Passat -v- Accord

plys

I'm in the market for an exec-saloon. I have €20k-€22k to spend.
Looking for something roomy, comfortable and with a few gadgets and decent spec
Average 600km per week so I guess diesel is a must.
Realistically I don't want anything older than 2010, but mileage must be low (sub 50k kms)

I have narrowed down to a new-shape Passat or an Accord.

Looking at asking prices for both cars - the Accord appears to command a much higher asking price. I would have considered these on a par and in my estimation, the list prices are fairly similar... Is the Accord really that much better of a car, or are used-Honda dealers just living in the clouds?

Any opinions / suggestions would be gladly appreciated.

plys

Frankie Lee

Accord would be far superior in most ways but as you say is reflected in the price. Have you considered looking at a Hyundai i40 at all?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Hyundai/i40/EXECUTIV/34313605811178050/advert?channel=CARS

Green Hornet

Yes, the Accord is a superior car. The prices when new and secondhand reflect that though. I think the diesels start at 33k and rise to 42k. They are pushing into the BMW/Audi bracket. The Passat is a 'class' below that.

Edit: Those i40 are nice looking cars alright. A few of them on the road now too.

plys

Yeah I had taken a look at the i40 alright. The 5 year warranty is a good selling point but can't beat my perception of Hondas being bulletproof...

Frankie Lee

Hyundai and Kia are probably still a little bit short of Honda in build quality but in terms of value for money and in comparison to the European manufacturers they are a great buy.

staker

Accord would be far better specced than a Passat OP,I'd imagine the Passat would be more frugal on fuel consumption though.
I've an '09 Accord and very happy with it overall, apart from the mpg which I thought might shove towards the high 40's, but easy enough to hold in the early 40's.

Green Hornet

staker wrote: »

Accord would be far better specced than a Passat OP,I'd imagine the Passat would be more frugal on fuel consumption though.
I've an '09 Accord and very happy with it overall, apart from the mpg which I thought might shove towards the high 40's, but easy enough to hold in the early 40's.

Snap - mine runs around 47mpg. Really long motorway trip might hit 50 but that would be an exception.

The last model was lighter on juice, but not exactly light either. I suppose the 2.2l doesn't help that.

Saab Ed

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Hyundai and Kia are probably still a little bit short of Honda in build quality but in terms of value for money and in comparison to the European manufacturers they are a great buy.

Sorry to go off track here but how does this perception still persist! An i40 saloon has old skool Korean comedy side streak styling, its not a particularly nice place to sit in compared to similar priced cars and now that I've brought the price up, its not exactly what you'd call "value" these days. Infact it, and more so its Kia Optima sister, are down right expensive compared to what can be bought in the class. Baffles me!

But back to the main question. Its got to be an Accord. A) its a superior car, its way way better built and most importantly C) people wont think you're a memebr of an Irish ethnic minority who's children have wandery eyes, loads of hair on the top of their head, shaven round the back and call everybody Sir.

hare

Them passats are alcoholics.

robertxxx

Honda, by a mile.

randy hickey

Saab Ed wrote: »

Sorry to go off track here but how does this perception still persist! An i40 saloon has old skool Korean comedy side streak styling, its not a particularly nice place to sit in compared to similar priced cars and now that I've brought the price up, its not exactly what you'd call "value" these days. Infact it, and more so its Kia Optima sister, are down right expensive compared to what can be bought in the class. Baffles me!

But back to the main question. Its got to be an Accord. A) its a superior car, its way way better built and most importantly C) people wont think you're a memebr of an Irish ethnic minority who's children have wandery eyes, loads of hair on the top of their head, shaven round the back and call everybody Sirboss.

Fixed your post!!

BTW, agree 100% with the sentiment that the Accord is far superior to the Passat imo.

bazz26

OP, maybe the Passat CC is an option? They are a bit more exclusive than a regular Passat and nearer the spec of the Accord.

thenashlegend

As most are saying, I'd choose the Accord too! Having had both a 2004 A4 and Accord I'd have to recommend the Honda for comfort and spec. Leather seats, satnav, sunroof, steering controls and all that really add to it. Compared to the A4 which feels like it runs on turf, the Accord is so much more refined!

