is this science fiction??

fryup

Could this manoeuvre be pulled off in real life or is it hokum?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sAxrWl5DGU

E.S.T.

No

http://blogs.airspacemag.com/view/2012/11/is-denzels-upside-down-flying-trick-plausible/

boboldpilot

In theory it's is possible in the fictional aircraft depicted. In reality it's unlikely, more modern aircraft wouldn't even allow the aircraft to roll inverted. In the circumstances depicted it would probably end very badly. With the right aircraft in the hands of the right pilot in ideal conditions, rolling inverted could be done and famously the prototype 707 did just that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHiYA6Dmws

But the movie is not that accurate in aviation terms like most movies. Generally it's a character study about heroes and their human frailties.

But what the hell is that big 'manual reversion lever' in the cockpit. New one on me!:D

L1011

I.thought the movie used an md80? Albeit probably a prop cockpit

LeftBase

MYOB wrote: »

I.thought the movie used an md80? Albeit probably a prop cockpit

It's a mix of several jets. Md-80/Crj100/DC-9 so as not to single out a certain type and but the wind up passengers.

I saw the film and had to say that while it tells a decent enough story the flight sequence although better than some offerings I've seen in the past was a little far fetched. Deploying the gear and flaps at high speed for example......broken screw jack would the least of your problems then.....

donkey balls

About 20 yrs ago a Fedex DC10-30F Flt 705 was hijacked by a crew member intent on crashing the aircraft in to the hub at Memphis,The aircraft&crew was put through some serious speeds including inverted flight but managed to get it on the deck.
As for movies the same company as above was I think the only ever Airline to allow one of their aircraft to actually crash for a movie ala Castaway,Even then the thoughts that Tom Hanks could just get out of his car and walk past security and straight on to the aircraft was a bit much.
And when he boards the aircraft which is either an A300/310 you know from the pax door being forward towards the capt window,Yet during the cock pit scene you see the pilots control yoke and the layout is of an MD11-30F,Then you have the G Net pushing foward as the ULD slids but yet they don't have the smoke screen up.
The likes of film makers want to make these movies more appealing to the joe soap that wouldn't know much about what there watching.

andy_g

donkey balls wrote: »

About 20 yrs ago a Fedex DC10-30F Flt 705 was hijacked by a crew member intent on crashing the aircraft in to the hub at Memphis,.

He wasnt planning on crashing into the facility at Memphis he was in financial difficulties, and planned to crash the plane so the family could claim the life insurance.

donkey balls

andy_g wrote: »

He wasnt planning on crashing into the facility at Memphis he was in financial difficulties, and planned to crash the plane so the family could claim the life insurance.

Yeah into the hub as he was going be fired by Fedex for cooking his log books.

amen

not a pilot but i think plausible. There is the Fedex mentioned below, the 737s with the rudder hardover of which one survived and landed, china air late 80s/early 90s, colgan air atr (ran out of air)

bombs away

I was under the impression that the air alaska incident in which this movie is part based was able to fly for a short period inverted before it crashed

I'd imagine structurally the fuselage would be able to take it but the engines are not designed for sustained inverted flight.

LeftBase

You could fly a lot of aircraft inverted...flying LEVEL while inverted is more the issue

Dr.Rieux

Not exactly flying inverted but Concorde has done a barrel roll so did fly inverted briefly

http://youtu.be/KYQS3qAIjAo

I hope the link works, on mobile

bombs away

LeftBase wrote: »

You could fly a lot of aircraft inverted...flying LEVEL while inverted is more the issue

Why exactly would flying level be an issue inverted

Irish Steve

Wings on a commercial jet are set up to provide lots of lift in the normal "up" direction, and don't work well (if at all) when inverted, an aircraft designed for inverted flight will have a very different aerodynamic profile.

The barrel roll correctly performed will still be maintaining "G" in the conventional down direction, (positive G) all the way round, so even when inverted, a glass of water on the table won't end up on the roof.

Straight and level inverted flight is a very different scenario, anything not strapped down or in will move, rapidly and possibly dangerously.

If level, the wing still produces lift in its "up" direction, so gravity and the lift in the wrong direction will produce an extremely rapid acceleration in the "up" direction, which if inverted is of course "down", so level flight it is most assuredly not.:D:D:D

And if you can make sense of that, you've been drinking, and I promise I have not been, though maybe I should ;):o

LeftBase

bombs away wrote: »

Why exactly would flying level be an issue inverted

Most airliner's aerofoils are not designed to sustain level flight when upside down. They are designed to give max lift in a certain direction and now that direction is the same as the weight is acting. I'd also imagine your fuel pumps would be seriously under pressure to pump against gravity for any great length of time!

donkey balls

LeftBase wrote: »

Most airliner's aerofoils are not designed to sustain level flight when upside down. They are designed to give max lift in a certain direction and now that direction is the same as the weight is acting. I'd also imagine your fuel pumps would be seriously under pressure to pump against gravity for any great length of time!

+ The slosh effect of the fuel flowing around both in the wings and center tank with fuel payloads from 10/50000kgs depending on aircraft type and destination.

Irish Steve

donkey balls wrote: »

+ The slosh effect of the fuel flowing around both in the wings and center tank with fuel payloads from 10/50000kgs depending on aircraft type and destination.

and an even quicker problem issue is likely to be the total absence of oil to lubricate the engine bearings, as the suction lines would be sucking air very quickly. That tends to cause damage very rapidly.

Hydraulic systems might also suck air, depending on the tank design. That can lead to problems with the assist on flight controls, or even locking if they are fully powered controls. Not exactly helpful if you're already struggling to make it do what you want rather than what it's trying to do.

Commercial aircraft are not designed or certified for inverted flight. If it happens, it certainly wasn't deliberate, and the consequences are likely to add to the problems rather than alleviate them, recovering from inverted flight stands a very good chance of causing significantly damaging overloads of fundamental things like wing spars etc.

Most crews are not going to have been trained in inverted recovery, and even if they have been, the physical disorientation caused by the upset will be so different from the experience in a simulator, which can't be inverted, there's a good chance that the crew will have serious problems recognising and dealing with an involuntary inversion.

Not because they're not professionals, but because they are unlikely to ever have experienced anything like it, most light aircraft used for training are not certified for inverted flight, the only people that should have sufficient experience to recognise and deal with inverted flight will be the (now few) ex military pilots that were flying fast interceptor type jets before moving into commercial aviation.