Frank McClean: Forgotten pioneer of the sky

durandal01

I've never heard of this bloke before,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21518157
An aviation pioneer of Irish parentage.

merisi

Well known in Northern Ireland aviation circles and in any decent histories of British commercial aviation in the pre-WW2 era. Good article nonetheless.

foxcoverteddy

Do you not think that as an Irishman, do we know where his parents etc came from, that there should be some kind of recognition. the man was inspired, Suggestions etc.

merisi

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Do you not think that as an Irishman, do we know where his parents etc came from, that there should be some kind of recognition. the man was inspired, Suggestions etc.

While born in England, his father and grandfather were both Belfast-born, his father being Frank McClean, FRS, a well-known astronomer and scientist and his grandfather JR McClean, an engineer who was involved with the Suez Canal, the telegraph industry and many civil projects in the French Empire.

johnny_doyle

An Irish air pioneer of sorts :

Dublin born George William Patrick Dawes was the first serving British Army officer to be awarded a Pilot's Certificate in England (number 17) in 1910.

One of the first officers in the Royal Flying Corps, he flew in the first batch of RFC planes from Scotland to Ireland in September 1913. Dawes flew a Maurice Farman Longhorn, serial no 215. Served in WW1 and WW2 in the RFC/Royal Air Force; previously served in the Boer War.

foxcoverteddy

Johnny Doyle that was brilliant detective work, w2ell done. I was of a mind to say that isn't tme we gave some of these lads the recognition they deserve, I mean Australia have Kingsford smith, why not Dublin George Dawes, our past tends to get left behind, or perhaps Waterford George Dawes, I will stick it on the aviation forum tomorrow with full credit to you.
Thanks again Foxy

johnny_doyle

not a lot of detective work; just some reading and looking at some records of early pilots

A View from Above; 200 Years of Aviation in Ireland by Donal MacCarron
A History of the Royal Air Force and United States Naval Air Service in Ireland 1913-1923 by Karl Hayes

Flight Magazine : No 2 Squadron

johnny_doyle

2 aviation pioneers with a link to the Easter Rising :


Ken Waller, (Kenneth Herbert Fraser Waller) a pioneer avaitor with De Havilland was married to Marjorie Playfair. Marjorie's eldest brother George Alexander Playfair was wounded in the raid on the Magazine Fort in the Phoenix Park on the first day of the Rising and died the following day. (Most stories indicate that it was Marjorie's brother Gerald that died as a result of this raid but this is incorrect).


Glider pilot and test pilot John Neilan is the nephew of Lt Gerald Neilan, 10th Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers, who was killed on the first day of the Easter Rising. John Neilan passed his aero certificate in 1934; his father Dr John Neilan received his aero cert the following year. John Neilan's uncle Arthur (brother of Gerald and Dr John Neilan) fought with the Irish Volunteers during the Easter Rising.


An early aviator rather than a pioneer, American Clive Wilson Warman served with the British Army in Dublin during the Easter Rising before joining the Royal Flying Corps and becoming an air "ace".

Stovepipe

Hi all,
The aforementioned McLean would have been regarded as a British citizen. If he had no connection with the Republic, either by birth or passport, then his achievements are not "ours", so to speak. The other great NI aviator, Harry Ferguson, is feted on both sides of the Border and rightly so, but he is more honoured in the South for his tractors than his aircraft.....Norn Iron had a huge aviation industry, thru the form of Short Bros. and it's contribution to British and world aviation is unquestioned and it still has a respectable one (courtesy of Canadians) but the NI media tends not to recognise or honour aviation achievements that originate in the South unless they have an NI connection. If you read items emanating from certain quarters in NI, one would not known that the aerospace industry in the South has been overhauling commercial aircraft and their engines since the 60s, has contributed thousands of pilots,engineers and other aviation specialists to world aviation and is a leading player in world aircraft leasing. Honouring the McLeans of this world is all very well but "our" aviation history is very extensive, considering our small size and is being made daily, mostly quietly and without fuss.Just because we don't make airframes doesn't mean we don't contribute.

regards
Stovepipe

foxcoverteddy

Stovepipe, well wriiten post, very informative. What was behind my original thought was, so many airports are named after famous people, not always in aviation unfortunately, Sydney's Kingsford Smith prompted my excursion ibnto possible Irish aviators.
So, if someone was going to suggest, if it takes off a name for Waterford, who would it be?
I feel that we should not let our past slip away as you say Irish input into civil aviation has been magnificent, given we are a small country.
The use of International says nothing, but the name of either a man or woman might at least convey to the average person, my god the Irish are really into flying, there must be more to life than MOL, though perhaps such an accolade might tempt him to use Waterford as a permanent hub.
Thank you once again

Junius

Greetings to all. I found this thread quite interesting and concur that Irish aviation pioneers have been overlooked for far too long.
With regards to Frank McClean, Stovepipe is of course right in stating that he was a British citizen, though it is not always easy aligning today's definition of the Republic and N.I. with those of the 19th century when he was born, or even the early 20th century when he was flying. His family originated in Ulster, though he had uncles and cousins who moved to and entered the medical & dental professions in Dublin, so there are probably more members of the family buried in St Jerome's cemetery, Dublin than in Belfast. He considered his family Irish without stipulating North or South. Interestingly, & often overlooked with regards to him being referred to as the "The Godfather of British Naval Aviation" is the fact that the civil engineering firm that his grandfather founded "McClean & Stileman" designed and built the docks at Barrow-in-Furness, with his father (also Frank) being resident engineer during the 1860's. It was the birthplace of some fine aircraft carriers

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Junius wrote: »

<..> With regards to Frank McClean, Stovepipe is of course right in stating that he was a British citizen, though it is not always easy aligning today's definition of the Republic and N.I. with those of the 19th century when he was born, or even the early 20th century when he was flying. <....>

I think you're right to highlight the ambiguities. The same thing happens when you approach famous "Irish" scientists. For instance, the physicist John Tyndall was the son of a landlord's agent who campaigned activity against Home Rule and had deep reservations about the Catholic Church. Yet, you'll sometimes read accounts of him that say he was first educated in a hedge school, clearly intended to give a completely distorted picture of him (he did attend his local Catholic primary school in Carlow, as their was no nearby Protestant school.) Tyndall would have regarded himself as British.

Anyway, another largely forgotten Irish aviation pioneer would be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Fitzmaurice_(pilot)
http://www.met.ie/aviation/casement.asp?LW=Laois

On the 12 April 1928 the first successful East-West crossing of the Atlantic was made. Baldonnel was the departure point for this flight and one of the crew members on the flight was Comdt. James Fitzmaurice, Commanding Officer of the Air Corps.

But, then, what do you make of a man who saw action on the Somme, subsequently joined the RAF and then joined the Irish Air Corps on independence? Far simpler to just pretend that the history of trans-Atlantic aviation starts in Foynes.

johnny_doyle

there is an interesting podcast available on the RTE website re Colonel Fitzmaurice and the Bremen

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/doconone/radio-documentary-flight-of-the-bremen-atlantic-captain-james-fitzmaurice.html

Also a few film clips on British Pathe re Colonel Fitzmaurice :

http://www.britishpathe.com/workspaces/johnny-doyle/uHyuiKLT

Some early Irish related aviation clips on British Pathe too

http://www.britishpathe.com/workspaces/johnny-doyle/SL5qdeEy