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4G interference and Saorview

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,969 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Extinction wrote: »
    Are there any figures available detailing how many households will be affected in Ireland?

    Haven't seen any official figures. A working group has been setup within the Dept of Communications to look at the issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Antenna


    I see Aldi Ireland has/had a '48 Element Digital TV Aerial' (for sale from last Thursday 11 July) which it claims "Removes interference caused by 4G mobile networks' . The use of the words 'interference caused' rather than say 'interference which may be caused' implies that there are already actual Saorview 4G reception problems in this country??


    Week_28_IE_Leaflet.pdf
    48 Element Digital
    TV Aerial
    Comes complete with all the
    cables and fixings you’ll need.
    • Suitable for outdoor
    or loft installation
    • Removes interference caused
    by 4G mobile networks
    • High sensitivity for all signal
    strength areas
    €29.99

    https://www.aldi.ie/en/specialbuys/thursday-specialbuys-11th-july/products-detail-page/ps/p/48-element-digital-tv-aerial/

    262723.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭excollier


    How does it do that, this "digital" tv aerial?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    Antenna wrote: »
    . . . The use of the words 'interference caused' rather than say 'interference which may be caused' implies that there are already actual Saorview 4G reception problems in this country??

    It doesn't imply anything beyond that the aerial has its frequency response limited in some way. They're only trying to sell the things, not educate consumers in any way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,445 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Antenna wrote: »
    I see Aldi Ireland has/had a '48 Element Digital TV Aerial' (


    a) It's 11 or 12, maybe 12 Element.
    b) It's Analogue. Digital Aerials don't exist. Never will.

    An aerial on its own can't filter enough.


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  • Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,585 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    Its 1 of them Phillex type cheap crap aerials that shops were flogging to death during the Saorview "Gold Rush" build up. http://www.philex.com/assets/images/products/875-1-large.jpg I wouldn't hang me dog leads on it let alone mount it on a chimney.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭winston_1


    Extinction wrote: »
    Reading through this article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/9861992/Race-to-avoid-television-blackout-from-4G-interference.html I see that Ofcom estimates up to 2.3 million households will be affected by 4G interference in the UK and 40,000 could permanently lose their Freeview signal.

    Are there any figures available detailing how many households will be affected in Ireland?

    That is crap. Don't believe anything that hacks write. They no nothing about RF. Ofcom have done tests and very few people are likely to be affected.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    winston_1 wrote: »
    That is crap. Don't believe anything that hacks write. They no nothing about RF. Ofcom have done tests and very few people are likely to be affected.

    Ofcom have revised their figures significantly downwards since their original estimate of 2.3 million households being affected. Their latest estimate is 90,000 and the trials initiated in various parts of the UK this year would suggest even less I think. Most problems seemed to have been caused by poor installations and un necessary use of masthead amps.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭kgarvey


    I cant wait for 4g. Even if it does effect my freeview channels


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,445 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It will NEVER give broadband, it will be only a little bit better than 3G and it will be more expensive.

    It's for well paid roadwarriors that need "on the go" access, not for people sitting at home. Look at German prices.
    Ofcom have revised their figures significantly downwards since their original estimate of 2.3 million households being affected. Their latest estimate is 90,000
    Ofcom don't care and want rid of DTT. The figures are political and not measured properly. The real figure will NEVER be published or even known as:
    1) People will have no idea why reception is erratic.
    2) People will take out Sky or Virgin subs.
    3) Ofcom (and Comreg) almost ignore complaints and the "average person" will never know there even is someone to complain to.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,445 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    It doesn't imply anything beyond that the aerial has its frequency response limited in some way. They're only trying to sell the things, not educate consumers in any way.

    All aerials have a quite limited frequency response unless they are Discone, Bicubic or Log periodic (and large, you see interesting ones on large American Embassy roofs).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    watty wrote: »
    Ofcom don't care and want rid of DTT. The figures are political and not measured properly. The real figure will NEVER be published or even known as:
    1) People will have no idea why reception is erratic.
    2) People will take out Sky or Virgin subs.
    3) Ofcom (and Comreg) almost ignore complaints and the "average person" will never know there even is someone to complain to.

    1) People in the UK who are likely to be affected will be contacted through the post by at800 so they will be aware why their reception is eractic.

