If Mike Ross was Euan Murray

Larbre34

It's well known that Euan Murray does not allow himself to be selected for games held on a Sunday, on religious grounds.

I don't know how this goes down in Scotland, but what if it were an Irish Player, at tighthead or outhalf perhaps?

.ak

Larbre34 wrote: »

It's well known that Euan Murray does not allow himself to be selected for games held on a Sunday, on religious grounds.

I don't know how this goes down in Scotland, but what if it were an Irish Player, at tighthead or outhalf perhaps?

TBH I don't see this thread lasting long, as the question you're asking if more for the religious based than rugby, but let's see how it goes.

opinionatedfan

fair play he has religious beliefs, i wouldnt agree with them but Ireland and Leinster would have to prioritize the development and playing of other tighthead's

Podge_irl

He's upfront with it and everyone at Scotland and Northampton knew about it in advance. If they choose to still select him then everyone is obviously ok with the situation.

I imagine it lowers his wages at Northampton.

If it were Ross I would be frustrated but again you know plenty in advance. Its not like he rocks up some weeks and decides **** it, I don't like the look of this game I'm not playing this week.

Larbre34

Poll added.

P_1

It has happened in the past, it will happen again.

The players owe us nothing, if for whatever reason (religion, injury, partner going into labour, etc) they can't play on a particular day its really none of our business

Teferi

If for whatever reason a player decides they can not play on a day when a match could possibly be played on I imagine it would hit their pay packet. Their contract would simply be worth less.

Also as soon as their is competition for the jersey the coach would obviously go with the player who makes himself available all the time.

Podge_irl

P_1 wrote: »

It has happened in the past, it will happen again.

The players owe us nothing, if for whatever reason (religion, injury, partner going into labour, etc) they can't play on a particular day its really none of our business

As I mentioned above, I would expect and hope to be paying them less though.

P_1

Podge_irl wrote: »

As I mentioned above, I would expect and hope to be paying them less though.

Of course, it'd be like a normal job, say you can't do a particular shift, you don't get paid for it

clsmooth

Michael Jones was another who didn't play on Sundays. I think that's why he didn't get selected in the AB squad in 95

Larbre34

P_1 wrote: »

It has happened in the past, it will happen again.

The players owe us nothing, if for whatever reason (religion, injury, partner going into labour, etc) they can't play on a particular day its really none of our business

I would agree with every word of that if the person was an amateur.

Ulster Rugby who have a strong Christian cohort dealt with it well last year when the ERC QF was scheduled for Easter Sunday. They expressed their disappointment with the fixture, sought a change if possible, and when it wasnt possible they turned up and played out of their skin.

toomevara

I admire the guy for it. No doubt he's not insensible to the real difficulty that his position on Sunday play has on his career and his team mates. He's a thoughtful, intelligent chap and frankly I find it refreshing in the modern world of programmed, two-dimensional sports automata that someone takes a stand for their personal beliefs. After all a rugby career is, in the grand scheme of things, a tiny part of anyone's life, Whereas your faith is something you carry with you through life. More power to him.

P_1

Larbre34 wrote: »

I would agree with every word of that if the person was an amateur.

Ulster Rugby who have a strong Christian cohort dealt with it well last year when the ERC QF was scheduled for Easter Sunday. They expressed their disappointment with the fixture, sought a change if possible, and when it wasnt possible they turned up and played out of their skin.

Well it works the same way as you or I taking a day off from work, i.e. you don't get paid for it.

In this case the player would miss out on their appearance fee for the match.

boynesider

Tbh I wouldn't describe anyone who takes such a literal interpretation of the Old Testament to be in anyway thoughtful or intelligent. If he truly believes that the idea of not working on the sabbath is rigid and non-negotiable, it must be because he truly believes that God created the world in 6 days a few thousand years ago and rested on the seventh. (an idea which is quite frankly barmy).

It is also worth noting that the Biblical verse which says that no work should be done on a sunday also says that anyone who breaks this rule shall be "put to death". Does Murray also believe this part, and if not why not?

Of course no one can deny that it is his choice and no one else's, but if I was a Scottish rugby supporter I would be pretty peeved off at his attitude, especially when they have one of their best chances to beat Ireland in years. I wouldn't imagine his teammates are too happy about it either.

Teferi

boynesider wrote: »

Tbh I wouldn't describe anyone who takes such a literal interpretation of the Old Testament to be in anyway thoughtful or intelligent. If he truly believes that the idea of not working on the sabbath is rigid and non-negotiable, it must be because he truly believes that God created the world in 6 days a few thousand years ago and rested on the seventh. (an idea which is quite frankly barmy).

It is also worth noting that the Biblical verse which says that no work should be done on a sunday also says that anyone who breaks this rule shall be "put to death". Does Murray also believe this part, and if not why not?

The Atheism forum is leaking.

