go to the health science forum. Those are forum who's members are grouped by interest, so we have a wide number of users who are usually connected with the industry represented. If someone googles a doctor or issue, they'll usually see a result from that forum, and if someone mentions a doctor, the chances are that there will be someone in the forum who knows the doctor. Also, the nature of the forum means that we frequently get posters who create accounts to ask or answer a specific question, or do it anonymously and we've no post history for them to get their context.

In a regional forum, you have members grouped by region, so you tend not to have users posting due to a vested interest, you tend to have posters with a history of posting in a forum, and if someone in the Dublin County North (reprasent!) forum recommends a dentist in Swords, it's probably because they live in swords and use the dentist.

I agree with P_1. The last thing we need are more rules. 95% of the users posting on boards will never read a charter and never break a rule. The other 5% don't care if they break rules or not. In an ideal world, the rule would be removed from the HS forums, not added to the regional forums. However the time I spent as a mod of those forums made me realise why those rules are necessary and I wouldn't recommend changing them, but I think that rules should only be introduced if there's a specific problem they are meant to address, and I don't see that problem in the regional forums.

For now

mathepac

The Hill Billy wrote: »

... Also, what I think you are suggesting would cause a massive overhead on the Regional forum mods. The implication is that the regional mods would need to potentially familiarise themselves with the charters of every other forum on boards & try to enforce those charters in their own forums. This is just not possible, nor is it desirable to put such constraints on posters. ...

I think it is perfectly reasonable and appropriate to have (added after posting) ---> regional mods familiarise themselves with the charters of other forums.

As a poster I post on topics that are of interest to me, or where I might have an opinion or a bit of knowledge or insight to add to a discussion. I look at the thread title first and to be honest, I don't look at the forum necessarily BUT as a poster I am expected to have a deep insight and be able to recite on demand the charter of any and every forum I post in.

Why should the same not be expected of the mods on regional forums? Why not have them take a SIG apiece and swot up on its charter so they can address possible conflicts / abuses / contradictions. For example the derogatory term "scumbag" is disallowed on some threads but can be used with impunity on others; why?

If posters are expected to mind their P&Qs across a range of forums why are there not cross forum moderators with a cross-forum brief and appropriate knowledge? It could save the clod-hopperish "Read the charter first ..." posts by mods and instead provide some real guidance for posters.

I would also like the loop closed between reporting a post and the mods' action. e.g. "Dear mathepac you were wrong to report @poster's post in the forum-name / thread-name because ...." or "Dear mathepac you correctly reported @poster's post in the forum-name / thread-name to us and as a consequence ..... " This would help guide future reporting, reducing unnecessary reports and remove the feeling of talking to one's self. It would also be, dare I say it, courteous.

tbh

mathepac wrote: »

It would also be, dare I say it, courteous.

it'd be a massive timesink for mods and it'll never happen imo.

saying you need to be able to recite the charter on demand is hyperbolic tbh. The charter is a guideline and it's not exhaustive. If you're about to do something that could be perceived as "dickish", then check the charter and see if it's mentioned. You'll get a much better idea of what's acceptable in a forum if you just read it for a while before posting, always a good idea.

P_1

mathepac wrote: »

I think it is perfectly reasonable and appropriate to have (added after posting) ---> regional mods familiarise themselves with the charters of other forums.

As a poster I post on topics that are of interest to me, or where I might have an opinion or a bit of knowledge or insight to add to a discussion. I look at the thread title first and to be honest, I don't look at the forum necessarily BUT as a poster I am expected to have a deep insight and be able to recite on demand the charter of any and every forum I post in.

Why should the same not be expected of the mods on regional forums? Why not have them take a SIG apiece and swot up on its charter so they can address possible conflicts / abuses / contradictions. For example the derogatory term "scumbag" is disallowed on some threads but can be used with impunity on others; why?