Just a thought though, Honda's have a reputation of being reliable, truthfully I didnt notice any great difference in the two. Even though I found two very clean examples with a FSH. I think Honda have since resolved most of the issues with the 7th gen Accords...but its just a thought. Both took service parts, the A4 cost me 420 for a timing belt kit and an extra tensioner, the Accord took a throttle position sensor and a recon turbo which cost about 700 all in!

Either way, I'd choose the Accord again, happy motoring!

imtdub

Can't beat a Jap when it comes to quality, I know German quality is not bad too... just check the recent JD Power dependability study and all the Japanese manufacturers are in top 10... I would go for Honda even though you may not see many on the Irish roads...

trabpc

As we have an 05 accord diesel for 4 years my vote goes accord. Other than honda replacing chain and injectors last year and manifold all paid for by honda we have had no issues l. Never cost us a penny other than service costs. To be fair to car my own mechanic prob used wrong oil but honda still covered all parts. The chain prob did not need replacing but as I was 5 days away from 7 year warranty expiring the Honda mechanic said I may as well. Can't see bmw covering parts for 7 years. I agree price is close to bmw etc but you will have little problems. I average 52 mpg in accord. My wife about 47. It her car. I believe 08+ accord diesel engine is even better. Bought with 40,000 now 120,000 miles. NI car originally.

akasudonim

Op had the same decision this week and bought a '10 Accord yesterday. Tested Passat, i40, Optima, Octavia, IS220 and A4. Love the Accord, A4 very close second, but Passat and Octavia 1.6 diesel very impressive. Surprised by size of A-pillar in i40 and Optima!

Head would say Octavia or Passat diesel, good MPG, low tax, and warranty big attraction on the i40 and Optima, but Accord had best mix. EX is lovely!

A Honda dealer in Tipp is selling '09 and '10 ex-UK Accord EX's for your budget, and giving 2 yrs warranty. Worth checking.

Good luck hunting!

plys

Thanks for all your opinions, certainly some food for thought. I definitely thought the Accord would hit better than low 40's mpg-wise, so that might be a concern. My last car was a Focus 1.6TDCI which I got about 55-60mpg consistently (lots of motorway on my commute ).
Won't be rushing to decide.
I have only ever bought private before. What are the Honda main dealers like to deal with? From what trabpc said, the aftersales/service seems good - but do you pay for that up front in the price of the motor?

Green Hornet

You won't get 55-60mpg from it. It's a bigger engine than the focus and built like a tank so that's not a big surprise really. You should be able to get 45-50mpg though.

plys

50 I could live with. Was involved in a fairly heavy collision in the Focus and, while I wouldn't fault the Focus at all, safety is definitely high on the agenda.

NobodyImportant

Accord on a mostly motorway driving will get very low 50's mpg out of it (depending what speed you set the cruise contol to!). Its a super engine in them.

randy hickey

Thought of this thread when I stumbled across this video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0vDnPz80-A

And on THAT bombshell..........:D

bazz26

The US versions of both the Accord and Passat are totally different cars to those we get here in Europe though.

@30

OP why not convert a vtec to LPG ?

Depending on where you live but there is a LPG outlet in Naas and Kilcullen and a few others that sell it for 81 C/L and 75 C/L in summer.

I did the maths and @30 mpg it would be as cheap as a 60 mpg diesel. So if the Accord or Passat can't get 60 mpg at least per tank the LPG would work out cheaper. LPG.ie check it out, I'm not linked to them in any way, but I am a big believer in LPG and Electric.

I worked out that the Prius MK III would be as cheap to run as a 100 mpg car on LPG. @81 C/L

Anyway I would just rather the vtec over any diesel. Sure the road tax may be higher by maybe 300 euro or so but the fuel savings would make up for that and the fact you will pick up the accord petrols cheaper with a lot less miles.

plys

Deleted User wrote: »

OP why not convert a vtec to LPG ?

Depending on where you live but there is a LPG outlet in Naas and Kilcullen and a few others that sell it for 81 C/L and 75 C/L in summer.

I did the maths and @30 mpg it would be as cheap as a 60 mpg diesel. So if the Accord or Passat can't get 60 mpg at least per tank the LPG would work out cheaper. LPG.ie check it out, I'm not linked to them in any way, but I am a big believer in LPG and Electric.

