Hastle from a private car sale

Colash

Hello all . First post on this . Just wondering what is yer opinion on this . I sold a car a while ago to a chap . It was a private car sale ., no warranty or anything given . Car was perfect for me . Nct an tax all in order . He loved the car , test drove her an all that . Paid me an took off . Low an behold he rings me that night and says the engine is wrecked an he wasnt happy . Now it seems court is been threatened by him an all that if he dosent get a refund or at least half his money back . The car was a grand wee car . Served me well an I infact pumped money into it before the sale to replace various parts so I could sell the car an have it in perfect order . Now this chap is using this against me , claiming that I knew of faults an decieved him . I assure you all I didn't an frankly I think the lad has a cheek

repsol

Colash wrote: »

Hello all . First post on this . Just wondering what is yer opinion on this . I sold a car a while ago to a chap . It was a private car sale ., no warranty or anything given . Car was perfect for me . Nct an tax all in order . He loved the car , test drove her an all that . Paid me an took off . Low an behold he rings me that night and says the engine is wrecked an he wasnt happy . Now it seems court is been threatened by him an all that if he dosent get a refund or at least half his money back . The car was a grand wee car . Served me well an I infact pumped money into it before the sale to replace various parts so I could sell the car an have it in perfect order . Now this chap is using this against me , claiming that I knew of faults an decieved him . I assure you all I didn't an frankly I think the lad has a cheek

I think unless you are a motor trader he might be on a loser.How much money is involved?

Colash

repsol wrote: »

I think unless you are a motor trader he might be on a loser.How much money is involved?

3000euro my friend .. An I'm just a private seller .. Not a trader . My mate told me not to worry that the guy blew the motor himself or did something to it an now wants to blame me

repsol

Colash wrote: »

3000euro my friend .. An I'm just a private seller .. Not a trader . My mate told me not to worry that the guy blew the motor himself or did something to it an now wants to blame me

I think your mate could be correct.I would say and do nothing and wait until he actually spends some of his own cash on solicitors etc before seekin legal advice.He will get lost when he knows he is wasting his time.A threat of legal action is just that,a threat.Most threats are not followed up with actions.

Colash

repsol wrote: »

I think your mate could be correct.I would say and do nothing and wait until he actually spends some of his own cash on solicitors etc before seekin legal advice.He will get lost when he knows he is wasting his time.A threat of legal action is just that,a threat.Most threats are not followed up with actions.

My only issue is I've received a solicitors letter DEMANDING payment or else . I spoke to my solicitor an he told me not to worry that he has experience in this matter an the guy dosent have a leg to stand on . Surely if that was the case he wouldn't have wasted money on sending me a solicitors letter ?

repsol

Colash wrote: »

My only issue is I've received a solicitors letter DEMANDING payment or else . I spoke to my solicitor an he told me not to worry that he has experience in this matter an the guy dosent have a leg to stand on . Surely if that was the case he wouldn't have wasted money on sending me a solicitors letter ?

Some people would not go to their own solicitor and would give in on receipt of the letter.The other party was hoping you were such a person.Trust your solicitor and follow his advice.

JackieBurke

I would have simply lit the fire with his letter.

Procrastastudy

Caveat emptor unless there was a safety issue or you've misrepresented anything. Are you absolutely sure you didn't make any claim along the lines of "it's a grand engine, I've spent money on it; it'll last for years" or something of a more specific nature.

qwertypop

He hasn't a leg to stand on. His solicitor will write whatever he wants him to write. Also his solicitor thought that you'd play along cause you'd be afraid of a solicitors letter.

He hasn't a leg to stand on unless you gave him some written guarantee that the car was perfect etc which I doubt you did

Edit. Also don't even engage with them. Doing so may mean they have a case get your solicitor to send a letter back if they keep sending letter bits don't reply directly to either of them

Procrastastudy

qwertypop wrote: »

He hasn't a leg to stand on unless you gave him some written guarantee that the car was perfect etc which I doubt you did

Wouldn't have to be written or imply the car was perfect. An oral statement would suffice.

Stereomaniac

Yeah, but it comes down to the seller's word against the buyer's if that's the case though, surely?

Procrastastudy

Stereomaniac wrote: »

Yeah, but it comes down to the seller's word against the buyer's if that's the case though, surely?

That assumes the OP would lie and that the Judge is more convinced by that lie than he is by the truth from the buyer.

