A3 Ranking Points 2013

wav1

This was confirmed to me today.
After last years Cycling Ireland AGM I was under the impression that a full allocation of A3 points were to be dished out at each race.

What I mean by this,is that if there were a few Juniors in the top placings of a race,then you would continue down the placings until you got the first 8 or 10 actual A3s to give out a full allocation.

This has now been deemed unworkable by Cycling Ireland due to the lack of photo finish equipment across all regions in a similar manner.Quite simply the A3s will still have to finish in the top 8 or 10 to achieve points regardless of how many juniors are also in the placings.
The points system has been extended where riders will get points for the first eight in a race up to 100km,and the first ten in a race over 100km.
Just thought I'd let ye all know before you start looking for those points.
With the amount of quality juniors in the races this year I think it will hinder the progress of a lot of A3s,but we'll just have to wait and see.

chakattack

wav1 wrote: »

This was confirmed to me today.
After last years Cycling Ireland AGM I was under the impression that a full allocation of A3 points were to be dished out at each race.

What I mean by this,is that if there were a few Juniors in the top placings of a race,then you would continue down the placings until you got the first 8 or 10 actual A3s to give out a full allocation.

This has now been deemed unworkable by Cycling Ireland due to the lack of photo finish equipment across all regions in a similar manner.Quite simply the A3s will still have to finish in the top 8 or 10 to achieve points regardless of how many juniors are also in the placings.
The points system has been extended where riders will get points for the first eight in a race up to 100km,and the first ten in a race over 100km.
Just thought I'd let ye all know before you start looking for those points.
With the amount of quality juniors in the races this year I think it will hinder the progress of a lot of A3s,but we'll just have to wait and see.

Make them ride A1/A2 if they're ability matches?

Chips Lovell

Putting juniors into A1/A2 races is never going to happen. They've received lots of advice on the dangers of over-racing juniors and this has been deemed the safest approach.

wav1

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Putting juniors into A1/A2 races is never going to happen. They've received lots of advice on the dangers of over-racing juniors and this has been deemed the safest approach.

I agree totally.The reason the juns race with the A3s is to protect them at 16 and 17 years of age.This is not a jun problem at all,but it is a problem with getting A3s up through the rankings quick enough.If the full allocatio had to go ahead it would have helped but we're back to square one now imo.

Diarmuid

chakattack wrote: »

Make them ride A1/A2 if they're ability matches?

It's hard enough to get up in A1/A2 races without having to beat guys like Cormac Clarke and Ryan Mullen too. I'm all for keeping them in A3s

chakattack

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Putting juniors into A1/A2 races is never going to happen. They've received lots of advice on the dangers of over-racing juniors and this has been deemed the safest approach.

I don't really buy this. Over training is the problem not race distance/intensity and that's down to the coaches to manage.

The Junior Tour at 5 days and > 500km is harder than any A3 race.

Maybe the rule could be partially implemented where photo finish equipment is in place?

If you have accumulation of points past 10 by the Juniors it will stop progression and A3 numbers will become a bottleneck.

wav1

chakattack wrote: »

I don't really buy this. Over training is the problem not race distance/intensity and that's down to the coaches to manage.

The Junior Tour at 5 days and > 500km is harder than any A3 race.

Maybe the rule could be partially implemented where photo finish equipment is in place?

If you have accumulation of points past 10 by the Juniors it will stop progression and A3 numbers will become a bottleneck.

Cant be partially implemented as it would be unfair on the riders where the foto finish is not available.You would either have to do it at all events or none as is now the case
As regards the junior tour.Yes it is a hard race.But the juniors are competing against other juniors and not the A1s of the world.

Peterx

wav1 wrote: »

Cant be partially implemented as it would be unfair on the riders where the foto finish is not available.You would either have to do it at all events or none as is now the case
As regards the junior tour.Yes it is a hard race.But the juniors are competing against other juniors and not the A1s of the world.

It could be partially implemented.
If the organisers have a high speed video finish in place it should be used.

It would be more unfair and a waste of available technology if the race organisers were to ignore photo finish evidence if they have it available anyway.

wav1

Peterx wrote: »

It could be partially implemented.
If the organisers have a high speed video finish in place it should be used.

It would be more unfair and a waste of available technology if the race organisers were to ignore photo finish evidence if they have it available anyway.

Dont shoot the messenger here.
I would love to see it implemented as it would help the flow through the categories to no end
The issue with not enough technology being available at all races has come directly from Cycling Ireland and they have deemed it unworkable.My only input here is to make riders aware of the situation as we head in to the season
as I feel some riders were of the opinion that points would be awarded this year to a full compliment of A3S.

chakattack

wav1 wrote: »

Dont shoot the messenger here.
I would love to see it implemented as it would help the flow through the categories to no end
The issue with not enough technology being available at all races has come directly from Cycling Ireland and they have deemed it unworkable.My only input here is to make riders aware of the situation as we head in to the season
as I feel some riders were of the opinion that points would be awarded this year to a full compliment of A3S.

