Julie Bindell in the Gaurdian making me angry!

baby and crumble

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/13/fox-news-marrying-lesbians-kissing

Although the sight of a butch lesbian is usually shocking to the heteros, the women mocking up as men these days seem to be doing so to adhere to, rather than disrupt, the status quo. I do get confused sometimes as to what feminists such as myself have achieved in breaking down gender rules and campaigning for an end to masculine and feminine stereotypes when lesbians leap right back into the 1950s. Maybe if we had been having white weddings for thousands of years we would be looking at how to subvert the ceremony by now, rather than follow the naffest traditions of old, even if it means decking out in dungarees and Dr Martens and having the cats as bridesmaids.

:mad::mad::mad:

As someone who is moving closer and closer to butch, and actually finding it very freeing and comfortable, I find her accusation that I am "mocking up" as a man deeply... not offensive, necessarily. Just anger inducing. Like the only 'right' way to be a good lesbian is for us all to run around in dresses and slinky tops.

I do not dress the way I do because I want to perform some sort of pseudo-man role.

And come to think of it, why is being gay inherently rebellious? I'm not rebelling against anything. I am excited to get married some day, because I have found someone I love and I want to share my life with her- the good AND the bad. I want to have all the rights, yes, but also the responsibilities.

I get so annoyed when people dismiss butch lesbians and camp gay men as 'bad press' or something. We have short memories; if it weren't for the camp gay men, butch lesbians, and the drag queens- the ones that stuck out and couldn't be in the closet back in the 50's and 60's we would have had no Stonewall, no Pride marches and no gay rights movement.

What do other people think?

wonderfulname

That woman would hate me, and I love it, to me she's even more narrow minded than guys who've chastised me assuming I'm a gay man. It's bad enough attacking the 'other' without assuming to be one yourself.

As an aside, at this point I think the guardian are publishing her drivel for the backlash.

There will always be people who are touted as speaking for one highly varied minority or another, there will always be others who take what they say as the truth, so long as you stay true to yourself and are comfortable in it I don't see why it should matter. I might be wrong, but my impression of rad fems is cause matters more than humanity, and I'm never going to have time for people who see the world in that light.

Rothmans

I agree with ya. I'm just a bit perplexed as to why a feminist is coming out with this Surely it shouldn't matter to a true feminist whether someone fits into traditional gender roles.

baby and crumble

Rothmans wrote: »

I agree with ya. I'm just a bit perplexed as to why a feminist is coming out with this Surely it shouldn't matter to a true feminist whether someone fits into traditional gender roles.

Ah but you see apparently butches are just trying to be men, and that would mean women want to be men, which flies in the face of traditional feminism.

Or some such guff.

ashers22

yep, you have a responsibilty to just stop making all us other women and people in general confused :pac:

Links234

baby and crumble wrote: »

What do other people think?

She's a professional troll. Be it her horrendous transphobia, biphobia, her oppossition to marriage equality (because we shouldn't conform), her calls for straight women to "try" lesbianism thereby suggesting sexuality is a choice, yet paradoxically calling out and shaming "fake" lesbians and bisexuals in the next breath, her opinions on the LGBTQI movement and how it should just be G&L because she wants the freaks with odd sexual practices booted out of "her" movement, or her opinions that gay men kissing in public is distasteful and unpleasant... the papers are always happy to trot out another offensive screed from her because it gets people outraged and gets them commenting and generates page views for their adverisers.

It's pretty much all the same conservative clap-trap, just packaged in a "liberal" facade, and forget for a minute that the author is a feminist, you could see the almost exact same thing coming from Richard Littlejohn. It's a sort of painful reminder that some LGBT people are only accepting enough to not hate themselves.

It's particularly sad in Julie Bindel's case, because through her writings you can see a narrative of nostalgia for a time when her simply being a lesbian was revolutionary, and the forward momentum of the LGBT movement has left her scared of not being seen as the revolutionary any more, while the acceptance of "freaks" like bisexual and transgender people are just too much for her. It's almost as if she wishes she could dial back the clock on gay civil rights so that she could be relevant again. She's a real life Grampa Simpson:

"I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me. It'll happen to you..."

ashers22

Links234 wrote: »

She's a professional troll. Be it her horrendous transphobia, biphobia, her oppossition to marriage equality (because we shouldn't conform), her calls for straight women to "try" lesbianism thereby suggesting sexuality is a choice, yet paradoxically calling out and shaming "fake" lesbians and bisexuals in the next breath, her opinions on the LGBTQI movement and how it should just be G&L because she wants the freaks with odd sexual practices booted out of "her" movement, or her opinions that gay men kissing in public is distasteful and unpleasant... the papers are always happy to trot out another offensive screed from her because it gets people outraged and gets them commenting and generates page views for their adverisers.

It's pretty much all the same conservative clap-trap, just packaged in a "liberal" facade, and forget for a minute that the author is a feminist, you could see the almost exact same thing coming from Richard Littlejohn. It's a sort of painful reminder that some LGBT people are only accepting enough to not hate themselves.

It's particularly sad in Julie Bindel's case, because through her writings you can see a narrative of nostalgia for a time when her simply being a lesbian was revolutionary, and the forward momentum of the LGBT movement has left her scared of not being seen as the revolutionary any more, while the acceptance of "freaks" like bisexual and transgender people are just too much for her. It's almost as if she wishes she could dial back the clock on gay civil rights so that she could be relevant again. She's a real life Grampa Simpson:

"I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me. It'll happen to you..."

sounds like your typical gaybourhood friendly lesbian to me

Shakti

wtf julie like adorable yah........

Beruthiel

I do get confused sometimes as to what feminists such as myself have achieved in breaking down gender rules and campaigning for an end to masculine and feminine stereotypes when lesbians leap right back into the 1950s.

She just might want to broaden her understanding of the word feminist.
For me, part of it is being female and looking like whatever the hell I want to look like and the freedom to do so.

Annasopra

I think anyone can be feminist - as a male I consider myself a feminist