School leavers dole payment is it too much?

tolow

Hi folks,

This is a topic that really gets me angry at times. I'm 20 and currently studying in university. My father pays my registration fees. It has been a real struggle lately getting the money together. I have applied for grants and student assistance funds etc but i'm not eligible for any funding, they say my father earns over the threshold etc, and before people say well you must not need any support I do, its a real struggle saving every penney trying to get through college.

What really bugs me is the fact that I have some friends who left school and after six months were eligible to receive social welfare payments of 100 euro a week, while I receive no funding to help me through college. If I was to decide to leave college due to the financial difficulties I would receive a dole payment off 100 euro a week after being out of full time education after six months.

I just feel the whole system doesn't make any sense. I'm trying to further myself by getting a degree while others who decide to do nothing receive a payment every week from the government.

I personally think 100 euro a week is too much money for a 18/19/20 year old who has left school and never worked a day in their life. I just feel that if the government continue to give dole payments like this to people who have just left school it will never motivate these people to do anything with their lives.

I have discussed this matter with a lot of people and some agree and some think i'm crazy and believe these school leavers deserve this rather generous weekly dole payment, and some people may think I am jealous of these people.

Anyway I would just like to see what others think about this topic.

Prodigious

Completely agree. No incentive to stay in college. Theoretically speaking I'd be better off if my parents kicked me out of the house next year.

efb

How much does the state contribute to your 3rd level education? More than €5,200

hfallada

Well that's what you call opportunity cost. Paying for something now so you have the benefits in the future. Will they maybe getting €100 a week hopefully when you graduate youll be getting around €400-500 increasing over time. While they will still be getting they €100 something.

Look at the future and not now.

longhalloween

efb wrote: »

How much does the state contribute to your 3rd level education? More than €5,200

I think it's 2500 a year.

I wouldn't agree with anyone being paid to go to college, but it would be nice to get subsidised meals and accommodation for the time when you're in college, kinda like a student rent allowance.

SCOOP 64

Who would want to be on €100 a week for the rest of their lives.

UDP

longhalloween wrote: »

kinda like a student rent allowance.

like a grant of some sort?

MarkyMark22

nig1 wrote: »

Who would want to be on €100 a week for the rest of their lives.

You'd be surprised.

UDP

longhalloween wrote: »

I think it's 2500 a year.

Non eu fees are normally €7-8k so I think the courses are subsidised by about €5k.

wolfpawnat

For some college is not an option, it's sad really. They may not have had the education they deserve, no parents pushing them, and college is fairly costly for some even with grants. In this climate there are toss all jobs and little opportunities, so for some, it is the only option.

however

Any idiot that thinks the SW is there to be easy money rather than working to achieve anything in their lives needs a nice large kick in the rear end. The SW was created to look after people in need, not lazy pains!

tolow

I do understand the whole thing that the government contribute towards my fees but I just feel it doesn't make sense that there are a lot of students in my position who could possibly have to leave college due to their financial situation while there are others getting 5200 euro a year to sit at home nd do nothing not counting medical cards etc.

There is just no incentive for some people to further themselves when they are 18 or 19 and receiving 100 euro a week of the state.

tolow

I agree with your point about the social welfare but I honestly feel that 100 euro a week is a lot of money for someone to receive who has just left school and not contributed to the country with any taxes etc.

I know a lot of lads/girls the same age as me who can comfortably survive on their 100 euro a week while there are others going to college struggling to pay fees whilst trying to better themselves in life.

sunbeam

UDP wrote: »

Non eu fees are normally €7-8k so I think the courses are subsidised by about €5k.

In NUIG typical non EU fees range from €12,750 for Arts/Commerce/Law to €31,000 for Medicine.

longhalloween

UDP wrote: »

Non eu fees are normally €7-8k so I think the courses are subsidised by about €5k.

You can check online. I know for the 3 years of an ordinary degree it's around 2.5k. For the last year it's bout 4k.

con1421

I agree it's shocking. I know people who have never worked a day in their lives and have been claiming the dole for over 4 years. One guy in particular that I know wont even get a job even though he has been offered numerous jobs on different occasions. Over the Christmas he spent the whole night complaining that he never has anything to do so i offered him a job in a bar that I work at. He replied by saying no i don't want a job cause I won't be able to get my dole then. This is the attitude of the new generation of young 20 year olds. I can guarantee you that this time 5 years from now he will still be unemployed with no education or nothing to fall back on

efb

longhalloween wrote: »

I think it's 2500 a year.

I wouldn't agree with anyone being paid to go to college, but it would be nice to get subsidised meals and accommodation for the time when you're in college, kinda like a student rent allowance.

No, higher.

ahnowbrowncow

This always confuses me, why is someone who has never worked a day in their lives entitled to €100 p/w and then €188 p/w when over 25 but if you've been self employed for the last 30 years and paid tens of thousands in tax and possibly employed other people you are entitled to nothing?

There's something massively wrong with that.

tolow

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

This always confuses me, why is someone who has never worked a day in their lives entitled to €100 p/w and then €188 p/w when over 25 but if you've been self employed for the last 30 years and paid tens of thousands in tax and possibly employed other people you are entitled to nothing?

There's something massively wrong with that.

This is another one of my gripes. I don't understand it at all. This country is flawed, there is no incentive for people to better themselves.

The money the government contribute towards college fees will be paid back over time by the graduate whereas the money given to these young people on the dole is dead money which will never be paid back to the government.

wolfpawnat

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

This always confuses me, why is someone who has never worked a day in their lives entitled to €100 p/w and then €188 p/w when over 25 but if you've been self employed for the last 30 years and paid tens of thousands in tax and possibly employed other people you are entitled to nothing?

