Why did i use so much Kerosene

xabi

I filled up on 18/10/11 with 1000 liters of Kerosene which lasted until 20/09/12, about 11 months, so i filled up again. I just checked the level last night and im running close to empty and will need to fill again this week, that's only 5 months so im wondering how i used double this winter, was it much colder than last? I don't think it was, maybe i was robbed.

irishgoldberg

Maybe you've a leak? Dont think it was colder last winter, Iv used about the same as last year.

xabi

no leak that i can see, well, nothing that would leak 500 liters. I should add the boiler is a new condenser that was installed in 2010 and serviced last, this is the first year i used so much. Im beginning to think i was robbed, is there an easy way to tell if the boiler is running less efficient?

rainbowdash

It's definitely colder on average than last winter but fuel theft is also on the increase. Apparently they go around taking a 20 litre drum at a time, people never miss it then.

irishgoldberg

is your tank easy to access? I know around where I live there has been a load of robberies, but they dont seem to care what mess they make, can you smell any oil?

xabi

Thats the thing, i had a good look around and everything is spotless, maybe i have clean and tidy thieves - im looking a getting an Apollo smart monitor with the next fill to gauge it - anyone have experience of them?

Bigcheeze

Do you actually use any kerosene between May and September? Maybe you just managed to stretch the oil a bit more last year due to the very mild winter.

jimf

if you break your dates down 20/09/2012 to 26/02/2013 = 160 days its really not all that bad 1000 litres over 160 days = 6.25 litres per day how many hours per day use

PhilipJ

I had (hopefully) the same prolem. I thought i was been robbed too until i had a very good plumber sort my problem. Every year i had the boiler serviced by the same guy for the last 3-4 years. My house is 7 years old with a good firebird boiler, i was using 3.3 litres of kero per day (3-4 hour use) it increased to that per hour and going through about 2000 - 2500 litres per year i put it down to the cold winters. I got a new chap in just last month to service it and the first thing he copped that the injector was completely wrong releasing very little kero into the boiler thus never getting up to temp so the burner was constantly burning never stopping (I believe your boiler should burn for 3 minutes and off for 7 minutes if it gets up to temp), secondly the flame itself in the boiler was set too high causing more use of kero. Since i had it serviced last month the difference in the house heat wise & hot water is brilliant. I have yet to see if i am saving kero but so far so good as i check weekly.

shane0007

PhilipJ wrote: »

I had (hopefully) the same prolem. I thought i was been robbed too until i had a very good plumber sort my problem. Every year i had the boiler serviced by the same guy for the last 3-4 years. My house is 7 years old with a good firebird boiler, i was using 3.3 litres of kero per day (3-4 hour use) it increased to that per hour and going through about 2000 - 2500 litres per year i put it down to the cold winters. I got a new chap in just last month to service it and the first thing he copped that the injector was completely wrong releasing very little kero into the boiler thus never getting up to temp so the burner was constantly burning never stopping (I believe your boiler should burn for 3 minutes and off for 7 minutes if it gets up to temp), secondly the flame itself in the boiler was set too high causing more use of kero. Since i had it serviced last month the difference in the house heat wise & hot water is brilliant. I have yet to see if i am saving kero but so far so good as i check weekly.

That's great to see. It really does make a huge difference when an oil boiler is set up by somebody who knows what they are doing. It also makes a difference to the homeowner when everything is explained to the homeowner. He sounds like a decent & competent technician.

PhilipJ

He is, will be using him for the foreseable! He also put in a thermostate into my hot water cylinder set to 55 degress. once the tank hits 55 degrees i will be using less oil too as i believe you use a high percentage of kero heating the tank

Billy Bunting

PhilipJ wrote: »

I had (hopefully) the same prolem. I thought i was been robbed too until i had a very good plumber sort my problem. Every year i had the boiler serviced by the same guy for the last 3-4 years. My house is 7 years old with a good firebird boiler, i was using 3.3 litres of kero per day (3-4 hour use) it increased to that per hour and going through about 2000 - 2500 litres per year i put it down to the cold winters. I got a new chap in just last month to service it and the first thing he copped that the injector was completely wrong releasing very little kero into the boiler thus never getting up to temp so the burner was constantly burning never stopping (I believe your boiler should burn for 3 minutes and off for 7 minutes if it gets up to temp), secondly the flame itself in the boiler was set too high causing more use of kero. Since i had it serviced last month the difference in the house heat wise & hot water is brilliant. I have yet to see if i am saving kero but so far so good as i check weekly.

Went to a Warmflow 90/120 last week with a .55/80h set at 7bar, 4 baffle plates missing, "Engineer" a family friend. :rolleyes:

I real service engineer with the right equipment will always save the customer at least the price of a service and piece of mind comes as a freebie.

Irish Steve

How cast in stone is that burn versus idle time of 3 minutes and 7 minutes?

Reason I ask is that when I put the boiler in here, I did some fancy tricks with some cheap and cheerful hour recorders from RS, and over a 20 year period, our average usage is approximately 50/50, for every hour the pump is running, the burner is running for 30 minutes. That seems to me to not be too bad, the boiler is running 14 rads on the lower floor, 2000 Sq Ft, and 6 on the upper floor, (1000 Sq Ft) split into 2 zones, and the DHW is heated through a small (no longer available) coppercraft external heat exchanger that works very well indeed. Pump only runs if a zone wants heat, most of the rads are on TRV's

Bathroom rad (big Double panel) is not on zones, if pump runs, it heats.