I worked out that the Prius MK III would be as cheap to run as a 100 mpg car on LPG. @81 C/L

Anyway I would just rather the vtec over any diesel. Sure the road tax may be higher by maybe 300 euro or so but the fuel savings would make up for that and the fact you will pick up the accord petrols cheaper with a lot less miles.

Had a look at the LPG option and to be honest it confuses me a little..

From what I gather, they stick a tank in your boot and convert the fuel intake system to run on both regular petrol and LPG. Then you buy autogas from one of the LPG outlets (of which they are very few close to me), and happy day's you save about 40-50% on fuel cost for as long as you have LPG in your tank (obviously excluding the sunk costs of conversion).

So what happens when you run out of LPG and are miles from an LPG pump? Do you flick a switch to move back over to using regular petrol? Can it be done while the car is running and in motion, or do you have to stop in the hard shoulder, turn off the engine, flick a switch, and then start 'er up again???

One other thing - how do the tanks compare? I read somewhere on boards that you can get a tank in the spare wheel well. How much autogas can one of these hold?

Sorry, I'm not very good at chemistry, but if it's stored in the tank in liquid form, does the capacity of the tank (and also the price per litre) correspond to regular petrol?

Sorry for all the questions, just I think that if it sounds too good to be true, then it generally is..!


Edit: i'm in Meath, so the availibility of LPG to me is limited..

plys

plys wrote: »

Had a look at the LPG option and to be honest it confuses me a little..

From what I gather, they stick a tank in your boot and convert the fuel intake system to run on both regular petrol and LPG. Then you buy autogas from one of the LPG outlets (of which they are very few close to me), and happy day's you save about 40-50% on fuel cost for as long as you have LPG in your tank (obviously excluding the sunk costs of conversion).

So what happens when you run out of LPG and are miles from an LPG pump? Do you flick a switch to move back over to using regular petrol? Can it be done while the car is running and in motion, or do you have to stop in the hard shoulder, turn off the engine, flick a switch, and then start 'er up again???

One other thing - how do the tanks compare? I read somewhere on boards that you can get a tank in the spare wheel well. How much autogas can one of these hold?

Sorry, I'm not very good at chemistry, but if it's stored in the tank in liquid form, does the capacity of the tank (and also the price per litre) correspond to regular petrol?

Sorry for all the questions, just I think that if it sounds too good to be true, then it generally is..!


Edit: i'm in Meath, so the availibility of LPG to me is limited..

I found out from lpg.ie that for the Honda vtec engines you need to add some lubricant for the valves.

The VW tsi's need a very expensive conversion kit because they are direct injected, so I guess that rules out the VAG petrols for conversion.

So my bet would be on the vtec engines, I can't imagine the lubricant would work out that expensive, it's about 10 euro's a bottle and lasts around 10,000 kms (don't quote me on that) I asked lpg.ie about it they said it costs 10 euro's, but I read on a prius forum it lasts around 10,000 kms. However lpg.ie said that you don't need it for Toyota engines, I think people use it as a precaution ?

The Prius conversion holds a 50 ltr tank.

According to Prius owners who converted they see an average of 5-10% extra consumption on LPG, nothing really.

Regarding the sunken costs as you say, well the mileage I was doing would have paid me back in around 6 or 7 months. Obviously the more you use the more you save.

I believe the system is fully automated, so if you run out it will automatically switch to petrol.

The car has to start on petrol and in relation to the Prius runs on petrol for around 15 seconds or so.

I can get LPG for 81 C/L or 75 in summer, but I'm not doing the miles any more and not sure how long more I want to keep the Prius.

plys

Deleted User wrote: »

I found out from lpg.ie that for the Honda vtec engines you need to add some lubricant for the valves.

The VW tsi's need a very expensive conversion kit because they are direct injected, so I guess that rules out the VAG petrols for conversion.

So my bet would be on the vtec engines, I can't imagine the lubricant would work out that expensive, it's about 10 euro's a bottle and lasts around 10,000 kms (don't quote me on that) I asked lpg.ie about it they said it costs 10 euro's, but I read on a prius forum it lasts around 10,000 kms. However lpg.ie said that you don't need it for Toyota engines, I think people use it as a precaution ?