I know that you were pushing for it in the first place, so I'm just venting generally and not at you

I'm sure we both agree it's not a great setup. Pity the problem wasn't highlighted months ago.

Peterx

From the first post ~ "This has now been deemed unworkable by Cycling Ireland due to the lack of photo finish equipment across all regions in a similar manner"

Assuming some of the A1/A2 races around the regions are operating without photo finishing equipment this is an inconsistent policy.
If it acceptable for A1/A2 to make use of technology whenever it is available and it could be good enough for A3/Junior as well.

The statement could just as easily read as follows

"Where the equipment is available the Junior will be filtered out and the A3 full points allocation will be made. Where there is no photo finish equipment the first 8 across the line get the points. "

With a general note reminding overexcited A3's that race organisers are very busy people and please avoid badgering them at finish lines where the technology is not available..

morana

I have and will still argue that a Camcorder on a tripod should be able to do the job. I was at a swords race where Robfowl was using an iphone with a few others and they sorted out the placings.
if we had all of the races covered by photo finish it would be great but theres lots of other solutions.

chakattack

Will points/GC be separate for Junior/Senior in stage races?

wav1

chakattack wrote: »

Will points/GC be separate for Junior/Senior in stage races?

No.Same as previous.No change now except slight extension of points further down the placings.

wav1

morana wrote: »

I have and will still argue that a Camcorder on a tripod should be able to do the job. I was at a swords race where Robfowl was using an iphone with a few others and they sorted out the placings.
if we had all of the races covered by photo finish it would be great but theres lots of other solutions.

Unfortunately everybody doesn't agree with you,but I do.Its not rocket science just to take a few extra placings.Worst case scenario was presented to me yesterday where it would be all juns in the first 10 and you would have to go from 11th back to get the A3s.Thats not going to happen.By not going ahead with this its defo going to slow down the speed at which A3s go up,therefore creating the bottleneck that was supposed to be avoided.A backward step I believe.I think with a bit of extra work it was very do-able.but thats just me.

morana

I suppose CI need to get their finger out and purchase and train Photo finish equipment and operators. 1 for each province.

If you look at the IVCA Brendan Culleton uses a VCR in the boot with a camera on the tripod and him and Donal go thru the finish pictures to place everybody in the race.here is an example

Diarmuid

Were they still taking photos for 15th place?

wav1

There are mean and ways.All pointless now anyway seeing as the board have made the decision not to proceed.

morana

wav1 wrote: »

There are mean and ways.All pointless now anyway seeing as the board have made the decision not to proceed.

I wasnt aware of that decision and I havent missed a board meeting in years so I dont know where its coming from!

The Crunch

morana wrote: »

I suppose CI need to get their finger out and purchase and train Photo finish equipment and operators. 1 for each province.

If you look at the IVCA Brendan Culleton uses a VCR in the boot with a camera on the tripod and him and Donal go thru the finish pictures to place everybody in the race.here is an example

Anto wins sprint shocker! (Normally he wins solo).
All this talk of points and prizes. Everyone's very bullish before the first race, aren't they?!
Seriously, there should be photo equipment in every province at a minimum.
I think Frank Gibson was training up Ronnie Brannigan during last season so am I right in thinking there'll be two sets in action in Leinster this year? Who looks after it in the other provinces normally?

fixie fox

morana wrote: »

I have and will still argue that a Camcorder on a tripod should be able to do the job. I was at a swords race where Robfowl was using an iphone with a few others and they sorted out the placings.
if we had all of the races covered by photo finish it would be great but theres lots of other solutions.

Or an iPad with something like VideoPix app which slows the action right down.

wav1

morana wrote: »

I wasnt aware of that decision and I havent missed a board meeting in years so I dont know where its coming from!

Dont know Anto,but it came to me directly from the board after I requested clarity on it coming in to season.I think both you and I were under the same impression as to the way things were going to work,but it appears that its not the case now.Will send you what I got.

The Crunch

fixie fox wrote: »

Or an iPad with something like VideoPix app which slows the action right down.

CI supplied frame numbers would be a great help, too, wouldn't they?

wav1

The Crunch wrote: »

CI supplied frame numbers would be a great help, too, wouldn't they?

The AGM shot that one down on me at the AGM in 2011.The double numbers was the compromise,but frame numbers would be brilliant.They felt they wouldn't last the season,but its the way to go.

Plastik

The Crunch wrote: »

Anto wins sprint shocker! (Normally he wins solo).

Pfft, he didn't beat no.2 there in any of the first 4 or 5 IVCA races in 2012 :pac:

morana

Plastik wrote: »

Pfft, he didn't beat no.2 there in any of the first 4 or 5 IVCA races in 2012 :pac:

No he is good alrite...but I dont think I did any races in 2012:pac:

Plastik

Have I just been touché'd?!