Plumbing Query,what is correct method?

kmb

Hi,
The father in law has oil heating with the firebird boiler down 20ft from house in the garden.
He originally had back boiler heating in the kitchen fireplace.
When the oil heating was installed 2 extra rads were put in 1 in kitchen and one in conservatory.
He decided to get a stove and opted for back boiler stove for heating rads.
Now, the plumber had installed ball lever valves to isolate the stove from the oil and vicea versa so that each would not be heating the other.
I suggested maybe instead of the hand operated ball valves they should install non return valves but when this was done in the firebird boiler it operated for 3 days and then stopped. The plumber is due to call back ut he is also the postman...lol
What layout would ye recommend and any idea why the Firebird boiler stopped operating?
Should the non return valves be put in the hotpress which is downstairs approx. 3 ft from stove?
Incidentally the 2 ex rads were not in the original layout but added in the piping from Firebird to house.
Should the non return valve be on the flow or return?

All help appreciated.

Regards,

Kieran

shane0007

Impossible to answer without seeing or a diagram of the installation. Lever valves are a no no on the primary circuits.
Perhaps your postman should ask the milkman how to do it! If he doesn't know, a taxi driver might be yer man....

corkgsxr

They shouldn't be used to isolate when using one or the other. Non returns are the only way

sullzz

shane0007 wrote: »

Impossible to answer without seeing or a diagram of the installation. Lever valves are a no no on the primary circuits.
Perhaps your postman should ask the milkman how to do it! If he doesn't know, a taxi driver might be yer man....

Taxi drivers are only good for working on gas ...

knotknowbody

Perhaps a motorised tap could be useful, assume he has a timer or switch to turn on the firebird in the house this could also operate the motorised tap so it is in the correct position for whichever system is on, actually thinking about you will still need one way's.

aujopimur

He needs a plumber who knows what he's doing for a start.
Lever valves on a solid fuel is a recipy for a disaster.

gifted

kmb wrote: »

Hi,
The father in law has oil heating with the firebird boiler down 20ft from house in the garden.
He originally had back boiler heating in the kitchen fireplace.
When the oil heating was installed 2 extra rads were put in 1 in kitchen and one in conservatory.
He decided to get a stove and opted for back boiler stove for heating rads.
Now, the plumber had installed ball lever valves to isolate the stove from the oil and vicea versa so that each would not be heating the other.
I suggested maybe instead of the hand operated ball valves they should install non return valves but when this was done in the firebird boiler it operated for 3 days and then stopped. The plumber is due to call back ut he is also the postman...lol
What layout would ye recommend and any idea why the Firebird boiler stopped operating?
Should the non return valves be put in the hotpress which is downstairs approx. 3 ft from stove?
Incidentally the 2 ex rads were not in the original layout but added in the piping from Firebird to house.
Should the non return valve be on the flow or return?

All help appreciated.

Regards,

Kieran

Did he put NRV's on both the flow and return pipe? Wondering if he has starved the boiler of water?

Joey the lips

As you can see from the above its hard to say if its right or wrong without seeing it. There is also a couple of points need to be addressed. You cannot shut water off to one source that has the potential to be heated. ie the stove backboiler

Having said that. It does not mean its wrong. It might just the way your describing it. You will need it checked out and you will need a few questions asked. For example.

Is the postman qualified to install oil central heating. If not and he has put your life in danger its neglegience.

Having said all that. I know farmers who are Qualified mechanics. Milkmen who are Qualified software developers and Business managers who are part time cleaners. You do what you do to survive these days, BUT if its something like plumbing you need to be qualified

shane0007

Just remember non-return valves can only go on the secondary circuit of solid fuel & not on the primary circuit. They can go on the primary circuit for oil.
No valves, pumps or any other restrictions are also not allowed on solid fuel primary circuit.

Dtp79

kmb wrote: »

Hi,
The father in law has oil heating with the firebird boiler down 20ft from house in the garden.
He originally had back boiler heating in the kitchen fireplace.
When the oil heating was installed 2 extra rads were put in 1 in kitchen and one in conservatory.
He decided to get a stove and opted for back boiler stove for heating rads.
Now, the plumber had installed ball lever valves to isolate the stove from the oil and vicea versa so that each would not be heating the other.
I suggested maybe instead of the hand operated ball valves they should install non return valves but when this was done in the firebird boiler it operated for 3 days and then stopped. The plumber is due to call back ut he is also the postman...lol
What layout would ye recommend and any idea why the Firebird boiler stopped operating?
Should the non return valves be put in the hotpress which is downstairs approx. 3 ft from stove?
Incidentally the 2 ex rads were not in the original layout but added in the piping from Firebird to house.
Should the non return valve be on the flow or return?

