300 Million research fund no mention of WIT getting any of it

Swinng

I maybe wrong on this one but it looks like WIT is not getting much from this fund


"They will be based in leading universities across Ireland, which will collaborate with specialists from other institutions and industry partners.

They include University College Cork, University College Dublin, Tyndall National Institute (UCC), Trinity College Dublin, University of Limerick, NUI Galway, Dublin City University, Cork Institute of Technology, Teagasc, the Marine Institute, Geological Survey Ireland, Royal College of Surgeons and CSO Cork."

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/300m-research-investment-hailed-as-game-changer-586094.html

O Riain

Another reason why we are at such a disadvantage with not having a University. No doubt having a "Technological" University will do absolutely nothing to change this.

Roanmore

That report says nothing about WIT not being included, it mentions a number of Institutes that are included but it seems that it's not the full list.

Swinng

Little bit more info in the Irish Times. Still not giving me any confidence in WIT getting any of this money.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0225/breaking29.html

"All of the centres have a host university and a lead researcher, but they also have academic partners from across the Irish third level sector. There is also direct company investment and involvement in the research with come centres involving more than 40 company partners. The funding will open up at least 800 research jobs across the seven centres, said Prof Mark Ferguson, director general of Science Foundation Ireland which will channel the State funding to the centres.

The centres will have a “hub and spoke” structure, with academic researchers at its centre and companies connected via spokes, Prof Ferguson said.

The largest centre is called Insight and will conduct research into “big data” the storing, handling and analysis of vast amounts of computerised information.

This is the only centre that has four host institutions, each with its own shared lead investigator, and has 45 industrial partners. Hosts include University College Dublin, University College Cork, NUI Galway and Dublin City University.

All other centres have a single host institution and a single lead investigator, plus other academic and industrial partners.

University College Cork faired particularly well in the selection process, serving as host to four centres. Trinity College Dublin will lead one centre while University of Limerick will lead another.

The Amber (Advanced Materials and BioEngineering Research Centre) at Trinity will look at new materials for use in electronics and medical devices. Limerick will host SSPC, the Synthesis and Solid State Pharmaceutical Centre. It will pursue drug development and synthesis."

7upfree

O Riain wrote: »

Another reason why we are at such a disadvantage with not having a University. No doubt having a "Technological" University will do absolutely nothing to change this.

Just another piece chipped away from Waterford City. Much as some would have you believe that all is fine.:rolleyes:

r3nu4l

As someone who knows a bit about how funding is distributed across academic research institutes I think I know why WIT didn't get any funding.

This was a large proposal in which networking partnerships were formed and proposals put together and presented to the government with a request for funding. This proposal was most likely led by the academic institutions, their spin-off companies and interested private companies who fund research at these institutions.

This most likely had nothing to do with the Government ignoring Waterford (whatever the paranoia/conspiracy theory says), it's more to do with the academic institutions and companies involved just not connecting with WIT imo.

mike65

Thats not a better reason though! In fact its worse.

WIT marooned.

O Riain

mike65 wrote: »

Thats not a better reason though! In fact its worse.

WIT marooned.

Time to get onto our own awful politicians once again!

7upfree

r3nu4l wrote: »

As someone who knows a bit about how funding is distributed across academic research institutes I think I know why WIT didn't get any funding.

This was a large proposal in which networking partnerships were formed and proposals put together and presented to the government with a request for funding. This proposal was most likely led by the academic institutions, their spin-off companies and interested private companies who fund research at these institutions.

This most likely had nothing to do with the Government ignoring Waterford (whatever the paranoia/conspiracy theory says), it's more to do with the academic institutions and companies involved just not connecting with WIT imo.

So while you laugh off conspiracy theorists you essentially state that Waterford is being "marooned". I think the word you're looking for is "isolated" - so as not to rock the cosy educational cartel, while our "politicians" look the other way and pretend it's not happening.

Far more fitting to describe the treatment of Waterford City at the hands of FG/Lab and their blinkered hacks really.

r3nu4l

mike65 wrote: »

Thats not a better reason though! In fact its worse.

WIT marooned.