(No offence OP I'm not making any judgement on what you may or may not have said)

Colash

Procrastastudy wrote: »

That assumes the OP would lie and that the Judge is more convinced by that lie than he is by the truth from the buyer.

(No offence OP I'm not making any judgement on what you may or may not have said)

Ok before I owned the car it had a major engine over haul . This was done nearly a year before my ownership of it by a reputable mechNic an i even supplied this new buyer with all paper work to prove this . I was very honest during the sale an I can't understand how he's stating I misled him.. Wouldn't it cost alot of money for him to take a case against me ? If it went that way

Procrastastudy

OP you have to bear in mind this forum isn't for practical legal advice: its for a discussion on legal issues, therefore people, especially me, ramble on about things in a half informed manner. You've sought proper legal advice; I'd be guided by it.

Colash

Procrastastudy wrote: »

OP you have to bear in mind this forum isn't for practical legal advice: its for a discussion on legal issues, therefore people, especially me, ramble on about things in a half informed manner. You've sought proper legal advice; I'd be guided by it.

Ok thanks procrast.. I appreciate yer help folks . I just needed my nerves put at ease . In a way I shouldn't worry or be nervous as I've not done a thing wrong . Thanks again

valleyoftheunos

I would be of the opinion that Caveat Emptor or buyer beware applies, in a situation such as this a car is sold as seen and its up to him to satisfy himself that he is happy before he buys.

A seller is under no duty to reveal any defects to a purchaser or put them straight if they make a mistake themselves. The only thing a seller can't do is misrepresent something or flat out lie.

3ndahalfof6

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I would be of the opinion that Caveat Emptor or buyer beware applies, in a situation such as this a car is sold as seen and its up to him to satisfy himself that he is happy before he buys.

A seller is under no duty to reveal any defects to a purchaser or put them straight if they make a mistake themselves. The only thing a seller can't do is misrepresent something or flat out lie.

So just go to the local acutions, you might win, you might lose, but the cost to you is way less, considering.

yes chance

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I would be of the opinion that Caveat Emptor or buyer beware applies, in a situation such as this a car is sold as seen and its up to him to satisfy himself that he is happy before he buys.

A seller is under no duty to reveal any defects to a purchaser or put them straight if they make a mistake themselves. The only thing a seller can't do is misrepresent something or flat out lie.

A private seller isn't - a dealer is under this obligation

valleyoftheunos

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

So just go to the local acutions, you might win, you might lose, but the cost to you is way less, considering.

Well yes, you inspect the car and make up your own mind about whether its a good deal or not.

yes chance wrote: »

A private seller isn't - a dealer is under this obligation

I'd need to check that but either way we aren't talking about a dealer here.

yes chance

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Well yes, you inspect the car and make up your own mind about whether its a good deal or not.



I'd need to check that but either way we aren't talking about a dealer here.

feel free to check it with the national consumer agency and you will find a dealer has the obligation. A private seller does not and yes I realsie this thread refers to a private sale.

But since you said a "A seller is under no duty to reveal any defect" it is important to distinguish between private and dealer

valleyoftheunos

yes chance wrote: »

feel free to check it with the national consumer agency and you will find a dealer has the obligation. A private seller does not and yes I realsie this thread refers to a private sale.

Fair enough, couldn't remember of the top of my head if the various consumer law exemptions apply to motor vehicles etc.

yes chance wrote: »

But since you said a "A seller is under no duty to reveal any defect" it is important to distinguish between private and dealer

Given the context I think the distinction was perfectly clear already.

yes chance

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Fair enough, couldn't remember of the top of my head if the various consumer law exemptions apply to motor vehicles etc.



Given the context I think the distinction was perfectly clear already.

i don't

celticcrash

If he has the money for an engineers report and is willing to drag this through the court than you could end up paying back the money plus costs.
Its very unusual for this to happen but it does if he pushes it.
A friend of mine was in the same boat as yourself.
The car he sold clapped out within a couple of days.
The other party brought him to court. the other party had an engineers report saying the engine was not in a fit condition for sale as a road wordy vehicle. (Sorry something along them lines).
He had to pay back the man every cent.
As I said rarely happens.

yes chance

celticcrash wrote: »

If he has the money for an engineers report and is willing to drag this through the court than you could end up paying back the money plus costs.
Its very unusual for this to happen but it does if he pushes it.
A friend of mine was in the same boat as yourself.
The car he sold clapped out within a couple of days.
The other party brought him to court. the other party had an engineers report saying the engine was not in a fit condition for sale as a road wordy vehicle. (Sorry something along them lines).
He had to pay back the man every cent.
As I said rarely happens.

this was a private sale? It is probably an offence to sell a non roadworthy car but i was not aware a private seller had an obligation to know. was it very bad?

