Best / Worst access roads to Dublin city center

RATM

Just wondering about this more about interest than any kind of necessity.

I'm wondering what would be considered the best and worst access roads to Dublin city center in terms of traffic. I was just on the N81 tonight at 5pm and as soon as I'd passed Tallaght and gone into Templeogue the road changes to one lane only (+a bus lane) and remains that way for pretty much all the distance into town. I got stuck in a traffic jam for the best part of 15 minutes just to get through the crossroads in Templeogue villiage, which surprised me on a Sunday. It got me thinkinig that the people who have to commute that road at rush hour must have a really hard time.

My own commute is on the N2 which I generally find not too bad. Phibsboro is a bit of a bottle neck and the traffic at 8.30am is normally backed up to Glasnevin cemetery but does move along. I don't follow the N2 all the way to the end at the quays at Church Street but for those that do I'm guessing it is at least a bit better than joining the quays at the James Joyce bridge as much of the sections there are one lane only whereas turning left off Church Street opens up into two lanes all the way to O'Connell Bridge.

I've never commuted the others like the N1, N3, N4, N11 at rush hour so was wondering which of all of them would be considered the best and worst access routes to the city center. I get the impression that the N4 is actually quite a good access route as it is 3 lanes and then two much of the way. But then when it gets to Hueston and the quays it backs up a lot. The N1 seems to be a jam from Whitehall onwards and is one lane all the way to the city from there, with the exception of Dorset St where it opens up to two again. The N11 seems quite good at it is 2/3 lanes a lot of the time and it doesn't go down to one lane until it is pretty close to crossing the canals, which isn't that far from town. I've no experience really of the N3 but would imagine it isn't the best as it enters the quays at the James Joyce bridge and joins up with the N4 route and also traffic from Conyham Road/ Chapelizod on top of that.

I guess those route that reduce to one lane a long distance out of the city center are the hardest to commute in terms of traffic. Traffic volumes would also be a big factor but I am not sure which of the above routes would have the most/least amount of vehicles per day.

Victor

Get the bus. :pac:

I imagine there isn't much in it - any route that is perceived to be quicker will soon have traffic clogging it - as happened the quays when trucks started using the port tunnel.

Generally the dual carriageway aren't so bad, but most will have some pinch point or other.

Terenure Cross, the canal & Liffey bridges are probably the biggest choke points

coylemj

There are bottlenecks everywhere. Driving inbound on the Stillorgan road (N11), there are three lanes passing UCD but by the time you get to the Shell filling station in Donnybrook, there's only one lane inbound for cars with the QBC. The Rock road is the same, when you get past the bottom of Mt. Merrion Ave. there's only one inbound lane for cars.

starviewadams

Naad Road is annoying when the bus gets to the junction at McDonalds/Kylemore Road and the bus lane stops.Same when you get to the lights at Bluebell.

Macy0161

coylemj wrote: »

There are bottlenecks everywhere. Driving inbound on the Stillorgan road (N11), there are three lanes passing UCD but by the time you get to the Shell filling station in Donnybrook, there's only one lane inbound for cars with the QBC. The Rock road is the same, when you get past the bottom of Mt. Merrion Ave. there's only one inbound lane for cars.

The first bottleneck on the N11 is around Stillorgan - the 4 sets of lights (3 in about 50m) between Dublin Road (the old road from the shopping centre) through to Mount Merrion Avenue. It's snarled up back from Mount Merrion to at least Kilmacud Road every school morning, often Leopardstown Road and sometimes back to Foxrock Church. There's a few things they could do, but it effectively filters the traffic for Donnybrook anyway - freeing up one bottleneck will just push it further down the road.

My real bug bear on that route is the cut out for the right turn/ u turn at Donnybrook Church just before the lights - that causes a lot of the delay in the mornings in the run into Donnybrook imo with the school traffic from that school opposite RTE. Well that and the shorter than they could be right turns both ways - Donnybrook, Newton Park Avenue, Cabinteely in bound and Fosters Avenue and Kilmacud Road outbound all have right turn lanes that aren't long enough for rush hour, and big wide central medians that could be used to extend them back and allow 2 driving lanes.

Chris_5339762

Funny enough, with enough will and effort it is feasible to almost completely grade seperate the N11 all the way to Donnybrook. Minor roads and driveways (without traffic lights) could still be there and a few front gardens would be lost but its surprising how many of the major junctions could be grade seperated without big CPOs.

Carawaystick

The m50 and north quays, the m50 bein the closest motorway to the city centre
On a bike, the n4 chapelizod bypass route.

Victor

Macy0161 wrote: »

The first bottleneck on the N11 is around Stillorgan - the 4 sets of lights (3 in about 50m) between Dublin Road (the old road from the shopping centre) through to Mount Merrion Avenue.

Perceptions of distance are interesting. That distance is 450 metres.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Stillorgan+Road%2FN11%2FN31&daddr=Stillorgan+Road%2FN11%2FN31&hl=en&sll=53.294998,-6.199064&sspn=0.013056,0.042272&geocode=FQEwLQMd81-h_w%3BFQA-LQMdClWh_w&mra=dme&mrsp=0&sz=15&t=m&z=15

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Funny enough, with enough will and effort it is feasible to almost completely grade seperate the N11 all the way to Donnybrook. Minor roads and driveways (without traffic lights) could still be there and a few front gardens would be lost but its surprising how many of the major junctions could be grade seperated without big CPOs.