There's something massively wrong with that.

It drives me mad. Seriously why can't a person who worked a business up and employed others, then lose the business due to the downturn cannot keep themselves from destitution because they were self employed. It's a f**ked up world!

efb

wolfpawnat wrote: »

It drives me mad. Seriously why can't a person who worked a business up and employed others, then lose the business due to the downturn cannot keep themselves from destitution because they were self employed. It's a f**ked up world!

Seft employed people can claim JSB if they pay the volunatrily PRSI

wolfpawnat

efb wrote: »

Seft employed people can claim JSB if they pay the volunatrily PRSI

But that does not last very long, after that you can't go for JSA for a while if I'm right. I'm open to correction.

tylercheribini

I used to feel the same way about dole bums but at the end of the day why would you want to compare yourself to them or their situation. Nobody is truely happy doing nothing all the time and if they are they are brain dead. Would you want to be either?

efb

wolfpawnat wrote: »

But that does not last very long, after that you can't go for JSA for a while if I'm right. I'm open to correction.

like all on JSA, your household income is assessed. JSB is the same length for those that paid the correct stamps.

Deu

wolfpawnat wrote: »

It drives me mad. Seriously why can't a person who worked a business up and employed others, then lose the business due to the downturn cannot keep themselves from destitution because they were self employed. It's a f**ked up world!

Can a person running a business not pay them selves a wage and pay the normal employee taxes so they would be able to claim the dole if something happened to their business?

wolfpawnat

tylercheribini wrote: »

I used to feel the same way about dole bums but at the end of the day why would you want to compare yourself to them or their situation. Nobody is truely happy doing nothing all the time and if they are they are brain dead. Would you want to be either?

I am currently unemployed, I am doing an online course and a have a four year old. And to be honest for the last three years, if I didn't have those things to keep me occupied, I would have left already or actually be on strong anti-depressants!

wolfpawnat

Deu wrote: »

Can a person running a business not pay them selves a wage and pay the normal employee taxes so they would be able to claim the dole if something happened to their business?

Truthfully, I am not sure how it works, all I know is self-employed people suffer greater problems trying to obtain SW after they have lost their business than others. And that to me is wrong.

I know very little about the SW.

tylercheribini

Longest I had out of work doing nothing myself was 1 year I and actually went mad,literally!thankfully i am in a degree course i love now. people that deliberately pick doing nothing forever though as a lifestyle choice are not happy, fulfilled people,dont care what they try and say.

Deu

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Truthfully, I am not sure how it works, all I know is self-employed people suffer greater problems trying to obtain SW after they have lost their business than others. And that to me is wrong.

I know very little about the SW.

I don't know allot about it either but all the contractors were I work are self employed. They are able to make tax deductions for lots of stuff that doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Self-Employed people want to pay them selves the most tax efficient way which is understandable but it does mean they are not eligible for most social welfare payments for being unemployed.

They can't have it both ways

tolow

Deu wrote: »

I don't know allot about it either but all the contractors were I work are self employed. They are able to make tax deductions for lots of stuff that doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Self-Employed people want to pay them selves the most tax efficient way which is understandable but it does mean they are not eligible for most social welfare payments for being unemployed.

They can't have it both ways

Totally agree with you on this you can't have the best of both worlds. It is the people who have worked for 30 years and lose thir job and only receive a dole payment the same as someone who has not worked a day in their life, it doesnt make sense.

ShaShaBear

tylercheribini wrote: »

I used to feel the same way about dole bums but at the end of the day why would you want to compare yourself to them or their situation. Nobody is truely happy doing nothing all the time and if they are they are brain dead. Would you want to be either?

Totally agree here - I've been on and off JSA from I was 20 (when I lost my full-time job earning €2600 per month) and the longest spat I spent doing nothing was actually the year from I lost this job until I got my second job. Clinically depressed, ended up being a social recluse, wouldn't talk to anyone! Never finished college and when I ended up back on the dole when I turned 22, the first thing I did was look into BTEA. Figured if I'm going to "sponge" off the state, I might as well get my degree. All going well this time next year I'll be qualified enough to stay off the dole for the forseeable future. Can't see why these kids don't try to do something like that when its available to them!

MarkyMark22

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Totally agree here - I've been on and off JSA from I was 20 (when I lost my full-time job earning €2600 per month) and the longest spat I spent doing nothing was actually the year from I lost this job until I got my second job. Clinically depressed, ended up being a social recluse, wouldn't talk to anyone! Never finished college and when I ended up back on the dole when I turned 22, the first thing I did was look into BTEA. Figured if I'm going to "sponge" off the state, I might as well get my degree. All going well this time next year I'll be qualified enough to stay off the dole for the forseeable future. Can't see why these kids don't try to do something like that when its available to them!

Agreed. I started working when I was 16 before I even completed my leaving cert. Oncie I did I just kept working for quite a few years until I lost my job nearly 2 years ago. I continued to look for work while the 9 months needed for BTEA built up. As soon as I was eligible I went to college on BTEA.

I felt so depressed signing on and sitting around doing practically nothing all day everyday. I didn't want to be like that for the rest of my life so I decided to go to college and get a degree at very least.

However, I do know quite a lot of people who are happy to live like that. Being from the inner city you tend to notice there's more people who are willing to live on the dole than actually want to go to college and better themselves. Its sad really.