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Landlord controlled heating?

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  • 21-02-2013 10:10am
    #1
    KevinGossRoss
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭


    Our LL controls the heating of our one bedroom apartment, which is then part of our rent. This arrangement was odd but acceptable for some time. The LL would have the heating on for an hour in the morning and then an hour or two at night, leaving us shivering the rest of the time so we'd keep the bedroom and bathroom doors closed to eave the living area/kitchen acceptably warm and livable. As much as we thought he was taking advantage to some extent we understood that he's a landlord and this is business to him. The longer the heating is on, the less money he gets from this apartment.

    Now, however, he has switched off the heating completely. We had a week of pleasant weather but we're back to 2 degrees Celsius and the heating hasn't come back on again. I've researched this as much as possible and I really don't like making a scene with the letting agents/LL but from what I can gather this is part of what he has to provide by law:

    7. Heating Facilities

    7. (1) Every room used, or intended for use, by the tenant of the house as a habitable room shall contain:
    (a) a permanently fixed appliance or appliances capable of providing effective heating,
    (b) suitable and adequate facilities for the safe and effective removal of fumes and other products of combustion to the external air.
    (2) The operation of any appliance referred to in sub-article (1)(a) shall be capable of being independently manageable by the tenant.

    We have no control over heating. Surely this isn't normal/legal by this very bit of information? Our flat is also fairly damp - could this also be as a result of a lack of heating? We don't have a vent in the shower room and so we have to leave the window open whilst showering and for some time after to prevent mold and this doesn't help the cold situation either.

    As I said I don't want to aggravate the situation with the landlord unless I have a leg to stand on. He's a very unpleasant, aggressive guy and we'll be out the minute our 1 year lease is up. Can't wait.
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Peanut2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Peanut2011


    KevinGossRoss wrote: »
    Our LL controls the heating of our one bedroom apartment, which is then part of our rent. This arrangement was odd but acceptable for some time.


    As much as we thought he was taking advantage to some extent we understood that he's a landlord and this is business to him. The longer the heating is on, the less money he gets from this apartment.



    We have no control over heating. Surely this isn't normal/legal by this very bit of information?


    OP I have left the parts that I think are significant. You say you signed up for the lease full well knowing that the heating is controlled by LL and that the heating is included in your rent.

    Unless you have had heading time schedule agreed as well I don't really know what the problem is?? Surely you can go and buy electric heater or one of those electric oil rads and heat extra if you need??

    I could be way off mark but if I was the LL I would point to the fact that you signed up to the lease full well knowing the whole situation.


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    #3
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Peanut2011 wrote: »
    OP I have left the parts that I think are significant. You say you signed up for the lease full well knowing that the heating is controlled by LL and that the heating is included in your rent.

    Unless you have had heading time schedule agreed as well I don't really know what the problem is?? Surely you can go and buy electric heater or one of those electric oil rads and heat extra if you need??

    I could be way off mark but if I was the LL I would point to the fact that you signed up to the lease full well knowing the whole situation.

    A lease agreement can't circumvent the regulations. In saying that it should have raised alarm bells. Sounds like a house that was divided and the LL didn't split the heating system due to the inconvenience and cost.

    OP yes you are in the right to have control over the heating. The LL has put himself in a bit of a silly situation as you can insist on 24hour heating and he has to cover the cost. The best he can do is leave it on all the time and give you termostatic valves on the radiators.


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    #4
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    What kind of apartment is it? Is it a converted attic or something as part of the landlords house?

    Why is there the need for such a ridiculous arrangement anyway? Can you not just control your own heating and pay for what you use?

    To be honest if it were me Id be looking to do away with such an arrangement and just get a couple of electric heaters that you can control yourself.


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    #5
    KevinGossRoss
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭KevinGossRoss


    Well you're obviously a LL.

    It is 2 degrees Celsius outside. The flat isn't much warmer than that. I rented the apartment expecting it to be heated enough to make it comfortable. As it is now I can hardly type: my fingers are that cold. I agreed to the rent amount because I understood that heating was included. I'm not interested in spending extra money purchasing heaters and then running them if I was promised heating included in my rent.

