EXPANSION FITTED TO BOILER

brando75

HI LADS. RECENTLY HAD MY SYSTEM SEALED AND THE GUY FITTED THE EXPANSION VESSEL DIRECTLY INTO THE TOP OF THE BOILER. IS THIS OK??

Dtp79

brando75 wrote: »

HI LADS. RECENTLY HAD MY SYSTEM SEALED AND THE GUY FITTED THE EXPANSION VESSEL DIRECTLY INTO THE TOP OF THE BOILER. IS THIS OK??

Did you not say in another very recent thread the vessel was in the hotpress?

brando75

Dtp79 wrote: »

Did you not say in another very recent thread the vessel was in the hotpress?

That was in my brothers house

sullzz

Put up a pic of it , it should ideally be on the return as close to the boiler as possible

gifted

a bit unlucky you and your brother with the plumbers ye get.. huh brando???

Dtp79

brando75 wrote: »

That was in my brothers house

My mistake sorry

brando75

Dtp79 wrote: »

My mistake sorry

Flow from boiler is on top left. Return to boiler is on bottom left. Expansion fitted to top right.

Dtp79

brando75 wrote: »

Flow from boiler is on top left. Return to boiler is on bottom left. Expansion fitted to top right.

As sullz said, ideally on the return. Be better to have your heating return coming from the bottom right too. And seal around the flue flange with some fire cement!

gifted

can't really see in the pic but any safety valve fitted?

brando75

gifted wrote: »

can't really see in the pic but any safety valve fitted?

No there doesn't seem to a safety valve. Could it be somewhere else.

gifted

well it could be but it shouldn't be...should be on the top of your boiler and piped down to the ground, about 2" from floor..if no tapping on your boiler it should be teed in on the boiler side of the 367 on the flow pipe.

Dtp79

gifted wrote: »

well it could be but it shouldn't be...should be on the top of your boiler and piped down to the ground, about 2" from floor..if no tapping on your boiler it should be teed in on the boiler side of the 367 on the flow pipe.

Shur the location of the vessel will act as a safety valve/expansion vessel/air vent!!

Dtp79

Dtp79 wrote: »

Shur the location of the vessel will act as a safety valve/expansion vessel/air vent!!

I'm joking, just in case anyone takes that serious!

gifted

sort out the exposed electrical connectors by the double socket as well and make sure the copper pipes going through the block wall are sleeved as well...if those heating pipes are dropping down on the other side of the wall then they will need two AAV's on the them.

gifted

I'm not seeing the pump either so i'm presuming its on the return behind the boiler, this should be moved up so it's more accessible for maintenance, also fit a lockshield valve before the expansion vessel, again for maintenance, would also suggest fitting a pressure gauge and finally get some insulation for those pipes

sullzz

You said on the post about your brothers system being sealed , that they guy who did yours did a more professional job , the first thing he should have done was fit a safety valve if there was none present , without one your system it is a ticking bomb if a stat was to fail , I'd get that sorted as a matter of urgency

shane0007

brando75 wrote: »

HI LADS. RECENTLY HAD MY SYSTEM SEALED AND THE GUY FITTED THE EXPANSION VESSEL DIRECTLY INTO THE TOP OF THE BOILER. IS THIS OK??

There will be a tapping on the bottom rh side of the boiler. Pipe the expansion vessel to that tapping. Then use the top rh side tapping for an AAV.
Install a 3 bar safety valve on the flow.
Re-wire the exposed wiring to a switched fused spur fitted with a 5amp fuse.

Most importantly, DO NOT ENTER the boiler room whilst the boiler is on. There is no seal around where the flue meets the boiler.

brando75

shane0007 wrote: »

There will be a tapping on the bottom rh side of the boiler. Pipe the expansion vessel to that tapping. Then use the top rh side tapping for an AAV.
Install a 3 bar safety valve on the flow.
Re-wire the exposed wiring to a switched fused spur fitted with a 5amp fuse.

Most importantly, DO NOT ENTER the boiler room whilst the boiler is on. There is no seal around where the flue meets the boiler.

A ticking time bomb!! What could happen. Only other valve on boiler is this one. Bottom right hand corner. Presume its not a safety valve or is it.

shane0007

brando75 wrote: »

A ticking time bomb!! What could happen. Only other valve on boiler is this one. Bottom right hand corner. Presume its not a safety valve or is it.