Truman Burbank

Colash wrote: »

I infact pumped money into it before the sale to replace various parts so I could sell the car an have it in perfect order . Now this chap is using this against me , claiming that I knew of faults an decieved him .

So the buyer pays 3k at, let's say, 1pm, and phones you at, let's say, 9pm to say the engine is wrecked. You said you "were very honest during the sale", so presumably you told him it was in perfect order (or such, as above) cos you thought it was. Imagine if you had not sold it that very day? You would have been fierce unlucky OP for your engine to be on the verge of clapping out, or clapped-out, with all the work you and the previous owner did on it. What did the mechanic you had who made it perfect say BTW??? Doesn't look like the buyer changed his mind, looks like he bought a turkey that was sold as fresh not frozen.

Colash

Truman Burbank wrote: »

So the buyer pays 3k at, let's say, 1pm, and phones you at, let's say, 9pm to say the engine is wrecked. You said you "were very honest during the sale", so presumably you told him it was in perfect order (or such, as above) cos you thought it was. Imagine if you had not sold it that very day? You would have been fierce unlucky OP for your engine to be on the verge of clapping out, or clapped-out, with all the work you and the previous owner did on it. What did the mechanic you had who made it perfect say BTW??? Doesn't look like the buyer changed his mind, looks like he bought a turkey that was sold as fresh not frozen.

I sold the car in good faith . No lies , deception or anything like that . I supplied paper work for all work on the car prior to my ownership an also paper work for parts I purchased during my ownership. These parts were things like a sensor , break pads , oil filter , spark plugs . Etc . I think it was a case of bad luck on the buyers behalf . But whos to say he didn't drive the balls out of the car on the way home . Or miss a gear or something or over rev the car . During the test drive he certainly didn't hold back an infect I had to ask h to slow down at one stage . The car ran great for me during my ownership an although it needed a few pound spent on it through the parts I listed above ,, it still was a fresh car . With only low mileage an a good long nct on it . I wasnt aware of any faults at the time of sale as I informed the buyer of the work that had been done an supplied all paper work to verify this . If there was a fault, I certainly didn't know of it.

Grahamb23

Colash wrote: »

Hello all . First post on this . Just wondering what is yer opinion on this . I sold a car a while ago to a chap . It was a private car sale ., no warranty or anything given . Car was perfect for me . Nct an tax all in order . He loved the car , test drove her an all that . Paid me an took off . Low an behold he rings me that night and says the engine is wrecked an he wasnt happy . Now it seems court is been threatened by him an all that if he dosent get a refund or at least half his money back . The car was a grand wee car . Served me well an I infact pumped money into it before the sale to replace various parts so I could sell the car an have it in perfect order . Now this chap is using this against me , claiming that I knew of faults an decieved him . I assure you all I didn't an frankly I think the lad has a cheek

Ok this is a major pain. Legally speaking you are on a looser. If this guy goes to court over this you will more than likely have to give him a refund or fix the car. As far as I know even though you didn't give him a warranty you have to cover the car for a min of 3 months unless stated in a legal document. I would suggest you contact the simi www.simi.ie and ask their opinion on the situation.

valleyoftheunos

Truman Burbank wrote: »

So the buyer pays 3k at, let's say, 1pm, and phones you at, let's say, 9pm to say the engine is wrecked. You said you "were very honest during the sale", so presumably you told him it was in perfect order (or such, as above) cos you thought it was. Imagine if you had not sold it that very day? You would have been fierce unlucky OP for your engine to be on the verge of clapping out, or clapped-out, with all the work you and the previous owner did on it. What did the mechanic you had who made it perfect say BTW??? Doesn't look like the buyer changed his mind, looks like he bought a turkey that was sold as fresh not frozen.

The usual unwarranted and unjustified speculation and suggestion to be found on boards.

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Ok this is a major pain. Legally speaking you are on a looser. If this guy goes to court over this you will more than likely have to give him a refund or fix the car. As far as I know even though you didn't give him a warranty you have to cover the car for a min of 3 months unless stated in a legal document. I would suggest you contact the simi www.simi.ie and ask their opinion on the situation.

as far as you know?!?!?! I've no idea where you got this from and it is news to me, provide a source please.