Unfortunately that is down to WIT and their staff alone. Globally, almost all academic scientific research funding is being channeled towards two things:

1. Research that has a practical application
2. Collaborative institutes - collaborating with other academic institutes and industry

Now that's not to say that I agree 100% with that way of funding, I don't. I believe firmly that basic research, with no immediately obvious 'profit-motive' should be funded because it is basic research that leads to the discoveries that allow commercial application of research.

However, my posts here are conjecture in part because we don't actually know if WIT even applied for any of this money. If you don't apply, you do not get.

Now if they DID apply for some of this money and it was in collaboration with other institutes but didn't get it then you have to ask why?

Is it because of a political agenda to destroy WIT and Waterford along with it? That's possible but highly doubtful. In reality and from my experience, academic institutions do not get grants for a number of reasons. Sometimes, it's because they asked for money for equipment such as MALDI-TOF mass spectrometers or Atomic Force Microscopes costing up to a quarter of a million each. Nothing wrong with asking for those but if a similar proposal comes in from another collaborative group and they already have this equipment then they will win out.

Sometimes too the names of those applying are important. Certain names carry more weight. Example: You have 100,000 euro to invest and two choices, both offers have exactly the same fees, charges and terms and conditions. One of the guys offering to invest your money is PJ Mahony from Ballynamucka, who has been in the game four years and invested 400 Euro for a friend and made him 50 Euro in six months. The other guy is Warren Buffet. Who are you going to invest with?

Scientific research is the same. Ireland really does have some top-notch, internationally renowned, proven scientists. If their names are on the grant proposals then their previous track record of success speaks for itself and they are likely to get at least some of the research pot.

7upfree wrote: »

So while you laugh off conspiracy theorists you essentially state that Waterford is being "marooned". I think the word you're looking for is "isolated"

Again, If WIT has been isolated, that would be of their own doing. Every academic institute in Ireland knows he score on collaborative research and are constantly reaching out to find new partners. The Government do not choose the institutes who should apply for funding. These institutes, universities, campus-off-shoot companies and private companies network together and come up with proposals for funding that they then submit to Government. So again, if WIT is isolated, they have been isolated by peers OR they have not networked appropriately.

Either of those things is bad for WIT. Either they don't have the academic kudos and reputation, or they do not know how to go about getting funding.

- so as not to rock the cosy educational cartel, while our "politicians" look the other way and pretend it's not happening.

Far more fitting to describe the treatment of Waterford City at the hands of FG/Lab and their blinkered hacks really.

Yep, that's definitely the easiest but also the most ignorant (of reality) approaches to take. Blame da guberment for everything and take no accountability of any sort for inaction or inability to get grants.

By the way, for clarity, I don't support any political party in Ireland. Not one of them. I just don't believe for one second that the government are to blame for this. I wouldn't give my mate Tony money to develop something for me just because he's a nice bloke and lives in a nice part of the country, I'd give it to the guy who could get the job done and justify the expense.


EDIT: My post is not about Waterford per se, I couldn't give a fig if it was UCC or Tralee IT or Tallaght IT that didn't get any of the money. My post applies equally to any institute that applied and didn't get any money. What I'm trying to do here is to educate people as to how and why research funding is allocated and possible reasons for an institute not getting any of that funding. I realise that some people probably won't want to hear what I'm saying or be educated about the process but that's okay, I don't care what people want to believe, I'm just putting my own experience out there.

witless1

You can find a better overview of what was funded on the SFI press release:

http://www.sfi.ie/news-events/press-releases/300million-investment-in-7-world-class-research-centres-minister-bruton-minister-sherlock/


There are 7 centers there and each is a distinct research area and WIT do not have a research presence in the majority of them. It isn't a matter of being handed funding for these things, it isn't a case of being ignored or whatever other conspiracy theories pop up. They are very competitive and to be in a position to win this funding you need to have a strong footprint in the area. That means postdocs, postgraduates and winning funding on a national and European level. I am aware that WIT did put in a strong industrial backed bid for one IT center based on a follow on from an originally funded SFI project. That proposal wasn't taken up though due to the quality of the other proposals. That isn't a slight against the quality of the proposal submitted, it's an acknowledgement of the difficulty it is to gain such funding.

