4G interference and Saorview

Extinction

Reading through this article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/9861992/Race-to-avoid-television-blackout-from-4G-interference.html I see that Ofcom estimates up to 2.3 million households will be affected by 4G interference in the UK and 40,000 could permanently lose their Freeview signal.

Are there any figures available detailing how many households will be affected in Ireland?

The Cush

Extinction wrote: »

Are there any figures available detailing how many households will be affected in Ireland?

Haven't seen any official figures. A working group has been setup within the Dept of Communications to look at the issue.

Antenna

I see Aldi Ireland has/had a '48 Element Digital TV Aerial' (for sale from last Thursday 11 July) which it claims "Removes interference caused by 4G mobile networks' . The use of the words 'interference caused' rather than say 'interference which may be caused' implies that there are already actual Saorview 4G reception problems in this country??


Week_28_IE_Leaflet.pdf

48 Element Digital
TV Aerial
Comes complete with all the
cables and fixings you’ll need.
• Suitable for outdoor
or loft installation
• Removes interference caused
by 4G mobile networks
• High sensitivity for all signal
strength areas
€29.99

https://www.aldi.ie/en/specialbuys/thursday-specialbuys-11th-july/products-detail-page/ps/p/48-element-digital-tv-aerial/

excollier

How does it do that, this "digital" tv aerial?

Peter Rhea

Antenna wrote: »

. . . The use of the words 'interference caused' rather than say 'interference which may be caused' implies that there are already actual Saorview 4G reception problems in this country??

It doesn't imply anything beyond that the aerial has its frequency response limited in some way. They're only trying to sell the things, not educate consumers in any way.

watty

Antenna wrote: »

I see Aldi Ireland has/had a '48 Element Digital TV Aerial' (

a) It's 11 or 12, maybe 12 Element.
b) It's Analogue. Digital Aerials don't exist. Never will.

An aerial on its own can't filter enough.

St Senan

Its 1 of them Phillex type cheap crap aerials that shops were flogging to death during the Saorview "Gold Rush" build up. http://www.philex.com/assets/images/products/875-1-large.jpg I wouldn't hang me dog leads on it let alone mount it on a chimney.

winston_1

Extinction wrote: »

Reading through this article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/9861992/Race-to-avoid-television-blackout-from-4G-interference.html I see that Ofcom estimates up to 2.3 million households will be affected by 4G interference in the UK and 40,000 could permanently lose their Freeview signal.

Are there any figures available detailing how many households will be affected in Ireland?

That is crap. Don't believe anything that hacks write. They no nothing about RF. Ofcom have done tests and very few people are likely to be affected.

Play To Kill

winston_1 wrote: »

That is crap. Don't believe anything that hacks write. They no nothing about RF. Ofcom have done tests and very few people are likely to be affected.

Ofcom have revised their figures significantly downwards since their original estimate of 2.3 million households being affected. Their latest estimate is 90,000 and the trials initiated in various parts of the UK this year would suggest even less I think. Most problems seemed to have been caused by poor installations and un necessary use of masthead amps.

kgarvey

I cant wait for 4g. Even if it does effect my freeview channels

watty

It will NEVER give broadband, it will be only a little bit better than 3G and it will be more expensive.

It's for well paid roadwarriors that need "on the go" access, not for people sitting at home. Look at German prices.

Ofcom have revised their figures significantly downwards since their original estimate of 2.3 million households being affected. Their latest estimate is 90,000

Ofcom don't care and want rid of DTT. The figures are political and not measured properly. The real figure will NEVER be published or even known as:
1) People will have no idea why reception is erratic.
2) People will take out Sky or Virgin subs.
3) Ofcom (and Comreg) almost ignore complaints and the "average person" will never know there even is someone to complain to.

watty

Peter Rhea wrote: »

It doesn't imply anything beyond that the aerial has its frequency response limited in some way. They're only trying to sell the things, not educate consumers in any way.

All aerials have a quite limited frequency response unless they are Discone, Bicubic or Log periodic (and large, you see interesting ones on large American Embassy roofs).

Play To Kill

watty wrote: »

Ofcom don't care and want rid of DTT. The figures are political and not measured properly. The real figure will NEVER be published or even known as:
1) People will have no idea why reception is erratic.
2) People will take out Sky or Virgin subs.
3) Ofcom (and Comreg) almost ignore complaints and the "average person" will never know there even is someone to complain to.

