The Kweens English.

AlekSmart · 23-02-2013 1:06pm #1

Can't find the recent thread concerning the amount of profanity in everyday use in Ireland,but I found the reports of the Offaly Minibus Crash trial to be illuminating.....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/fatal-school-bus-crash-court-hears-whole-bus-just-flipped-29084517.html

I suppose at one time the use of such language in a Court might have prompted a Hrrumph !! from the bench...

She said it was really noticeable and she told the driver: “Ger, the bus is ****ed”. She said she was told it would be fixed in a few weeks.

She told Kenneth Fogarty SC, defending Mr McKeown: “The bus was in ****e. The bus was fairly broken down.

http://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/local/offaly-bus-crash-trial-hears-from-bus-driver-1-4816616

“I could see the back axle coming away, making its way away from the bus, kind of following me. The bus was going towards the left, the arse of it going right.”

Perhaps it's an Offaly thing,or a general lack of verbal descriptive ability, or is it indicative of a more relaxed attitude to stuff generally ?

ND...The asterisked letters are included in the print articles...

ejmaztec · 23-02-2013 1:12pm

I like this comment from a judge in Kerry a couple of weeks ago.

'YOU'RE down there all morning messing around like a complete tool!' So said Judge James O'Connor in apparent exasperation at the conduct of a young man who arrived in court unable to pay in full for his misdemeanours.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/messing-around-like-a-complete-tool-in-court-29032866.html

Death and Taxes · 23-02-2013 1:13pm

It's a BIFFO thing!:D

AlekSmart · 23-02-2013 1:32pm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

It's a BIFFO thing!:D

Perhaps only to a point....the most famous modern BIFFO of them all does'nt quite fit the profile either...unless them oul Cistercians really did lose the plot....

Brian Cowen was educated at Clara National School, Árd Scoil Naomh Chiaráin (St. Ciaran's High School), located at Clara, County Offaly, and the Cistercian College of Mount St. Joseph in Roscrea, County Tipperary. He was twelve years old when he entered Mount St. Joseph College, as a boarder. After secondary school, he attended University College Dublin where he studied law. He subsequently qualified as a solicitor from the Incorporated Law Society of Ireland, Dublin.

Fox_In_Socks · 23-02-2013 1:41pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Perhaps it's an Offaly thing,or a general lack of verbal descriptive ability, or is it indicative of a more relaxed attitude to stuff generally ?

ND...The asterisked letters are included in the print articles...

*Wince*

"Verbal descriptive ability?" That is an awkward phrase. Physician, heal thyself!:pac:

Seaneh · 23-02-2013 1:55pm

Seeing as there is no such thing as "proper" english in the same sense as there is Castilian Spanish and High German and every regional dialect and their individual grammatical structures and lexicons are equally as valid as that spoken in the City of London ( or Hackney, or Islington, or City of Westminster or Camdem, etc), I fail to see your point op...

IM0 · 23-02-2013 2:38pm

Seaneh wrote: »

Seeing as there is no such thing as "proper" english in the same sense as there is Castilian Spanish and High German and every regional dialect and their individual grammatical structures and lexicons are equally as valid as that spoken in the City of London ( or Hackney, or Islington, or City of Westminster or Camdem, etc), I fail to see your point op...

exactly. did you understand what was meant OP? well there you go, case erm...closed!

goose2005 · 23-02-2013 3:34pm

Please - call it King's County.

Rasheed · 23-02-2013 3:47pm

Ah it made sense to me anyway. No point in buttering it up.

If the bus was fûcked, the bus was fûcked, whether you're talking to a judge or the lad beside you at the bar.

Herb Powell · 23-02-2013 3:49pm

What is the point here??

Bipolar Joe · 23-02-2013 3:59pm

I've found people who curse often to be less repressed and less high-strung. Also, "Excessive" swearing has nothing to do with a lack of "verbal descriptive ability." I can speak like I have my brain connected to dictionary.com. I don't because people can understand me better and it's easier to just talk however I feel like. You prick.

ballsymchugh · 23-02-2013 4:03pm

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

I've found people who curse often to be less repressed and less high-strung. Also, "Excessive" swearing has nothing to do with a lack of "verbal descriptive ability." I can speak like I have my brain connected to dictionary.com. I don't because people can understand me better and it's easier to just talk however I feel like. You prick.

