Insurance and truning off Traction Control?

CruelCoin

Good morning all.

If i drive a car with traction control, turn it off, and then crash at some point, does that negatively affect your insurance?
Are you still covered?

I get conflicting views from everyone i ask on it.

If the car has the ability to turn the system off, then surely this would be worked into your insurance quote, as I've never seen a line "subject to never turning off traction control".

Any advice on this?

Anan1

I can't see how it would. Disabling it by pulling a fuse probably would have insurance implications, but if there's a switch..

shooter88

If you did have a crash with it off just turn it back on again

afatbollix

If the crash was your fault it wouldn't matter if you had it on or not. Your insurance will pay out to the 3rd party.


It should be pointed out that traction control wont stop you crashing. If you go into a corner at 60mph but should of taken it at 30mph you will still hit that tree regardless of traction control.

djimi

Surely for an insurer to be able to use it as a way not to pay out they would have to be able to prove that a) the traction control being turned off was the cause of the accident and b) that having traction control turned on would have prevented the accident from happening. I dont think they would use it against you either way, but even if they tried Id say they would have a hard time proving that it was a contributing factor.

shooter88

afatbollix wrote: »

If the crash was your fault it wouldn't matter if you had it on or not. Your insurance will pay out to the 3rd party.


It should be pointed out that traction control wont stop you crashing. If you go into a corner at 60mph but should of taken it at 30mph you will still hit that tree regardless of traction control.

Pulling out infront of a car with tc off and flooring it could make the car sit spinning instead of griping

kippy

CruelCoin wrote: »

Good morning all.

If i drive a car with traction control, turn it off, and then crash at some point, does that negatively affect your insurance?
Are you still covered?

I get conflicting views from everyone i ask on it.

If the car has the ability to turn the system off, then surely this would be worked into your insurance quote, as I've never seen a line "subject to never turning off traction control".

Any advice on this?

Would not having your lights on in a grey area level of brightness invoke a similar "clause"?
I doubt it?

Valetta

Why would you want to turn it off?

bazz26

Isn't traction control a driver's aid rather than a safety device? If so would your insurance company be concerned?

shooter88

shooter88 wrote: »

Pulling out infront of a car with tc off and flooring it could make the car sit spinning instead of griping

If its that slippy the TC will be scrubbing off a lot of power to stop the wheels spinning so you are not going to fly away either, better than spinning the wheels alright though.

I don't think it's even something they would check and it would be impossible to prove. I'm not sure about my current car but I'm fairly sure my last car reset the TC to on after turning off the car, I may be wrong though.

Tea 1000

They will pay out. It doesn't matter what setting you have anything at in your car, so long as it's road worthy.

CruelCoin

shooter88 wrote: »

If you did have a crash with it off just turn it back on again

Maybe i should have mentioned:

My traction control is disabled, because there is a sensor gone. I can't turn it on, and it's a bloody fortune to repair.

CruelCoin

Valetta wrote: »

Why would you want to turn it off?

Fun, more responsive.

I live in an area with terrible roads and with the system turned on, the car cuts power every other second as i go over potholes, etc.

dr.fuzzenstein

What car is it?
If it's a 600+BHP supercar with RWD traction control will make a difference, if it's a n/a FWD 1.4 the button might as well be connected to nothing for all the difference it makes.
I once rented a Punto with TC, it was about as usefull as tits on a fish in that car.

CiniO

OP are we actually talking just about Traction Control which prevents driving wheels from spinning when accelerating too hard, or are we talking about ESP (stabillity programme) which is meant to help keep stability in case of a skid?

Anyway - in any option I doubt anyone could find out you had it off, as in most cars they come on automatically anytime engine is started.

CiniO

Valetta wrote: »

Why would you want to turn it off?

I was driving recently for the whole month in snowy conditions and I had my TC and ESP off nearly at all times.
Also ocassionally I was pulling ABS fuse off to turn it off.

It's just easier to drive on snow without all those systems.

tossy

Valetta wrote: »

Why would you want to turn it off?

Because it comes with a button to turn it off.

Neilw

The traction control on my car is very intrusive, any sort of wheel spin cuts engine power and bogs the car down, makes pulling out of junctions a pain.

It's far easier to feather the throttle with a little bit of wheel spin and actually accelerate away, so tc off for me.

Saying that, there is even a module you can fit that turns the tc off 5 seconds after the car is started.

TouchingVirus

The BMW M5 (and thus probably a lot of other cars since their electronics stuff is all founded on what went before) records when traction control is turned off. I was told when I rented it that if I turned it off I'd be forfeiting my considerable deposit, even if I had no crash. When I handed the car back a guy went down to inspect it and read the modules.

Henry Ford III

shooter88 wrote: »

If you did have a crash with it off just turn it back on again

Ah that old nugget again.

MugMugs

One would assume that removing a fuse could be a modification as it's permanent until the fuse is put back and as such should be disclosed.

Turning it off however and forgetting to turn it back on or just not bothering however is just making use of the vehicles features.

There is always however the duty of care clause applied to all policies which basically states you have to drive as if you were uninsured and mitigate loss at all times.

CruelCoin

CiniO wrote: »

OP are we actually talking just about Traction Control which prevents driving wheels from spinning when accelerating too hard, or are we talking about ESP (stabillity programme) which is meant to help keep stability in case of a skid?