1) People in the UK who are likely to be affected will be contacted through the post by at800 so they will be aware why their reception is eractic.

2) There is an notable increase where I am with people who are disconnecting from both Sky and Virgin and having an aerial installed for freeview, they are then switching phone and broadband providers to BT to avail of the offer for free BT sports for next season by using a BT box with their freeview aerial.

3) As with answer 1 above, people are being contacted by post and are aware of who to complain to. They will also be supplied with filters free of charge if their reception is affected by 4g.

watty

No, only some people will be contacted by post. You are confusing the trial /test pilots.

Filters will also not always solve the issue. They are only for the Base Station transmission.

There is also an issue of the transmitter in the 4G device. It will leak into cables totally disrupting cable channels and overloading some DTT boxes/TVs.

There may eventually be a lot of Femto cells too.

This is part of giving priority to Mobile operators as they generate the most licence revenue and making all other services 2nd class.

Play To Kill

watty wrote: »

No, only some people will be contacted by post. You are confusing the trial /test pilots.

As I said, those who are likely to be affected will be contacted by post, obviously thats not all people. They are receiving postcards informing of what is happening. It's not just for the trial period either, they are being informed of the 4g roll out over the coming months. It has nothing to do with the trials.

https://at800.tv/guide/received-a-postcard-from-at800/

watty

Will people remember a year later or take notice?

It's window dressing. The plan to sell off was based on DTT being SD only and Government greed.
Mobile has plenty of misused spectrum between 880MHz and 2200MHz and will likely be getting more at 2300 & 2500-2600 MHz.

Short sighted policy that will cripple DTT competitiveness for all time.

Play To Kill

They don't need to remember a year later, those who may be affected will be informed shortly before 4g is rolled out in their area and corrective measures can be taken then. Any future install that is done by a professional will take account for any likely interference. The RDI are also looking for experienced members to provide services for 4G LTE Audit and Quality Control work. It's all fairly well covered from all angles on this side of the water but I would expect it to be a shambolic disaster in Ireland just like the roll out of saorview was.

ISAA

Guidelines for Installers, 4G and TV Issues, Comreg.
official from comreg www.isaa.tv

The Cush

ISAA wrote: »

Guidelines for Installers, 4G and TV Issues, Comreg.
official from comreg www.isaa.tv

The document is from the Dept of Communications, compiled by Staff Engineer Rory Hinchy. Probably from the internal Departmental working group on 4g interference.

Dept of Communications - 4g and TV http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Digital+Television/4G+and+TV/
Dept of Communications - 4g and TV FAQ http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Frequently+Asked+Questions/4G+Signal+and+TV+Reception+FAQs.htm

Comreg LTE interference FAQ http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/what_is_radio_frequency_%28rf%29_overload_and_how_might_it_impact_me.19.226.LE.asp

watty

Comreg wants to abrogate their responsibility and have RTE & ISAA sort out the mess.

See how much luck they would have with that if it was the 800MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz or 2100MHz mobile operators suffering Interference. 2300 and 2500-2600 Bands also likely to be sold to Mobile.

Greedy Government & Comreg. Also Mobile LTE on 800MHz will not be Broadband. That is a lie. Most of the LTE speeds bandied about are a lie too.

How many people get 21Mbps on Three's 3G/HSPA NBS? List on back of a postage stamp.

The Consumer is just regarded as Cattle to be milked in this country. Will anyone go to jail for the Anglo Irish Bank, or the careless Financial Regulation or the waste of Public money on NBS or lack of proper Communications Regulation over the last 20 years?

Rippy

The advice that masthead amplifiers are usually un-needed becausd the network has been planned without the use of amplifiers is nonsense .
It is true that there are many unneeded amps out there and like all reputable installers we remove them when we can and only install them when absolutely necessary.
However we often come across cases where the only way to get acceptable margin ( especially if the signal is split to several points) is to use an amp .

The alternative of Saorsat is a poor substitute, needing a large ( 90cm +) dish , a seperate receiver evdn with recent Tvs, and carries no TV3 or 3e.
At a totally unscientific guesstimate I would estimate 30 % of aerial installs in my South Cork region need some sort of amplification .