Colash

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Ok this is a major pain. Legally speaking you are on a looser. If this guy goes to court over this you will more than likely have to give him a refund or fix the car. As far as I know even though you didn't give him a warranty you have to cover the car for a min of 3 months unless stated in a legal document. I would suggest you contact the simi www.simi.ie and ask their opinion on the situation.

I've spoken to citizens information an my solicitor an they both assure me that buyer beware is the case here . I was under the impression that simi dealt with car dealers an not a private sale ? I'm getting alot of conflicting responses here. Why would it matter if it was 3 months or 3 minutes after the sale ? If that was the case I'd say courts would be over ran with cases like this where buyers are trying to take sellers to court over the silliest things .

valleyoftheunos

yes chance wrote: »

i don't

Nobody was discussing dealers, you have actually confused matters.

Colash

Colash wrote: »

I've spoken to citizens information an my solicitor an they both assure me that buyer beware is the case here . I was under the impression that simi dealt with car dealers an not a private sale ? I'm getting alot of conflicting responses here. Why would it matter if it was 3 months or 3 minutes after the sale ? If that was the case I'd say courts would be over ran with cases like this where buyers are trying to take sellers to court over the silliest things .

I'm a private seller . Not a car dealer in any way or form . Just want to make that clear incase it starts confusion

Kristopherus

Colash wrote: »

I've spoken to citizens information an my solicitor an they both assure me that buyer beware is the case here . I was under the impression that simi dealt with car dealers an not a private sale ? I'm getting alot of conflicting responses here. Why would it matter if it was 3 months or 3 minutes after the sale ? If that was the case I'd say courts would be over ran with cases like this where buyers are trying to take sellers to court over the silliest things .

Pay no attention to anything other than what your solicitor has told you. Some of the advice here is rubbish. Next they will be telling you that you can sue your solicitor for giving you the wrong advice.:(

Thatnastyboy

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Ok this is a major pain. Legally speaking you are on a looser. If this guy goes to court over this you will more than likely have to give him a refund or fix the car. As far as I know even though you didn't give him a warranty you have to cover the car for a min of 3 months unless stated in a legal document. I would suggest you contact the simi www.simi.ie and ask their opinion on the situation.

WHAT :eek:

awful advice, :mad: and just wrong

No he does not have to warrant anything, its a private sale, private sales are final, obviously as said, unless the car had a dangerous defect which was covered up/hidden by the seller, a defective engine is not a dangerous defect, and, engines can go at any time. As you are 'in the trade' i thought you would know this....

bucketybuck

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Ok this is a major pain. Legally speaking you are on a looser. If this guy goes to court over this you will more than likely have to give him a refund or fix the car. As far as I know even though you didn't give him a warranty you have to cover the car for a min of 3 months unless stated in a legal document. I would suggest you contact the simi www.simi.ie and ask their opinion on the situation.

OP, please do not listen to this clown, listen to the advice of your solicitor.

Grahamb23, you do not know what you are talking about.

celticcrash

My friend had to pay the engineers report and legal fees on top of the car.
Hes solicitor also told him that he had nothing to worry about.
I am just passing on information here.

Colash

Kristopherus wrote: »

Pay no attention to anything other than what your solicitor has told you. Some of the advice here is rubbish. Next they will be telling you that you can sue your solicitor for giving you the wrong advice.:(

Thanks for that I've only briefly spoken to my solicitor an he's assured me that it won't go no further than the buyer sending me a letter . I don't want to reveal too much on this as it may effect various things should this go down a case route . I posted this thread for advice an opinions an to see what other people would do in my position . Fair enough an engine going shortly after a purchase is seriously bad luck ., but under no circumstances did I deceive anyone or sell someone a lemon . I loved the car an had no problem spending money on it while I owned it . I don't want to be made put to be a bad person or infect a con man or criminal (as the letter I received stated) , but all this had made me VERY weary of selling a car privately in the future as this guy is confident he has a comeback

Grahamb23

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

The usual unwarranted and unjustified speculation and suggestion to be found on boards.



as far as you know?!?!?! I've no idea where you got this from and it is news to me, provide a source please.

what I ment to say was from what I have heard is that in a case through the small claims courts the buyer of a privately sold vehicle got a full refund as the judge decided that the car should have been covered for a min of 3 months but I suppose it will depend on the judge when it come to the big day but if your looking for a few fact here you go.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/print.html#sec17

Grahamb23

Colash wrote: »

I've spoken to citizens information an my solicitor an they both assure me that buyer beware is the case here . I was under the impression that simi dealt with car dealers an not a private sale ? I'm getting alot of conflicting responses here. Why would it matter if it was 3 months or 3 minutes after the sale ? If that was the case I'd say courts would be over ran with cases like this where buyers are trying to take sellers to court over the silliest things .

unfortunately that is the case and courts are over run with petty little cases but I am glad to hear that buyer beware is the case here, I suggest you stop looking at this tread now and go get the facts because people like me will wreak your head... good luck with it though.