Quick! Someone plug it up.

awec

IMO if you rule yourself out of playing on a specific day you rule yourself out of playing entirely.

kingtiger

Six nations rugby should never be on a Sunday, its a travesty to us working drinking men

all matches should be on Saturday but I did like the Friday night games

errlloyd

I have a mate who won't play for our tag rugby team on a Sunday. Pretty mental

opinionatedfan

kingtiger wrote: »

Six nations rugby should never be on a Sunday, its a travesty to us working drinking men

all matches should be on Saturday but I did like the Friday night games

id agree, go with three games on saturday for me with the odd friday nighter.

boynesider

Teferi wrote: »

The Atheism forum is leaking.

Quick! Someone plug it up.

Nah just common sense.

Most Christians would agree also. Sure didn't the Catholic church back the GAA so heavily in its early days as a way of stopping young lads beating the heads off each other after Sunday Mass?

toomevara

boynesider wrote: »

Tbh I wouldn't describe anyone who takes such a literal interpretation of the Old Testament to be in anyway thoughtful or intelligent. If he truly believes that the idea of not working on the sabbath is rigid and non-negotiable, it must be because he truly believes that God created the world in 6 days a few thousand years ago and rested on the seventh. (an idea which is quite frankly barmy).

It is also worth noting that the Biblical verse which says that no work should be done on a sunday also says that anyone who breaks this rule shall be "put to death". Does Murray also believe this part, and if not why not?

Of course no one can deny that it is his choice and no one else's, but if I was a Scottish rugby supporter I would be pretty peeved off at his attitude, especially when they have one of their best chances to beat Ireland in years. I wouldn't imagine his teammates are too happy about it either.

Yeah, wrong forum, so I'll say no more. But with all due respect,you don't know what murray believes. For most practicing christians honouring the sabbath isn't about old testament dictat and slaughtering fatted calfs, its more about creating a space in the week for practicing your faith....Anyway I'm off to the religion forum, i quite like these theological shenanigans....who knew?

jacothelad

boynesider wrote: »

It is also worth noting that the Biblical verse which says that no work should be done on a sunday also says that anyone who breaks this rule shall be "put to death". Does Murray also believe this part, and if not why not?

Of course no one can deny that it is his choice and no one else's, but if I was a Scottish rugby supporter I would be pretty peeved off at his attitude, especially when they have one of their best chances to beat Ireland in years. I wouldn't imagine his teammates are too happy about it either.

Faulty memory there.

20th march 2010. Ireland 20 - Scotland 23
6th August 2011 Scotland 10 - Ireland 6

pickarooney

I guess it depends on what kind of cover they have but at the same time if a player is good enough to cover TH in a big 6N game I'd consider he was good enough to start the other matches and pick him every time.

Tim Robbins

I am possibly one of the most atheist posters here (currently serving a ban on the Christianity forum) and I would accept it.

As long as Euan does not force his opinions on others well then I would feel obliged to ensure he has a right to hold them.

However, if Mike Ross decided to adopt these opinions and we had no cover I would send him a few Richard Dawkins books and ask he tog out :-)

boynesider

jacothelad wrote: »

Faulty memory there.

20th march 2010. Ireland 20 - Scotland 23
6th August 2011 Scotland 10 - Ireland 6

Forgot about Croke Park.

Still haven't beaten Ireland in a meaningful game in Murrayfield since 2001, something which I know for a fact embarrasses a lot of Scottish rugby people.

totallegend

boynesider wrote: »

Tbh I wouldn't describe anyone who takes such a literal interpretation of the Old Testament to be in anyway thoughtful or intelligent. If he truly believes that the idea of not working on the sabbath is rigid and non-negotiable, it must be because he truly believes that God created the world in 6 days a few thousand years ago and rested on the seventh. (an idea which is quite frankly barmy).

It is also worth noting that the Biblical verse which says that no work should be done on a sunday also says that anyone who breaks this rule shall be "put to death". Does Murray also believe this part, and if not why not?

I'd consider myself an atheist but I find the above post pretty offensive.

This thread has no business on the rugby forum.

Zuffer

You shouldn't (and can't) force someone to play when they don't want to. It's his choice. I wouldn't go so far as to say I respect his choice. I disagree with his reasons.

Once a player has made their position clear, it's up to his coaches and managers to decide if its worth working around his restricted availability or dropping him from the panel. The manager should make the decision purely on rugby grounds. Does what he brings to the team when he is available outweigh the disruption caused when he's not?

[Jackass]

Perfectly acceptable.

Religious beliefs are peoples fundemental values, bigger than any profession or sport and if their strength of belief makes them not wish to disrespect their God / religion by doing certain acts, such as playing on a Sunday, then absolutely it should be respected.

Regarding the poll "he's a professional" and should get on with it, employment law would disagree with discriminating against someone on the basis of religion or forcing a religious / work conflict on them.

If it's such a worry for the employer (which I dont believe it is), they shouldn't keep offering him a contract.

RuggieBear

eh. no.


Christianity/Atheist forum is more suited for this.

justsomebloke

Ok this thread is purely for the topic of how people's faith/believes impact on their ability to play rugby.

THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DEBATE THE RIGHTS OR WRONGS OF ANYONE FAITH. EVERYONE HERE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN BELIEVES. SO IF YOU TAKE A POP SHOT AT ANYONE'S FAITH OR BELIEVES YOU WILL INFRACTED OR BANNED

edit: ah it's closed anyway