Anyway - in any option I doubt anyone could find out you had it off, as in most cars they come on automatically anytime engine is started.

Its traction control, not ESP.

There is a button to turn it off (BMW 2.0 320D).

In an earlier post i mentioned how a faulty sensor has rendered the TC disabled, and cannot be re-enabled untill the sensor is replaced.

When off, a special symbol appears in the dash.

tossy

CruelCoin wrote: »

Its traction control, not ESP.

There is a button to turn it off (BMW 2.0 320D).

In an earlier post i mentioned how a faulty sensor has rendered the TC disabled, and cannot be re-enabled untill the sensor is replaced.

When off, a special symbol appears in the dash.

If you look closely at that symbol it's actually Gay byrne with a disapproving look - do yourself and the country a favour and fix your traction control you maniac,before some one gets killed.

Tea 1000

Neilw wrote: »

The traction control on my car is very intrusive, any sort of wheel spin cuts engine power and bogs the car down, makes pulling out of junctions a pain.

It's far easier to feather the throttle with a little bit of wheel spin and actually accelerate away, so tc off for me.

Saying that, there is even a module you can fit that turns the tc off 5 seconds after the car is started.

In fairness, I've driven fairly torquey FWD cars and unless it's a greasy road or there's lead in the boot then you shouldn't have TC interfering that often, unless you have crap tyres. What tyres have you got? Or do you have an Astra OPC? That might explain things!!

kirving

TouchingVirus wrote: »

The BMW M5 (and thus probably a lot of other cars since their electronics stuff is all founded on what went before) records when traction control is turned off. I was told when I rented it that if I turned it off I'd be forfeiting my considerable deposit, even if I had no crash. When I handed the car back a guy went down to inspect it and read the modules.

Interesting that the car records periods when TC was turned off. What did he use to check it?

larchill

I've an Audi A4 (current model) which has ESP (Electronic Stability Program). There's a button which disables it when for example pulling out of snow or mud. This I've done a few times but always turned it back on again afterwards. It always defaults to 'on' when starting - so its not possible to disable it as such.

I always thought traction control & ESP were one & the same?

kirving

larchill wrote: »

I've an Audi A4 (current model) which has ESP (Electronic Stability Program). There's a button which disables it when for example pulling out of snow or mud. This I've done a few times but always turned it back on again afterwards. It always defaults to 'on' when starting - so its not possible to disable it as such.

I always thought traction control & ESP were one & the same?

Not really, traction control will either cut engine power, or brake a wheel if it senses it slipping(due to no traction). Used really on the driving wheels, when accelerating in a straight line.

ESP/DSC/ is different, in that sensors monitor all wheel speeds, steering angle, suspension movement, yaw rate, and all acceleration forces to try to gauge what exactly the car is doing. If something doesn't fit into this nice big picture (eg:you're turning the wheel, but the car senses no lateral acceleration), the car will react.

There are a hunderd different methods used, from braking a wheel, cutting ignition, hardening up suspension, adjusitng the diff, etc, etc. Obviously the complexity of the system depends on the car.

OT: I'm helping to implement a Traction Control system for a Formula Student car this year, which will hopefully mean a better result in the acceleration test. More info on the car in general, (and the TC in future) in my signature, for anyone interested.

Tea 1000

larchill wrote: »

I've an Audi A4 (current model) which has ESP (Electronic Stability Program). There's a button which disables it when for example pulling out of snow or mud. This I've done a few times but always turned it back on again afterwards. It always defaults to 'on' when starting - so its not possible to disable it as such.

I always thought traction control & ESP were one & the same?

Traction control is for stopping wheel spin under heavy acceleration where the tyres stop gripping and start spinning, it'll just cut power very briefly so you can regain traction.
ESP is a stability program where it monitors all 4 wheels and your speed and each wheel speed to see if the car is either under-steering or over-steering and can actually brake the individual wheel needed to bring the car back in line.

One very good example of ESP kicking in which I have experienced was turning a corner going quite fast and suddenly coming on a fairly deep puddle that only the passenger wheels actually hit. Instead of the car pulling wildly to the left the ESP immediately kicked in, braked the outside wheels and kept the car stable and driving on a straight line.

Neilw

Tea 1000 wrote: »

In fairness, I've driven fairly torquey FWD cars and unless it's a greasy road or there's lead in the boot then you shouldn't have TC interfering that often, unless you have crap tyres. What tyres have you got? Or do you have an Astra OPC? That might explain things!!

There are bridgestones on the car, it's fairly torquey alright, Fwd and supercharged. Its easy enough to brake traction on a greasy road when pulling away from a standstill.

CruelCoin

larchill wrote: »

I've an Audi A4 (current model) which has ESP (Electronic Stability Program). There's a button which disables it when for example pulling out of snow or mud. This I've done a few times but always turned it back on again afterwards. It always defaults to 'on' when starting - so its not possible to disable it as such.

I always thought traction control & ESP were one & the same?

Traction control cuts power to the wheels when they start spinning, and gives you power again when the wheels stop spinning.

ESP kicks in when the car starts to slide (aka tail steps out) and applies the brakes on whatever side is necessary to pull your car back into a straight line again. Some cars have both, but most just have TC.