Why aren't properties designed and built for Irish weather?

Mr. Loverman

I was back in Ireland for a wedding and had forgotten just how cold the place is. Even though where I live is technically much colder (Beijing), because the air is dry and because there is a public heating system on nearly 24 hours a day in each apartment, I can lounge around in my boxers when it is -10 or whatever outside.

So I'm back in Ireland and noticed people's houses/apartments are quite cold, even though it is much warmer than Beijing outside.

I understand there is no public heating system and I understand electricity/oil/gas are expensive in Ireland, but it seems odd that all properties aren't insulted like crazy and have double glazing and all those other things which would make a home much warmer.

Am I right in thinking many homes are not being designed and built with Irish weather in mind? If so, why?

littlejp

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

but it seems odd that all properties aren't insulted like crazy

You're doing your part!

I've often wondered that myself. You see places like Sweden where you triple glazing is standard to deal with much colder climates and reduce reliance on fossil fuels, then you see houses here made with the cheapest materials and covered in windows. Some people's heating bills must be huge.

Mr. Loverman

littlejp wrote: »

You're doing your part!

I've often wondered that myself. You see places like Sweden where you triple glazing is standard to deal with much colder climates and reduce reliance on fossil fuels, then you see houses here made with the cheapest materials and covered in windows. Some people's heating bills must be huge.

Haha sorry using my phone which autocorrects everything to stuff I don't want to say!

The thing which hit me when I was here is how lovely Ireland would be if you were always coming home to a warm, comfortable home... but most people come home to a cold, poorly built home. Seems weird!

I guess self-building is (unfortunately) the way to go.

Lantus

The technology to build houses that require virtually no heating whatsoever (passiv haus) has existed since the 70's.

Big business especially construction and large trade unions will quite often lobby government like mad against such moves and have historically done so in the past in particular in the UK. This is why insulation values have 'inched' there way up rather than just moved to the most logical and rational position that our technology can realise.

In our monetray society the motivation to make money and profit outweighs environmental and human factors.

Muilleann

Most of the houses built in the latter stages of the boom were only "slapped" up and a lot of them are only fit to be knocked now especially the unoccupied ones.

Your point about insulation is dead on,most of our houses simply "leak" heat.

Diarmuid

Because Irish people have historically put little emphasis on it when buying a house. The fact that something had 4 walls and a roof was more than enough to get people climbing over each other to pay €500k a few years ago, tells it's own story.

riclad

Look at grand designs, c4, it costs much more ,to build passive insulation,house, you need special heating, ,air exchange,system, much thicker,walls,
Most people buy a house, put in double,or triple glazing,insulate the attic,
it pays for itself in ten years.
Builders were building ,apartments,cost 90k, sale price 250k,government was getting say 40k stamp duty,
who cares if the buyer was getting screwed.
EVERY building is different, eg the new council,houses, apartments,built since 2001,
are built to a very high standard of insulation,energy effeciency ,
They were properly inspected.
Look at cars like the prius, they are so expensive,only very rich people could afford one.At least the building regulations are much better now,
re insulation standards.

flintash

There was another thread regarding cold irish weather, not to sure if OP was not involved in that conversation back then. Basically, it was about humidity affect on "feeling cold". I suppose recently i spotted same when traveling back home to "Siberia" (ryanair term used for this) In those old soviet build apartment blocks with no cheap heating any more it felt more warmer and cousy than here. Dont mind 10 inches of snow and -10C during the day.
It felt warmer under +18C !!!!, than here +20C in my house. Now, humidity there was 30-40 (actually they put damp rags on rads to humidify the air) here 70 at best, usually 80 and more. I believe thats why OP gets feeling of cold.

BostonB

riclad wrote: »

....eg the new council,houses, apartments,built since 2001, are built to a very high standard of insulation,energy effeciency , They were properly inspected....

I assume you're being sarcastic.

Priory Hall highlighted the lack of on-site building inspection in Ireland. The Government requires local authorities to inspect just 12-15% of buildings. In 2010, the last year for which figures are available, the average local authority inspected just a quarter of buildings. Four local authorities failed to meet their target, and two, Wexford County Council and Waterford City Council, inspected no buildings at all.

But the Irish Home Builders Association, a division of the Construction Industry Federation (CIF), defended Irish builders in the wake of Priory Hall, and said the system of self-certifying buildings had worked well.

“Priory Hall is an exceptional case” director Hubert Fitzpatrick told Construction, the CIF magazine last October. But is it really?

None of the houses examined for a study of 52 homes built between 1997 and 2002 complied fully with building regulations. The study was commissioned by the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland but never published. Green building magazine Construct Ireland, of which I’m deputy editor, obtained it last year.

The study examined the homes for compliance with regulations on energy efficiency, ventilation and “heat producing appliances”. Just one complied with energy-efficiency rules in full, almost half failed to meet the rules for heat producing appliances, and over 40% failed to minimum ventilation standards.

http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2012/06/priory-hall-is-no-exception/

BostonB

Lantus wrote: »

...In our monetray society the motivation to make money and profit outweighs environmental and human factors.