O Riain

witless1 wrote: »

You can find a better overview of what was funded on the SFI press release:

http://www.sfi.ie/news-events/press-releases/300million-investment-in-7-world-class-research-centres-minister-bruton-minister-sherlock/


There are 7 centers there and each is a distinct research area and WIT do not have a research presence in the majority of them. It isn't a matter of being handed funding for these things, it isn't a case of being ignored or whatever other conspiracy theories pop up. They are very competitive and to be in a position to win this funding you need to have a strong footprint in the area. That means postdocs, postgraduates and winning funding on a national and European level. I am aware that WIT did put in a strong industrial backed bid for one IT center based on a follow on from an originally funded SFI project. That proposal wasn't taken up though due to the quality of the other proposals. That isn't a slight against the quality of the proposal submitted, it's an acknowledgement of the difficulty it is to gain such funding.

Ok fair enough but it emphasises just how much of a disadvantage we are at by not having a university. If we did maybe we could have put in a stronger bid and got a chunk of this funding but because we don't we were never even in the running.

7upfree

r3nu4l wrote: »

Again, If WIT has been isolated, that would be of their own doing.

Ah right - so the blame lies at the feet of WIT. A handy get out clause as usual.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Yep, that's definitely the easiest but also the most ignorant (of reality) approaches to take. Blame da guberment for everything and take no accountability of any sort for inaction or inability to get grants.

So the "guberment" or the educational cartel played no part of any description in this? And you accuse others of being ignorant? Nice outlook BTW.

What is fascinating is the number of thanks to your post above, some by people who were "educated" in WIT. What's the old saying...eaten bread is soon forgotten. It is precisely because of these attitudes that the City remains in the state its in. "Oh they're militants", blah blah, etc, etc.

Waterford has been on the back foot for years. At the hands of successive governments. No two ways about it. And frankly, your self-righteous pontificating is frankly, offensive, both to myself and the residents of this City.

7upfree

witless1 wrote: »

it's an acknowledgement of the difficulty it is to gain such funding.

If you're being deliberately isolated.

7upfree

r3nu4l wrote: »

What I'm trying to do here is to educate people

Says it all really.

r3nu4l

7upfree wrote: »

Says it all really.

This and your other posts 'says it all' really, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. As someone who has actually worked in research and sought grants in the past though (successfully and unsuccessfully) I'm pretty sure that my insight will always be far greater than your though...

Cabaal

Ok lads, let's leave it at that in relation to the back and forth and blaming the government in the usual way many Waterford threads seems to go these days.

It's not productive and benefits nobody, perhaps some input from people with experience with research in WIT would be good for input here

Aquos76

Im actually going to move this thread to the WIT forum now, there are probably more people who frequent that forum who may be able at add more to this thread that the regular Waterford forum users, if we leave it run here it will no doubt turn in to a FG bashing thread.

witless1

O Riain wrote: »

Ok fair enough but it emphasises just how much of a disadvantage we are at by not having a university. If we did maybe we could have put in a stronger bid and got a chunk of this funding but because we don't we were never even in the running.

It certainly would help though if WIT had university status and use that to build up an environment where they could get more diversity in terms of researchers and postdocs / postgrads. It's not an overnight job even with uni status but it can be done without it, just takes that little bit longer. The right people with the right motivation to push a research agenda is all that is needed. All you have to do is look at the success of the MPRG group in the last few years for a less publicised example of great research that is going on in WIT.

7upfree wrote: »

If you're being deliberately isolated.

Can you give an example of where WIT is being deliberately isolated? I'm possibly missing something very obvious but for the life of me I can't think of how the college is being deliberately isolated. In the example I gave where the college sent in an unsuccessful proposal, that was backed by not only leading industry but also universities within the country. Some of those partners were name checked directly in the report. In that instance it had nothing to do with being deliberately isolated or ignored or us being an IT, it simply came down to the SFI opting to allocate their funding to alternative, worthy proposals.

Dan_Solo

Swinng wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0225/breaking29.html

"The funding will open up at least 800 research jobs across the seven centres, said Prof Mark Ferguson, director general of Science Foundation Ireland which will channel the State funding to the centres.

This bit always makes me laugh. The vast majority of those 800 researchers will be contract staff moving from previous contracts. The actual number of permanent jobs created directly by SFI funding is close to zero.