    2) There is an notable increase where I am with people who are disconnecting from both Sky and Virgin and having an aerial installed for freeview, they are then switching phone and broadband providers to BT to avail of the offer for free BT sports for next season by using a BT box with their freeview aerial.

    3) As with answer 1 above, people are being contacted by post and are aware of who to complain to. They will also be supplied with filters free of charge if their reception is affected by 4g.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,445 ✭✭✭✭watty


    No, only some people will be contacted by post. You are confusing the trial /test pilots.

    Filters will also not always solve the issue. They are only for the Base Station transmission.

    There is also an issue of the transmitter in the 4G device. It will leak into cables totally disrupting cable channels and overloading some DTT boxes/TVs.

    There may eventually be a lot of Femto cells too.

    This is part of giving priority to Mobile operators as they generate the most licence revenue and making all other services 2nd class.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    watty wrote: »
    No, only some people will be contacted by post. You are confusing the trial /test pilots.

    As I said, those who are likely to be affected will be contacted by post, obviously thats not all people. They are receiving postcards informing of what is happening. It's not just for the trial period either, they are being informed of the 4g roll out over the coming months. It has nothing to do with the trials.

    https://at800.tv/guide/received-a-postcard-from-at800/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,445 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Will people remember a year later or take notice?

    It's window dressing. The plan to sell off was based on DTT being SD only and Government greed.
    Mobile has plenty of misused spectrum between 880MHz and 2200MHz and will likely be getting more at 2300 & 2500-2600 MHz.

    Short sighted policy that will cripple DTT competitiveness for all time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    They don't need to remember a year later, those who may be affected will be informed shortly before 4g is rolled out in their area and corrective measures can be taken then. Any future install that is done by a professional will take account for any likely interference. The RDI are also looking for experienced members to provide services for 4G LTE Audit and Quality Control work. It's all fairly well covered from all angles on this side of the water but I would expect it to be a shambolic disaster in Ireland just like the roll out of saorview was.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 339 ✭✭ISAA


    Guidelines for Installers, 4G and TV Issues, Comreg.
    official from comreg
    www.isaa.tv


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,969 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    ISAA wrote: »
    Guidelines for Installers, 4G and TV Issues, Comreg.
    official from comreg
    www.isaa.tv

    The document is from the Dept of Communications, compiled by Staff Engineer Rory Hinchy. Probably from the internal Departmental working group on 4g interference.

    Dept of Communications - 4g and TV http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Digital+Television/4G+and+TV/
    Dept of Communications - 4g and TV FAQ http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Frequently+Asked+Questions/4G+Signal+and+TV+Reception+FAQs.htm

    Comreg LTE interference FAQ http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/what_is_radio_frequency_%28rf%29_overload_and_how_might_it_impact_me.19.226.LE.asp


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,445 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Comreg wants to abrogate their responsibility and have RTE & ISAA sort out the mess.

    See how much luck they would have with that if it was the 800MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz or 2100MHz mobile operators suffering Interference. 2300 and 2500-2600 Bands also likely to be sold to Mobile.

    Greedy Government & Comreg. Also Mobile LTE on 800MHz will not be Broadband. That is a lie. Most of the LTE speeds bandied about are a lie too.

    How many people get 21Mbps on Three's 3G/HSPA NBS? List on back of a postage stamp.

    The Consumer is just regarded as Cattle to be milked in this country. Will anyone go to jail for the Anglo Irish Bank, or the careless Financial Regulation or the waste of Public money on NBS or lack of proper Communications Regulation over the last 20 years?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Rippy


    The advice that masthead amplifiers are usually un-needed becausd the network has been planned without the use of amplifiers is nonsense .
    It is true that there are many unneeded amps out there and like all reputable installers we remove them when we can and only install them when absolutely necessary.
    However we often come across cases where the only way to get acceptable margin ( especially if the signal is split to several points) is to use an amp .

    The alternative of Saorsat is a poor substitute, needing a large ( 90cm +) dish , a seperate receiver evdn with recent Tvs, and carries no TV3 or 3e.
    At a totally unscientific guesstimate I would estimate 30 % of aerial installs in my South Cork region need some sort of amplification .


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