It looks like some sort of drain valve with a blank. It is not a safety valve. for the expansion, I am talking about the tapping behind that one at the lower back. It has a GB plug.
3 bar safety valve can easily go on the flow pipe from the boiler & ideally piped outside so it cannot affect the electrics should it discharge. All manufacturers also require an automatic air vent on the boiler.

brando75

shane0007 wrote: »

It looks like some sort of drain valve with a blank. It is not a safety valve. for the expansion, I am talking about the tapping behind that one at the lower back. It has a GB plug.
3 bar safety valve can easily go on the flow pipe from the boiler & ideally piped outside so it cannot affect the electrics should it discharge. All manufacturers also require an automatic air vent on the boiler.

So is it dangerous to use my heating until i get this safety valve fitted??

Dtp79

brando75 wrote: »

So is it dangerous to use my heating until i get this safety valve fitted??

Is it dangerous to drive at night with one headlight out!

shane0007

brando75 wrote: »

So is it dangerous to use my heating until i get this safety valve fitted??

Potentially yes. If the expansion vessel failed, it would potentially burst a pipe/fitting under pressure. The level of danger would depend upon the temperature the water reached before a fitting gave way. If the temperature went above 100C, the result would be catastrophic as the burst and reached atmospheric pressure.
This is worst case scenario and would be extremely extremely rare. It would have to take a series of ill events such as the boiler thermostat failing along with the high limit stat failing along with the expansion vessel failing.
I would not like to advice you to carry on using the system but only to get this safety feature installed as soon as you reasonably can.

brando75

shane0007 wrote: »

Potentially yes. If the expansion vessel failed, it would potentially burst a pipe/fitting under pressure. The level of danger would depend upon the temperature the water reached before a fitting gave way. If the temperature went above 100C, the result would be catastrophic as the burst and reached atmospheric pressure.
This is worst case scenario and would be extremely extremely rare. It would have to take a series of ill events such as the boiler thermostat failing along with the high limit stat failing along with the expansion vessel failing.
I would not like to advice you to carry on using the system but only to get this safety feature installed as soon as you reasonably can.

Thanks very much for all your advice lads.

Joey the lips

i never get why expansion vessels are not supported when fitted. Its just so stupid. If the system becomes faulty and this fills with water it becomes really really heavy.

Dtp79

Joey the lips wrote: »

i never get why expansion vessels are not supported when fitted. Its just so stupid. If the system becomes faulty and this fills with water it becomes really really heavy.

Or someone uses it as a foot step when painting the ceiling !

brando75

Dtp79 wrote: »

Or someone uses it as a foot step when painting the ceiling !

Must the system be drained for safety valve to be fitted?

shane0007

brando75 wrote: »

Must the system be drained for safety valve to be fitted?

Yes, or I use an electric freeze kit to freeze the flow & return. Then only the boiler would have to be partially drained to install the safety valve or fully drained to re-position the expansion vessel. Many installers now use them to avoid the dreaded, should I even mention the dirty words, AIR LOCK!
Had one yesterday in a dreaded drop down system that took me 2 hours to get the air lock released.

brando75

shane0007 wrote: »

Yes, or I use an electric freeze kit to freeze the flow & return. Then only the boiler would have to be partially drained to install the safety valve or fully drained to re-position the expansion vessel. Many installers now use them to avoid the dreaded, should I even mention the dirty words, AIR LOCK!
Had one yesterday in a dreaded drop down system that took me 2 hours to get the air lock released.

Just thinking, there was some sort of valve fitted to that boiler before system was sealed. It was in that tapping where the expansion vessel is now fitted. If i remember correctly it had a spring loaded device which if you twisted would empty water from the boiler out. Would this have being a safety valve?

sullzz

brando75 wrote: »

Just thinking, there was some sort of valve fitted to that boiler before system was sealed. It was in that tapping where the expansion vessel is now fitted. If i remember correctly it had a spring loaded device which if you twisted would empty water from the boiler out. Would this have being a safety valve?

Yes that was a safety valve , you need to get your installer back

gifted

Honestly dude, you seriously need to change your "plumber". Any person who removes the safety valve and fits the expansion vessel straight onto the top of the boiler should be prosecuted.

brando75

gifted wrote: »

Honestly dude, you seriously need to change your "plumber". Any person who removes the safety valve and fits the expansion vessel straight onto the top of the boiler should be prosecuted.

There is a similar valve beside fireplace on flow pipe. Close to where pump was for old back boiler. Would this act sufficiently as a safety valve for my system or do i still need another one on boiler?

Dtp79

brando75 wrote: »

There is a similar valve beside fireplace on flow pipe. Close to where pump was for old back boiler. Would this act sufficiently as a safety valve for my system or do i still need another one on boiler?

Not good enough. One safety valve per heating appliance