That it in one.

How can you buy a house (or anything) for 100,000+ and have no warranty or comeback on the builder as faults are discovered in time without suing them.

If you want something built right and to a good standard in this country you have to do it yourself.

BostonB

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

...I was back in Ireland for a wedding and had forgotten just how cold the place is. Even though where I live is technically much colder (Beijing), because the air is dry and because there is a public heating system on nearly 24 hours a day in each apartment, I can lounge around in my boxers when it is -10 or whatever outside.....

I don't know the details, but China's not that bothered about energy emission though is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

I think theres better examples than China. Denmark for example

http://www.bigee.net/en/policy/guide/new-buildings/package/14/

For example, the minimum requirement for new residential buildings in Denmark is given by an upper limit of (50+1600/A) kWh/m2/yr (A: heated gross floor area). Included in the energy performance is energy for heating, ventilation, cooling and domestic hot water (Hansen 2010).
As a result of the policies, the energy efficiency of households was improved by almost 16% between 1990 and 2008.

circadian

BostonB wrote: »

I don't know the details, but China's not that bothered about energy emission though is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

I think theres better examples than China. Denmark for example

http://www.bigee.net/en/policy/guide/new-buildings/package/14/

Having recently been to China they seem to be energy conscious on new buildings. Shanghai's spectacular skyline only remains lit for some of the night and most office blocks in cities go dark at night. It's common to see lights on in empty offices in North America in particular.

As for Irish homes not being insulated, it will certainly be a big factor for me in buying a home. It must be energy effecient or straightforward enough to get into shape.
I totally agree with the OP. I was living in Canada and on a trip home my parents house felt cold. I was cold the whole time in Ireland.

riclad

OK,, Priory hall was built by a private builder,
i mean apartments,built by the council, on council land ,eg ballymun ,new houses ,apartments.
Most private dwellings,in the boom, were never inspected ,so it was up to the builder to fit insulation, as per the architects plans,or building regulations.IF he felt like it.
Most people who buy a house nowadays put in pvc,windows, extra insulation, if they can afford it.

flowerific

flintash wrote: »

There was another thread regarding cold irish weather, not to sure if OP was not involved in that conversation back then. Basically, it was about humidity affect on "feeling cold". I suppose recently i spotted same when traveling back home to "Siberia" (ryanair term used for this) In those old soviet build apartment blocks with no cheap heating any more it felt more warmer and cousy than here. Dont mind 10 inches of snow and -10C during the day.
It felt warmer under +18C !!!!, than here +20C in my house. Now, humidity there was 30-40 (actually they put damp rags on rads to humidify the air) here 70 at best, usually 80 and more. I believe thats why OP gets feeling of cold.

Yeh I think you knocke dit on the head there!. It's our wet climate that leads to high humidity that makes it feel more damp and cold. New build apatments and houses are actually better insulated than before and have to have a BER cert. This means that when you have the heating up high and the outside temp is cold and wet, with high humidity, the inside of your house ends up with very high humidity readings of around 70/80% +
and then because the house is well insulated the humidy has no where to escape and you end up with condensation and damp. So it's a catch 22 situation. Open/Vent the house/apt to let out humidity and you also let out the heating. It's a damp country so will always feel colder even if temps are higher than a cold country with dryer air

Mr. Loverman

flowerific wrote: »

when you have the heating up high and the outside temp is cold and wet, with high humidity, the inside of your house ends up with very high humidity readings of around 70/80% +
and then because the house is well insulated the humidy has no where to escape and you end up with condensation and damp. So it's a catch 22 situation.

Is there an alternative for our weather, i.e. a way to not get the dampness?

flintash

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Is there an alternative for our weather, i.e. a way to not get the dampness?

i thought airtight home with mhrv could achieve this. and probably being as far from the coast as you can.
oh another alternative- emigrate

riclad

I assume ber ratings, were brought in to encourage builders,and homeowners to put in high levels of insulation and save energy ,and help the environment ,EG reduce co2 emissions.

MadsL

littlejp wrote: »

You're doing your part!

I've often wondered that myself. You see places like Sweden where you triple glazing is standard to deal with much colder climates and reduce reliance on fossil fuels, then you see houses here made with the cheapest materials and covered in windows. Some people's heating bills must be huge.

I hit a record two monthly €550 bill in a 3 bed boom-built apt, poxy storage heaters and al electric apt. There was a 18 inch gap above the drywall in the ceilings. You could feel draughts from the rest of the apartment block blowing through the space left above the ceiling.

BostonB

riclad wrote: »

I assume ber ratings, were brought in to encourage builders,and homeowners to put in high levels of insulation and save energy ,and help the environment ,EG reduce co2 emissions.

Believe is one thing. Reality is another.

Energy Ireland (SEI) have been sitting on a Report for approximately 3 years which indicates that there is a general non-compliance rate of 70% (that’s right folks !) with the minimal – some might say “abysmal” – energy performance requirements, which apply to new houses, in Part L of the Irish Building Regulations.

http://www.cjwalsh.ie/2008/12/building-energy-rating-ber-certificates-worried/