Truman Burbank

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

The usual unwarranted and unjustified speculation and suggestion to be found on boards.

The OP said he thought it was perfect, so yeah fierce bad luck for this buyer. A car that could do an evenly-paced marathon at lunchtime and require CPR by supper, that could not have had a major pre-existing condition. Undiagnosed. Obviously. Seems like this will come down to "He said, he said". In which case, "the facts are..........."???? Replies are saying this buyer has no protection as long as the OP did not mis-represent, which he didn't, I get that.

Colash

Grahamb23 wrote: »

unfortunately that is the case and courts are over run with petty little cases but I am glad to hear that buyer beware is the case here, I suggest you stop looking at this tread now and go get the facts because people like me will wreak your head... good luck with it though.

Your not Wrecking my head grahamb23 and I appreciate all the responses given on this . If I've to go to court over this I will go an I will present my case an all sufficient information I have . I could reveal alot more info on this that would sway a decision by ye all in my favour but thats not why I posted this . I have never been in this position before an I've bought an sold a couple of cars throughout my years driving . I'd also feel hard done by in this case, but that's life .

Grahamb23

bucketybuck wrote: »

OP, please do not listen to this clown, listen to the advice of your solicitor.

Grahamb23, you do not know what you are talking about.

Its pretty clear neither do you....

valleyoftheunos

Grahamb23 wrote: »

what I ment to say was from what I have heard is that in a case through the small claims courts the buyer of a privately sold vehicle got a full refund as the judge decided that the car should have been covered for a min of 3 months but I suppose it will depend on the judge when it come to the big day but if your looking for a few fact here you go.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/print.html#sec17

The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 does not apply (nor does any consumer legislation) to the OP because as stated repeatedly he is acting as a private seller.

I don't know the details of the case you are referring to but I'm prepared to wager that there is an importance difference to the OPs situation somewhere.

slimjimmc

Grahamb23 wrote: »

what I ment to say was from what I have heard is that in a case through the small claims courts the buyer of a privately sold vehicle got a full refund as the judge decided that the car should have been covered for a min of 3 months but I suppose it will depend on the judge when it come to the big day but if your looking for a few fact here you go.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/print.html#sec17

I seriously doubt any part of that is correct,
a) because the SCC does not deal in private sale disputes,
b) the is no legal obligation for any seller (private or dealer) to provide a guarantee of any duration, but if one is offered as part of the contract then it must be honoured.

That link only applies where a guarantee is given, if no guarantee is given then there is nothing in enforce.



OP, listen to you solicitor, the other party sounds like they're chancing their arm.

the_syco

Colash wrote: »

I sold a car a while ago to a chap

If the engine blew up driving away from your house it'd still be tough sh|t.

Colash wrote: »

My only issue is I've received a solicitors letter DEMANDING payment or else

Google the solicitor to see if they even exist.

Colash

the_syco wrote: »

If the engine blew up driving away from your house it'd still be tough sh|t.


Google the solicitor to see if they even exist.

Oh they do exist . Googled them . It was a very professional , demanding , intimidating type letter .. Which when I first read I was shocked as I've never ever received a solicitors letter in my life ! Perhaps he was hoping the threatening manner of the letter would scare me into paying his bills

Procrastastudy

slimjimmc wrote: »

I seriously doubt any part of that is correct,
a) because the SCC does not deal in private sale disputes,

Special Criminal Court doesn't deal with any civil matters. :pac:

Small claims court jurisdiction is only €2,500 AFAIK.

slimjimmc

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Special Criminal Court doesn't deal with any civil matters. :pac:

Good 'un

Procrastastudy

slimjimmc wrote: »

Good 'un

To be fair the SCC is referred to that acronym - I know we use it in Consumer Issues to mean Small Claims Court but we're in Legal Discussions damn it!