The cost and disruption would be vast. The trick is to fix the choke points, not make non-choke points faster. Of course getting more people out of their cars would also help.

richardjjd

The N3 inbound is hugely better than it was - the M50/N3 junction restructure a number of years ago improved things greatly, but there is now a squeeze point at the "new" railway bridge at Navan Road Parkway which sees three lanes come into one (plus bus lane) over a distance of 1km or so. Once you get through that merge (and the delay between there and the Ashtown Roundabout, a further km east) things run smoothly enough into the city.

RATM

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Funny enough, with enough will and effort it is feasible to almost completely grade seperate the N11 all the way to Donnybrook. Minor roads and driveways (without traffic lights) could still be there and a few front gardens would be lost but its surprising how many of the major junctions could be grade seperated without big CPOs.

I suspect a lot would depend on who the people are whose gardens would be lost. A CPO is one thing but trying to enforce it can be another. This is Ireland after all.

Take the redevelopment of Croke Park and Lansdowne Road for example. When Croker was re-done Hill 16 was built higher than ever before, thus blocking out light from more houses than it ever had before. The residents put in lot of objections but they weren't listened to- more than likely their objections were steamrolled by a quiet word from Bertie. Many of them now have gardens that are in the shade a lot of the day as a result of the increased height of the stadium.

Conversely when the IRFU tried to do similar at Lansdowne Road a whole load of barristers, solicitors, accountants and other assorted D4 power brokers got together and put a stop to it. The result is that Lansdowne is like a 3/4 stadium with a huge big glass wall so that the light to the houses behind the terrace wasn't blocked. The IRFU had hoped to have a full terrace at that end (as would be normal) but instead their plans had to sacrifice some 10,000 seats, mainly because of the political power that the residents living behind it could wield.

As with any development that is for the common good in Ireland a lot depends on who is going to be put out by it. If the people are close to the levers of power then it'll get scuppered in favour of their vested interests. If the NRA tried to throw around CPO's along the N11 you might find the same would happen. If they wanted to throw them around the N3 or N4 then my guess is it would go ahead. Call me cynical but this is Ireland.

Back on topic does anyone here use the Blackrock to Ringsend coast road via Sandymount to commute to work? Is it a total bottleneck in the mornings or does it tend to run smoothly enough ?

AlekSmart

Macy0161 wrote: »

My real bug bear on that route is the cut out for the right turn/ u turn at Donnybrook Church just before the lights - that causes a lot of the delay in the mornings in the run into Donnybrook imo with the school traffic from that school opposite RTE. Well that and the shorter than they could be right turns both ways - Donnybrook, Newton Park Avenue, Cabinteely in bound and Fosters Avenue and Kilmacud Road outbound all have right turn lanes that aren't long enough for rush hour, and big wide central medians that could be used to extend them back and allow 2 driving lanes.

I think you will find that the median "Cut Out" at Donnybrook Church is to facilitate the Faithful as they go about their devotions in Donnybrook RC Church.

In this day and age,it is a wildly dangerous bit of mallarkey,where on a daily basis one can stand and witness a succession of near misses and worse as the wild-eyed attempt the U turn and associated other manouveres...;)

It also facilitates Funeral Access,they tell me.....basically it's a throwback to the days when all planning was overseen by a higher theological authority....similar to the original Free Travel Scheme start time of 1000 being advanced to 0945 following a request from Archbishops Palace in order to allow the faithful to use Public Transport for Free to get to 1000 Mass.....

One might have thought that seeing how many of the said Faithful would be prepared to pay a busfare to get to the same Mass might have been a better overall test of their devotion ?

Macy0161

Victor wrote: »

Perceptions of distance are interesting. That distance is 450 metres.

On phone so struggling to check, but really don't see the junction of the old road with the n11 near the priory, to trees road being 450m.

Edit - Google Maps telling me it's a 130m between the old road lights, through the pedestrian crossing lights, to trees road.

Van.Bosch

RATM wrote: »

Conversely when the IRFU tried to do similar at Lansdowne Road a whole load of barristers, solicitors, accountants and other assorted D4 power brokers got together and put a stop to it. The result is that Lansdowne is like a 3/4 stadium with a huge big glass wall so that the light to the houses behind the terrace wasn't blocked. The IRFU had hoped to have a full terrace at that end (as would be normal) but instead their plans had to sacrifice some 10,000 seats, mainly because of the political power that the residents living behind it could wield.

I believe that the site only had planning permission for 50,000 seats no matter what size stadium could be built, sue to access issues. So while the residents did win out in having that stupid little stand at one end of the stadium it did not cause the stadium to be smaller.

Milan Cobian

One might have thought that seeing how many of the said Faithful would be prepared to pay a busfare to get to the same Mass might have been a better overall test of their devotion ?

Well put Alex. Though their graces were always rather circumspect about allowing much free will into the equation when it came to professing the faith. One suspects that even in their glory days there was always the niggling feeling that they might not like the answer. Anyway, thread drift, sorry.