All help appreciated.

Regards,

Kieran

Take a few pics of the job. Boiler, hotpress etc and any pumps u see

kmb

Hi All,
Called down today(40 miles away) to get more information and pics.
Now it seems that the firebird oil burner works but after rads get warm etc. after approx 20 minutes the overflow started spouting water from the attic.
And there is no nrv in the oil burner that i can see only a lever ball valve.
Also the very top pipe going into the stove was warm,hope he is not heating the boiler in the stove with the oil boiler or is this the norm?

Once again any help would be appreciated.
Ps anyone know a good plumber in west waterford/east cork?
Originally if you can imagine it had solid fuel boiler working perfect for years.
Then they got oil put in and 2 extra rads.
Then they cut the pipes to the the original backboiler and put a stove on the otherside and piped to that.

Regards,

Kieran

kmb

More Pics

kmb

Once More

Billy Bunting

I recon your Plumber/Postman has a part time job as a Clown, it would be funny if it wasnt people lives he's experimenting with, get shot of him and get in a real Plumber.

And i bet he wired it !!!

shane0007

Very poor workmanship. Atrocious wiring. Qualpex within a meter of the oil boiler flow! Qualpex very close to the stove flow also. You might have been better off with Dial-A-Cab.

Can't really see both sides of the cylinder but I wonder is it a single coil or a double coil cylinder. If only single, it will have to be changed.

Dtp79

kmb wrote: »

Once More

That is shocking. Get a real plumber in quick and don't use the solid fuel stove

kmb

Thanks for the response so far.
I know we need to get a new plumber but what should be done?
1.Nrv in Firebird boiler, feed or return I presume not both?
2.Nrv going to Stove? Top or bottom pipe?
3.Remove qualplex which is not the 1 metre from boiler.
4.Remove all ball valves?
5.Check if cylinder is single or dual?

Why would water be coming out of the overflow when the oil heating is on? Over pressure? Incorrect Piping?

I am just trying to understand why and what is incorrect to ensure that it is done properly.

Regards,
Kieran

Dtp79

kmb wrote: »

Thanks for the response so far.
I know we need to get a new plumber but what should be done?
1.Nrv in Firebird boiler, feed or return I presume not both?
2.Nrv going to Stove? Top or bottom pipe?
3.Remove qualplex which is not the 1 metre from boiler.
4.Remove all ball valves?
5.Check if cylinder is single or dual?

Why would water be coming out of the overflow when the oil heating is on? Over pressure? Incorrect Piping?

I am just trying to understand why and what is incorrect to ensure that it is done properly.

Regards,
Kieran

Consider everything incorrect so far until its checked.
Make sure it's a dual coil cyclinder
Remove all ball valves and install a motorised valve for zone heating
No nrv or any valves on solid fuel pipes from stove to cyclinder
Nrvs should be directly beside pumps if possible
Remove as much qualpex as you can get your hands on and replaced with copper
Re wire properly and safely
Small tank is overflowing probably due to incorrect piping
I cannot tell from the pics but make sure the pipes coming from the stove are 1"

kmb

Hi,
What i did notice was the pump in the oil boiler was set to 3,if the trvs on the rads were closed due to over air temp and only 1 or 2rads were hot would turning pump to 2 solve the problem of the water going back into the tank and so overflow?
Should we also check the setting on the other pump?
Please note both pumps are less than 6 months old.
They have 7 rads and all have TRVS fitted.

Regards,

Kieran

Dtp79

kmb wrote: »

Hi,
What i did notice was the pump in the oil boiler was set to 3,if the trvs on the rads were closed due to over air temp and only 1 or 2rads were hot would turning pump to 2 solve the problem of the water going back into the tank and so overflow?
Should we also check the setting on the other pump?
Please note both pumps are less than 6 months old.
They have 7 rads and all have TRVS fitted.

Regards,

Kieran

Turn it to setting 2 it might help but the real issue is the dreadful pipework that has to be sorted