If asked about co-worker for unofficial reference

Meteoric

This might be better in Legal Issues, not sure and please move if appropriate, but if I work with someone who I could not recommend for any job anywhere and if someone asked me for an unofficial reference (as in the person asking knows me and that I must have worked with this person and ask me in no official capacity what I think about this person) would I be able to say what this person has done or should I have to just say I'm not able to give this person any recommendation and can't say anything else (which is what I think I should do but would that be the same as saying something bad?).
The person would probably try to take legal action if they somehow found out I'd told the truth about them to anyone. (I do realise the chances of him/her finding this out are small but it is possible)
Ireland is small and the pool of people who do my sort of job is small and you end up meeting a lot of the same people at Industry events a lot of whom I've worked with before so I can potentially see this happening, just not sure what I can/cannot say.
I know that as it is unofficial I have no official obligation to the potential employer and I would love the person concerned to leave so we don't have to put up with them, so saying they were good to work with would cost me nothing other than loosing my good name once they find out the truth about this person and would make my life easier but I could not in good conscience say anything to recommend this person.

TLDR If I can't recommend someone what can I say and not get in trouble?

Gmol

If you want rid don't lie but concentrate on their strengths.

Meteoric

Gmol wrote: »

If you want rid don't lie but concentrate on their strengths.

Honestly there is not a single strength, every other person I've worked with I could come up with something but this person not one. Lazy, thinks rules apply to everyone else not them, not sticking to break times, causes trouble for everyone else, refuses to do parts of the job they do not want to do, refuses to get trained for the things they do not want to do.
Unless the ability to twist things to blame other people for your mistakes is a positive strength I'm at a loss what I could say that is not negative. I'm still thinking just refusing to say anything is the way to go

Stheno

When called for a reference and told who it is, respond after a few seconds, and go, ok what are your questions?

Answer with "I'd prefer not to comment on that area of their work" or some such response.

You are not saying anything negative, just not endorsing them.

When asked if you would rehire, say it would be unlikely.

That's what I'd do anyway.

tony81

Legal threats if you tell the truth.. damage to your reputation if you tell a lie? (sorta nonsense, op, def not one for legal issues)

Just don't say anything. Tell the person you don't know enough about their work to be able to recommend them. That's as good as a bad reference.

mathepac

Meteoric wrote: »

... if I work with someone who I could not recommend for any job anywhere and if someone asked me for an unofficial reference (as in the person asking knows me and that I must have worked with this person and ask me in no official capacity what I think about this person) would I be able to say what this person has done or should I have to just say I'm not able to give this person any recommendation and can't say anything else (which is what I think I should do but would that be the same as saying something bad?). ...

Officially only the HR Dept or immediate superior issues references, you are not in a position to comment or barred from commenting on pain of death, one way or another. A storm in a tea-cup really, you're wrecking your own head about nothing.

Meteoric

Stheno wrote: »

When called for a reference and told who it is, respond after a few seconds, and go, ok what are your questions?

Answer with "I'd prefer not to comment on that area of their work" or some such response.

You are not saying anything negative, just not endorsing them.

When asked if you would rehire, say it would be unlikely.

That's what I'd do anyway.

Yea that is what I was thinking just was worried.

tony81 wrote: »

Legal threats if you tell the truth.. damage to your reputation if you tell a lie? (sorta nonsense, op, def not one for legal issues)

Just don't say anything. Tell the person you don't know enough about their work to be able to recommend them. That's as good as a bad reference.

It does sound like it should be nonsense, but I know the person concerned has got solicitors involved with a bad internal performance review so it would seem the same thing would happen if I did not lie and they found out, I have worked with this person in the same role for more then three years so claiming I don't know about their work would be a lie easily exposed
I don't lie, and as far as I'm concerned a lot of my professional reputation is based on people knowing I can be trusted I just need to know can I refuse to recommend someone

Meteoric

mathepac wrote: »

Officially only the HR Dept or immediate superior issues references, you are not in a position to comment or barred from commenting on pain of death, one way or another. A storm in a tea-cup really, you're wrecking your own head about nothing.

Cool that is good to hear, just having heard about solicitors being involved in a performance review got worried

tony81

Meteoric wrote: »

I don't lie, and as far as I'm concerned a lot of my professional reputation is based on people knowing I can be trusted I just need to know can I refuse to recommend someone

Of course you can refuse to recommend someone. You have no legal obligation to provide a reference and with few exceptions (reporting child abuse) you can't be sued for something you didn't do.