The Prius conversion holds a 50 ltr tank.

According to Prius owners who converted they see an average of 5-10% extra consumption on LPG, nothing really.

Regarding the sunken costs as you say, well the mileage I was doing would have paid me back in around 6 or 7 months. Obviously the more you use the more you save.

I believe the system is fully automated, so if you run out it will automatically switch to petrol.

The car has to start on petrol and in relation to the Prius runs on petrol for around 15 seconds or so.

I can get LPG for 81 C/L or 75 in summer, but I'm not doing the miles any more and not sure how long more I want to keep the Prius.

Thanks for this Mad_Lad. A Prius with an LPG tank in the boot... you must have no space left in it at all??! Or is it in the spare wheel well?

plys

plys wrote: »

Thanks for this Mad_Lad. A Prius with an LPG tank in the boot... you must have no space left in it at all??! Or is it in the spare wheel well?

I don't have mine converted, shame I didn't know much about LPG before I got it as It would have saved me at least 3500-4000 Euro's, I don't know if I would convert it after 2 years of ownership. I don't know how much longer I will keep it.

But yeah, the tank would fit in the spare wheel well.

Is there an LPG outlet any where close to you ? on route anywhere you regularly go ?

@81

You know if you are spending 20-22K, if doing that mileage then the MK III Prius is a seriously sensible car as it can get 74 mpg on petrol, it would work out at at around 95-100 mpg in petrol or diesel terms. @81 C/L LPG.

I would rather save as much on fuel as possible, and a Prius T-Spirit has some cool gadgets. You can find them in the U.K easier.

Diesel will still cost you doing that mileage. LPG offers serious savings especially in a high mpg car like the Prius.

creedp

Deleted User wrote: »

But yeah, the tank would fit in the spare wheel well.

Another reason to be p1ssed off having to drive a 7 seater - no spare wheel well and no boot to put tank in when seats are up - stuck with the TCDi I'm afraid

creedp

creedp wrote: »

Another reason to be p1ssed off having to drive a 7 seater - no spare wheel well and no boot to put tank in when seats are up - stuck with the TCDi I'm afraid

No boot ? What do you think goes in the wheel well ?

If you would be willing to pay a lot more for petrol or diesel for the sake of a can of foam, then what can I say ?

Maybe you don't do the miles to care and petrol and diesel doesn't cost you a lot in a year ?

As I said the biggest savings would be in the Prius, especially the MK III. It would cost half or less than your 7 sweater to run, but it would probably be to small for you.

Tea 1000

Deleted User wrote: »

No boot ? What do you think goes in the wheel well ?

If you would be willing to pay a lot more for petrol or diesel for the sake of a can of foam, then what can I say ?

Maybe you don't do the miles to care and petrol and diesel doesn't cost you a lot in a year ?

As I said the biggest savings would be in the Prius, especially the MK III. It would cost half or less than your 7 sweater to run, but it would probably be to small for you.

I wouldn't put that much faith in a can of foam. The wife clipped a stone jutting out from a ditch recently while avoiding someone on a corner over their line, and ended up with the sidewall busted!

Fair enough, though I can honestly say that in the last 2 years I haven't got a single puncture.

Though if I was saving 1500 euros a year over petrol or diesel,I'd say screw it and take my chances with the foam.

Or I'd just put the tank in the boot, I wouldn't mind a smaller tank and fill up every 2-3 days.

There are much worse things to bother me.

Tea 1000

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair enough, though I can honestly say that in the last 2 years I haven't got a single puncture.

Though if I was saving 1500 euros a year over petrol or diesel,I'd say screw it and take my chances with the foam.

Or I'd just put the tank in the boot, I wouldn't mind a smaller tank and fill up every 2-3 days.

There are much worse things to bother me.

True, but it depends on how you use your car. 7 seaters really give you frig all space in the boot, so not much point in getting to your destination for half price if you have to turn around and go back for the luggage on a second run!
Here's a question though, can you use the Spare Wheel cover the outside of a 4x4 like a CRV as a tank? Or must it be inside?

Oh I'd say for sure that I'd would have to be inside for protection more than anything.

I suppose if you lug a lot of stuff around, I don't really, so I could see the problem that's why I wouldn't hesitate with putting it in the wheel well.