The boiler gets checked regularly, has had new jets, etc, and after a big flood which did a lot of damage in 2002, the punp and burner had to be replaced. The replacement burner was another riello, as the original hadn't given a day's trouble until the water shorted everything out, and the pump was moved and replaced due to also being shorted out.

Hot water only during the summer months, plus heating in the winter, the house is 3000 Sq Fr dormer bungalow, not as well insulated as it should be, (that's in hand to change), the boiler is a Rio Sime, about 120K Btu, jet is about 1 Gall per hour, running on Gas Oil. Windows are all double glazed.

Pump runs for average 3 hours a day over the year, I don't have breakdown between summer and winter, burner is about 1.5 Hrs a day,

Last couple of years, due to finance constraints and the price of oil, we're not running it as much as we used to, probably only a couple of hours of an evening, and maybe 20 minutes some mornings for a tank of hot water and a warm bathroom,

Plans at the moment are for cavity insulation upgrade, (there's some polystyrene in the cavity, but it wasn't well fitted) and at some stage, the roof has to be upgraded to a warm roof, with an air barrier, right now, while there is a reasonable fibreglass covering in the roof, the problem is that it's very much not airtight, and with the number of downlighters that are in the ground floor ceiling, and no insulation under the upstairs floor, the airflow through the ceilings is not helpful. I did some work to reduce the airflow, which helped, but the long term solution is to take the tiles off, modify the root at felt level, (replacing the felt as part of the process), and then retile with a proper airtight layer at that level. That alone will make a huge difference to the overall insulation, but it's not a small job, and I'm not getting any younger!

So, I reckon that our oil usage is reasonably sane, given the issues I've mentioned, obviously I'd like to get it down, and hopefully the changes over time will help that.

Any thoughts and comments?

Thanks

Billy Bunting

Sorry but i got as far as "Plans at the moment are for cavity insulation upgrade" and hit your main point.

Irish Steve wrote: »

How cast in stone is that burn versus idle time of 3 minutes and 7 minutes?

Reason I ask is that when I put the boiler in here, I did some fancy tricks with some cheap and cheerful hour recorders from RS, and over a 20 year period, our average usage is approximately 50/50, for every hour the pump is running, the burner is running for 30 minutes. That seems to me to not be too bad,

Not sure about your 20yrs but your burn rate seems a tad excesive, but there are so many varables who knows.

Irish Steve

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Sorry but i got as far as "Plans at the moment are for cavity insulation upgrade" and hit your main point.


Not sure about your 20yrs but your burn rate seems a tad excesive, but there are so many varables who knows.

the 20 years is valid, in fact its more like 22 now, and fair point, there are so many variables, it's hard, which is partly why I asked, trying to get some ideas on what's good or bad.

The time clocks were mainly to give me an idea of fuel burn, the tank is not visible from the house, so reading the clock in the boiler house gives me a pretty good idea of what's left in the tank.

Thanks for the feedback

PhilipJ

It’s not cast in stone, I’m not qualified to give you details but just going off what i have been told and doing some research. My house sounds fairly similar to yours, 3000 sq foot but i have 31 rads altogether ( various sizes) with a firebird 120btu boiler. That could be another reason for the high oil consumption as the burner may not big enough. My next step is to get the condenser boiler. The 50/50 rate you could be spot on but as you say your house is not insulated to a high degree so the more you do the less time will take to heat and longer to lose the heat so reducing that further to perhaps 15-20 min per hour. Thats my aim.

Irish Steve

PhilipJ wrote: »

It’s not cast in stone, I’m not qualified to give you details but just going off what i have been told and doing some research. My house sounds fairly similar to yours, 3000 sq foot but i have 31 rads altogether ( various sizes) with a firebird 120btu boiler. That could be another reason for the high oil consumption as the burner may not big enough. My next step is to get the condenser boiler. The 50/50 rate you could be spot on but as you say your house is not insulated to a high degree so the more you do the less time will take to heat and longer to lose the heat so reducing that further to perhaps 15-20 min per hour. Thats my aim.

Very similar indeed from the sound of it. Condensing boiler may well be worth considering, but the more urgent are for sure the roof and walls, maybe better glazing in the window units, but that's not at all certain yet.

Thanks for your input, this whole area of getting better econmy out of heating systems is best described as shark infested custard, and many of the sharks out there are incredibly well briefed and well meaning but badly informed.

I'm more than ever convinced that if a system or method can't be demonstrated, and doesn't have a proven track record, it's probably not worth going down that road.

PhilipJ

It certainly is. another thing I purchased was the spray insulation canisters a few years back and coated where the wind/air was coming through the eves/rafters/attic walls with a 1 inch even spread and noticed a massive difference in any drafts i had (dormer bungalow), well worth it. It cost €550 from a company in Dublin. just an quick fix until i can afford to have it done by pro's.

Irish Steve

Very good thought, thanks for that one, I may well do something similar on our fascias, as they are not sealed against the walls, so the gale that howls in there at times is only wicked. Great idea.