Gmol

Meteoric wrote: »

Honestly there is not a single strength, every other person I've worked with I could come up with something but this person not one. Lazy, thinks rules apply to everyone else not them, not sticking to break times, causes trouble for everyone else, refuses to do parts of the job they do not want to do, refuses to get trained for the things they do not want to do.
Unless the ability to twist things to blame other people for your mistakes is a positive strength I'm at a loss what I could say that is not negative. I'm still thinking just refusing to say anything is the way to go

Hi ya easy from what you say.
Thinks outside box, problem focused. Cannot think of anything negative to say.....t

petersburg2002

This guy won't get anywhere threatening people with solicitors for poor reviews. The truth hurts sometimes. A former colleague of mine sued our employer for unfair dismissal. As a result, if you Google his name(as many prospective employers do these days) the first thing that comes up is the entire Labour Court transcript . As a result he has been blacklisted by potential employers and he is still unemployed two years later.

visual

OP you used the words professional reputation

A professional person would decline to give a reference unofficially or not on a work colleague and refer the requst to HR or manager.

Its your own integrity and reputation that is on the line by disclosing any information about work colleagues to 3rd parties. If your belong to a professional body you would have agreed to abide by a code of etiques and your company may also have policies on this subject.

Jim2007

mathepac wrote: »

Officially only the HR Dept or immediate superior issues references, you are not in a position to comment or barred from commenting on pain of death, one way or another. A storm in a tea-cup really, you're wrecking your own head about nothing.

Exactly, the OP should simply state that the are not authorised to give references on behalf of there employer and leave it at that.

Jim2007

Meteoric wrote: »

I just need to know can I refuse to recommend someone

Don't refuse to comment, because that in itself may be interpreted as a statement. Simply tell the truth - "I'm sorry, I'm not authorised to give out references on behalf of the company, I suggest you speak to HR or the person's team leader" and leave it at that.

hyperborean

Unless you were the persons supervisor/manager you need to refuse a request for work references.


No middle ground

Ray Palmer

If somebody I knew asked me about somebody I worked with I would tell them. I am not giving a reference and not legally restricted. Once you aren't lying or giving 2nd hand information there should be no problem.

I think the reactions here seem to be over board.

I have told people I didn't like somebody or their style but there work was good. Even how to handle certain people.

byronbay2

You should paraphrase the old Ron Atkinson line, when asked about the referee's performance, while being interviewed after a match his team had lost:
“I never comment on referees and I'm not going to break the habit of a lifetime for that prat” - that'll get the message across alright!

Nody

Simply cover your ass and say you can not give a reference as per company policy; please speak to our HR department for further details. No need to lie, no need to put yourself on the line.

I've even used the above on a direct report who (ab)used me as a reference one to many (changed jobs like 6 times in 3 months and he was not a good direct report to start with and never bothered to ask me if he could use me over and over again).

Jim2007

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If somebody I knew asked me about somebody I worked with I would tell them. I am not giving a reference and not legally restricted. Once you aren't lying or giving 2nd hand information there should be no problem.

I think the reactions here seem to be over board.

I have told people I didn't like somebody or their style but there work was good. Even how to handle certain people.

Please read the original post, the OP wants to avoid giving a reference :rolleyes:

Jim2007

Nody wrote: »

I've even used the above on a direct report who (ab)used me as a reference one to many (changed jobs like 6 times in 3 months and he was not a good direct report to start with and never bothered to ask me if he could use me over and over again).

It always amazes me how people feel free to give your name, without even asking!

tbh

Meteoric wrote: »

as in the person asking knows me and that I must have worked with this person and ask me in no official capacity what I think about this person

"He worked with us from 2005 to 2010 and that's all I feel comfortable saying"

mitosis

"I believe if you have nothing good to say you should say nothing"

tricky D

tbh wrote: »

"He worked with us from 2005 to 2010 and that's all I feel comfortable saying"

And his role was ...

Avoid any opinion or anything which might require proof, apart from role and dates.

Meteoric

Thanks for all the input, it does really help, of course if it is someone you don't personally know who asks you can say " I can't comment because I'm not in a position to do so" but when it is someone you worked with for a while and have a good relationship with who just asks "So how are they to work with?" it's a different situation.
Like I said I've never worked with anyone else who I couldn't come up with lots of positive things to say without mentioning their weaknesses which I would never do to anyone else.
But I'm actually scared of what would happen if this person found out that I had said anything negative about them (this should give some idea about what this person is like to work with) I really don't want to end up in court.
As I said it really is a small pool of people who do our job so thanks for the opinions and how to protect myself and my professional reputation, I will take them all on board