7upfree

r3nu4l wrote: »

This and your other posts 'says it all' really, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. As someone who has actually worked in research and sought grants in the past though (successfully and unsuccessfully) I'm pretty sure that my insight will always be far greater than your though...

Of course it will.:rolleyes: Self-praise is no praise at all, etc, etc.But I don't expect you will fully understand that somehow. Intersting that the thread has been moved though in order to avoid criticism of FG. Ah ya gotta love it.......

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

Of course it will.:rolleyes: Self-praise is no praise at all, etc, etc.But I don't expect you will fully understand that somehow. Intersting that the thread has been moved though in order to avoid criticism of FG. Ah ya gotta love it.......

If you have a problem with moderation on this or any forum, contact the mods directly to discuss your concerns. If your not happy with the answer, you can escalate your concerns to the CMods and after that the Help Desk option is available to speak with an Administrator.

I think you need to take off the tinfoil hat and stop thinking that everybody is a 'FG hack' that disagrees with you or does something you don't agree with. Its getting really silly and your taking it onto a different forum, and that's where your crossing the line. This thread was about WIT and so it was moved to the WIT forum by a moderator not involved in the original discussion.

If you feel the site itself is run by FG or the government, you can raise the concerns in Feedback and thrash it out with other users. If you think they are also FG, than perhaps this website isn't for you (or maybe, pop over to the Conspiracy Theory forum).

If you want to question this, make further comment on this or any moderation, please send me or one of the other forum mods a PM rather than continue derailing the topic further. This is standard Boards.ie practice.

Thanks.

Aquos76

7upfree wrote: »

Of course it will.:rolleyes: Self-praise is no praise at all, etc, etc.But I don't expect you will fully understand that somehow. Intersting that the thread has been moved though in order to avoid criticism of FG. Ah ya gotta love it.......

The thread was moved because it is actually more suited to the WIT forum, and I guess it stops users like you turning every bloody thread in the Waterford forum into a FG bashing one.

7upfree

Aquos76 wrote: »

The thread was moved because it is actually more suited to the WIT forum, and I guess it stops users like you turning every bloody thread in the Waterford forum into a FG bashing one.

"users like me"......so criticism of FG is now not allowed? Interesting. Have you ever though that there are more "users like me" than there are users like the aforementioned FG supporters/members of FG, who never waste an opportunity to defend a party which is dismantling this city around us?

And who seem to be using boards.ie as a propaganda machine of sorts? Glass houses, stones, etc. And as for "tinfoil hats" that could also equally apply to the aforementioned "hacks" (your terminology). But instead of the Waterford City forum being a discussion forum - representing ALL sides - it now appears that one side in particular hold sway, including censoring what they perceive as "FG criticism".

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

"users like me"......so criticism of FG is now not allowed? Interesting. Have you ever though that there are more "users like me" than there are users like the aforementioned FG supporters/members of FG, who never waste an opportunity to defend a party which is dismantling this city around us?

And who seem to be using boards.ie as a propaganda machine of sorts? Glass houses, stones, etc. And as for "tinfoil hats" that could also equally apply to the aforementioned "hacks" (your terminology). But instead of the Waterford City forum being a discussion forum - representing ALL sides - it now appears that one side in particular hold sway, including censoring what they perceive as "FG criticism".

I sent you a PM to discuss your concerns and address the points you keep raising, this isn't the place to slice up moderator actions and discuss them. Some people want to get on with the topic and not have it derailed. If you want to bring a topic to the Feedback forum for public engagement on how the forums are run and to ask for comment on the issue that you see as Boards being used as a 'propaganda machine' - than please do.

Its most certainly not the case and I don't think you are seeing the wood from the trees. You insist that others who disagree with you or prove you wrong are FG hacks - that's clearly not the case.

So lets leave this to be dealt with over PM or Feedback. Not here. Last warning.

Thanks.

bp_me

So much negative here... what about all the positive...

- Three EI Technology Gateways ~€1m each spread over the next five years (from start of 2013).
- ~€3.7m SFI equipment funding in 2012 alone.
- SFI TIDA funding.
- WINS participation.
- Active industrial collaboration.
- Actively generating IP.

There are bound to me more that I don't know about in groups I don't have contact with.