El Siglo · 23-02-2013 4:25pm

If you have that much time to worry about how people say something, as opposed to what they are saying, then you've way too much free time on your hands. The only people I've ever encountered who speak as though it was still 1912 and Edward VII was on the throne are barristers. Honestly, it's liking going for a job interview trying to chat to them, ridiculously formal even the 'banter'.

I know plenty of well educated people who swear like navvies, in fact two professors I know will drop the c-bomb when they get angry and they're both from England and in their 60s. So I wouldn't say it's an Offaly thing "or a general lack of verbal descriptive ability", it's just how some people speak.

r3nu4l · 23-02-2013 7:20pm

To be honest, I agree with the OP and I agreed with the OP in the thread about people who swear all the time.

Swearing is wonderful, in the right place and the right context it can be a powerful confounder. However, it is grating on the ears to hear someone who can't speak without swearing.

I hate hearing someone speaking like this:
'I'm ****ing tellin' ya, I ****ing saw it with my own ****ing eyes, it was ****ing brilliant for ****'s sake'

When they could speak like this:
'I'm telling you, I saw it with my own eyes, it was brilliant.'

Simpler, cleaner and as easy to understand as the previous sentence. Why the need to insert the swearing? It's not offensive to me, it just speaks volumes about the person who uses it excessively.

Edit: I suppose what annoys me most is the pure laziness of it. People who say 'The bus was ****ed' instead of 'the bus was in a terrible state of repair', or 'the bus was in dreadful need of repair' or any other multitude of other expressions just annoy me. Incessant swearing in real life is just as bad as textspeak on a forum to my mind. Lazy.

AlekSmart · 24-02-2013 1:49am

Fox_In_Socks wrote: »

*Wince*

"Verbal descriptive ability?" That is an awkward phrase. Physician, heal thyself!:pac:

Oh alright then Foxisocks......VDA .....Satisfied ?

Seaneh · 24-02-2013 2:34pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oh alright then Foxisocks......VDA .....Satisfied ?

I think the point was that it's just a very awkward phrase...

AlekSmart · 24-02-2013 4:09pm

Seaneh wrote: »

I think the point was that it's just a very awkward phrase...

Verbal descriptive ability.....kinda awkward perhaps,maybe,so VDA kinda suits a bit better,yes ?

I see it as more reflective of an era of commentators such as Alistair Cooke,Raymond Baxter,Micheal O Hehir,Sean Og o Ceallacháin,Harry Carpenter,Micheal O Muircheartaigh,David Attenborough.

The sort of ability,reflecting a pre-visual era when the commentator had to try to paint a picture for the listener without knowing anything of that listeners comprehension abilities.

Largely,these people succeeded,to a degree which I suspect many of todays commentators could not replicate should the oul Video-Feed go down.....so it's back to you in the studio Seanh...:)

Seaneh · 24-02-2013 4:32pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Verbal descriptive ability.....kinda awkward perhaps,maybe,so VDA kinda suits a bit better,yes ?

No, that's even more awkward.

If you said VDA to someone, you'd just have to explain what the feck it meant, which is even worse.

Rasheed · 24-02-2013 5:28pm

Never heard of that term 'Verbal Descriptive Ability'. Hard to get a good commentator now that has it.

Actually it reminds me, I was reading the insert about Con Houlihan with the independent yesterday.

He was describing that famous Kerry goal against Dublin in the All Ireland in '78.

'Mick Sheehy was running up to take the kick- and suddenly Paddy dashed back towards his goal like a woman who smells a cake burning. The ball won the race and it curled inside the near post as Paddy crashed into the outside of the net and lay against it like a fireman who had returned to find his station ablaze.'

I thought those words painted the picture of what happened so well. Read the words then watch the clip.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=juYmKSYQiy0

(From 0.22 sec)

mewithoutyou · 24-02-2013 5:52pm

We should be allowed to speak English in whatever way us Irish like, they're a bunch of posh saps anyway who just over pronounce everything. I often throw a few words 'as gaelige' in here and there when I speak because I don't want to abide by British scum's rules.

AlekSmart · 24-02-2013 6:27pm

mewithoutyou wrote: »

We should be allowed to speak English in whatever way us Irish like, they're a bunch of posh saps anyway who just over pronounce everything. I often throw a few words 'as gaelige' in here and there when I speak because I don't want to abide by British scum's rules.

Quite mewithoutu,I'm particularly taken by this example of under pronunciation....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nrMNcGFVCo

The Kweens English.

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