If posters are expected to mind their P&Qs across a range of forums why are there not cross forum moderators with a cross-forum brief and appropriate knowledge? It could save the clod-hopperish "Read the charter first ..." posts by mods and instead provide some real guidance for posters.

I would also like the loop closed between reporting a post and the mods' action. e.g. "Dear mathepac you were wrong to report @poster's post in the forum-name / thread-name because ...." or "Dear mathepac you correctly reported @poster's post in the forum-name / thread-name to us and as a consequence ..... " This would help guide future reporting, reducing unnecessary reports and remove the feeling of talking to one's self. It would also be, dare I say it, courteous.

That is expecting far too much from the mods to be fair. The only thing connecting all the various fora here is that they're all hosted on the same site, aside from that (in theory) they're all totally separate entities.

mathepac

P_1 wrote: »

That is expecting far too much from the mods to be fair. ...

Why? That's the expectation that's placed squarely on the shoulders of posters, that they know and comply with the charters of fora they post in. I know about personal responsibility, self-moderation, etc but this is where the regional fora are different to the topic-focused SIGs.

Certain mods already have cross-forum admin / cmod / mod powers so it's not like an unheard of or precedent-setting suggestion for the regional mods.

P_1 wrote: »

... The only thing connecting all the various fora here is that they're all hosted on the same site, aside from that (in theory) they're all totally separate entities.

I disagree. The only things the various fora have in common are the posters, remember those guys? I'm one.

P_1

mathepac wrote: »

Why? That's the expectation that's placed squarely on the shoulders of posters, that they know and comply with the charters of fora they post in. I know about personal responsibility, self-moderation, etc but this is where the regional fora are different to the topic-focused SIGs.

Certain mods already have cross-forum admin / cmod / mod powers so it's not like an unheard of or precedent-setting suggestion for the regional mods.

But why should we expect that from them, they don't get paid for doing it so its not as if it's a rightful expectation that we should have.

I disagree. The only things the various fora have in common are the posters, remember those guys? I'm one.

Yes, I'm one too. To use the pub analogy, we all are free to visit different pubs but should we expect the bouncer from pub A to have a thorough knowledge of the rules of pub B to do his job as a bouncer for pub A?

mathepac

P_1 wrote: »

But why should we expect that from them, they don't get paid for doing it so its not as if it's a rightful expectation that we should have. ...

I have a total of 11 years volunteering under my belt. Not getting paid isn't a reason not to have high expectations of a volunteer discharging their duties professionally, once the work is clearly defined (and it's the definition of the work of the regional mods I am discussing here, not anyone's current performance).

P_1 wrote: »

... To use the pub analogy ...

The analogy doesn't work for me I'm afraid

The Hill Billy

mathepac wrote:

as a poster I am expected to have a deep insight and be able to recite on demand the charter of any and every forum I post in.

This is just not true. Forums have links to their charters so that you can easily refer to them in case you are unsure of the rules.

It is your responsibility, as a poster, to ensure that your posts comply with the charter of the forum in which you are posting.

It is my responsibility, as a moderator of a forum, to ensure that the rules specific to that forum are upheld.

Like I said earlier - expecting Region mods to familiarize themselves with the charters of every other forum (there are over 1,000) is not an option.


Regarding your point on reported posts - I suggest that you start another thread for this as it is not specific to the 'Regional forum rules' issue.

tHB

Annasopra

mathepac wrote: »

I think it is perfectly reasonable and appropriate to have (added after posting) ---> regional mods familiarise themselves with the charters of other forums.

As a poster I post on topics that are of interest to me, or where I might have an opinion or a bit of knowledge or insight to add to a discussion. I look at the thread title first and to be honest, I don't look at the forum necessarily BUT as a poster I am expected to have a deep insight and be able to recite on demand the charter of any and every forum I post in.

Why should the same not be expected of the mods on regional forums?

It's not reasonable. I moderate 2 regional forums and 2 other forums. Thats 4 forums NOT 1000.