    To back that up, the Statutory Instruments (S.I. No. 534 of 2008 available here: http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,19142,en.pdf) states fairly clearly that the following has to be provided:

    Heating Facilities
    7. (1) Every room used, or intended for use, by the tenant of the house as
    a habitable room shall contain:6 [534]
    (a) a permanently fixed appliance or appliances capable of providing
    effective heating,
    (b) suitable and adequate facilities for the safe and effective removal of
    fumes and other products of combustion to the external air.
    (2) The operation of any appliance referred to in sub-article (1)(a) shall be
    capable of being independently manageable by the tenant.


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    #6
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Put that in writing and send it to the landlord. Tell him that your situation is not acceptable, that the property is currently not habitable in its current state.


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    #7
    KevinGossRoss
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭KevinGossRoss


    djimi wrote: »
    What kind of apartment is it? Is it a converted attic or something as part of the landlords house?

    Why is there the need for such a ridiculous arrangement anyway? Can you not just control your own heating and pay for what you use?

    To be honest if it were me Id be looking to do away with such an arrangement and just get a couple of electric heaters that you can control yourself.

    It's a house divided into 6 smaller apartments. The LL doesn't live on the premises. Who is best to talk to about this? Do I approach the letting agent?


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    #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    KevinGossRoss wrote: »
    ........Do I approach the letting agent?

    If that's who you are dealing with than yes, insist on heating being on all the time during the winter months.

    Is the tenancy registered with the PRTB?
    Is there a BER cert??


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    #9
    KevinGossRoss
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭KevinGossRoss


    RoverJames wrote: »
    If that's who you are dealing with than yes, insist on heating being on all the time during the winter months.

    Is the tenancy registered with the PRTB?
    Is there a BER cert??

    Hi there. I let it through Capital Properties in Aungier Street... they seemed very above board. How would I find out whether it is registered/if there is a BER certificate?


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    #10
    KevinGossRoss
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭KevinGossRoss


    I found the list of registered properties. Flat 5 and 6 at the same address are registered but I can't find our flat number, and they are all owned by the same LL.


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    #11
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    KevinGossRoss wrote: »
    I found the list of registered properties. Flat 5 and 6 at the same address are registered but I can't find our flat number, and they are all owned by the same LL.
    Before you are told by various people about all the power you have if there is no BER or PRTB registration sned a letter to the letting agent about the issue. Get a themometer so you actually know the temperature inside and keep a track of it.
    Going through the PRTB and threat levels that will ultimately be advised is lond winded and not realistic in most cases. Nobody responds well to threats.

    Better yet get all the tenants to send in the same letter of complaint. If they aren't bothered then the chances are it is your perception but that is why using a themometer can prove your point.


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    #12
    Bigcheeze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Bigcheeze


    Don't be worrying about BER and PRTB at this stage. People throw this stuff into every letting thread and it's a distraction.

    You haven't even spoken to the landlord/agency yet. That is your first step and it may well rectify the situation but you won't know till you raise it with them.


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    #13
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Just to be clear, the PRTB is not a "distraction"; it is a very valid route that you may have to take if you wish to get out of your lease early due to this matter.

    However I agree you need to have your case build properly first before considering this option. Getting a thermometer and measuring the temperatures is the first step; this gives you something to go back to the landlord/agency with.


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The first step is contacting them to inform them the heating hasn't been on for a week or two and to insist it goes back on.

    You don't need a thermometer to know it's too cold in the flat when that's the case.


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    #15
    Rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Rasmus


    I would get onto the letting agent immediately and ask them to put on the heat. That would be the first step before thinking about PRTB or BER certs. Although it is ridiculous that the LL hasn't put on the heat, you have to give him a chance to rectify this before filing a complaint.


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    #16
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    Sounds like a pre 63 conversion. Landlord controlled heating was perfectly legal in these until a couple of weeks ago. Looks like your LL didn't bother to comply. I'd talk to your Council as they have responsibility for this.

    http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/bedsit-rental-prices-779134-Feb2013/


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    #17
    KevinGossRoss
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭KevinGossRoss


    The LL is about this morning so I think the email to our letting agents worked. If the heating isn't on regularly I'll most definately request a system which we can control as should already be in place by law.


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    #18
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    1st step should always be to try to get talking directly with the LL and explain the problem without any aggression or hostility and see what he says.

    I used to rent an apartment in an old Georgian House and the LL, who was a great guy, specifically showed me the heating timer controls so I could set the on/off times for myself and the other tenants in the house according to the weather. I guess he just didnt want the hassle of driving over to change the timer everytime the weather changed which, in fairness can be every few days in Ireland.


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