Passport application and headwear

Chemical Burn

I was recently filling out my passport application form and I appalled to read that an Irish Native can be refused for his passport application if his / her head is slightly askew, or the lighting is bad or if he / sheis wearing a baseball cap, but Muslims women and Sikh men can wear a head scarf or turbin. Is this not religious discrimination? I thought Ireland was by law a secular country?

The whole reason of the having a full frontal view of the person is for security reasons, yet, a Muslim / Sikh can flout this rule. Does this not nullify the whole reason behind it and defeat the purpose ? What's to stop me from saying that I am a Sikh or invent my own religion in which I can cover my whole head?

Sorry if this has been done before, fell free to lock / merge, mods.

Nodin

The Turban doesn't cover the face, neither does a head scarf.

This is the second forum you've started this thread in. Any reason?

robindch

Chemical Burn wrote: »

What's to stop me from saying that I am a Sikh or invent my own religion in which I can cover my whole head?

That's old, er, hat:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523

Peregrinus

Chemical Burn wrote: »

I was recently filling out my passport application form and I appalled to read that an Irish Native can be refused for his passport application if his / her head is slightly askew, or the lighting is bad or if he / sheis wearing a baseball cap, but Muslims women and Sikh men can wear a head scarf or turbin.

You do realise that Irish natives can be Muslim women and Sikh men, don't you?

Chemical Burn wrote: »

Is this not religious discrimination? I thought Ireland was by law a secular country?

You thought wrongly. There is no law which says that Ireland is a secular country. And, even if there were, having a secular state does not mean that you have to have secular citizens. A secular state can properly recognise that its citizens have diverse religious beliefs, and can (and should) accommodate those religious beliefs where they don't conflice with other rights or values.

I can think of a lot of instances in which the Irish state accommodates religious beliefs in ways which might offend against the principle that the state should be secular. Recognising that some citizens have religious beliefs which lead them to wear head coverings that do not obscure their faces, I have to say, isn't one of them. Get over it.

Dave!

This is an outrage

Doctor Strange

Has anyone tried the pasta strainer case here?

MrPudding

Chemical Burn wrote: »

I was recently filling out my passport application form and I appalled to read that an Irish Native can be refused for his passport application if his / her head is slightly askew, or the lighting is bad or if he / sheis wearing a baseball cap, but Muslims women and Sikh men can wear a head scarf or turbin. Is this not religious discrimination? I thought Ireland was by law a secular country?

The whole reason of the having a full frontal view of the person is for security reasons, yet, a Muslim / Sikh can flout this rule. Does this not nullify the whole reason behind it and defeat the purpose ? What's to stop me from saying that I am a Sikh or invent my own religion in which I can cover my whole head?

Sorry if this has been done before, fell free to lock / merge, mods.

Is wearing a baseball cap a requirement of a religion?

MrP

Zombrex

Couldn't give a toss about the passport photo.

What would be a concern if they introduced exceptions to things like helmets and seat belts.

kylith

As long as all them Muhammadans have to take off their glasses like I do then I couldn't give less of a hang about what's on their heads. If I have to look all squinty in my passport photo so should everyone else.

kiffer

Zombrex wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss about the passport photo.

What would be a concern if they introduced exceptions to things like helmets and seat belts.

Sikhs are exempt from wearing motorcycle helmets, aren't they?

Mark Hamill

I kinda agree with Chemical Burn. That the rather extreme requirements for passport photos are relaxed for religious reasons is call for concern, although maybe more in terms of the thinking behind the requirements themselves. Why does the requirement to see the top of the head disappear if someone is wearing religious headgear? Head scarves change the appearance of a face, significantly more than the likes of a hairband (which are also not allowed):

kylith

I assume that it's because religious people will be wearing their headwear at the airport, so having them hijab-less in the photo would be unworkable because it would be too time consuming for them to remove and redon their hijab in queues at the airport.

Mark Hamill

kylith wrote: »

I assume that it's because religious people will be wearing their headwear at the airport, so having them hijab-less in the photo would be unworkable because it would be too time consuming for them to remove and redon their hijab in queues at the airport.

Since when does airport security care about delaying people at airports?

kylith

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Since when does airport security care about delaying people at airports?

Fair point

eyescreamcone

Anyway, religious people are so moral and law abiding, they're unlikely to break any laws regarding airport or in flight security. Thus they should be entitled to special dispensation.

Bollix - get your hat off like the rest of us!

car.kar

You could always try wearing a pasta strainer..?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523

magicbastarder

Zombrex wrote: »

What would be a concern if they introduced exceptions to things like helmets and seat belts.

do they have seat belts in passport photo booths?

Standman

How appalling. I'm appalled also.

iba

kylith wrote: »

As long as all them Muhammadans have to take off their glasses like I do then I couldn't give less of a hang about what's on their heads. If I have to look all squinty in my passport photo so should everyone else.

If you are talking about reading glasses and not sunglasses, they are allowed. See photo 5d in the sheet of photos that accompany the passport application form.

When one is taught to examine passports or other photographic id, one learns about eyes, eye colour, nose, ears, tatoos, scars and mouth etc because these are difficult to change teh appearnce of. One does not learn about hair which is easy to change. So as long as the head scarf or sikh's headgear is not covering the aformentioned features, it ok.

kylith

iba wrote: »

If you are talking about reading glasses and not sunglasses, they are allowed. See photo 5d in the sheet of photos that accompany the passport application form.

When one is taught to examine passports or other photographic id, one learns about eyes, eye colour, nose, ears, tatoos, scars and mouth etc because these are difficult to change teh appearnce of. One does not learn about hair which is easy to change. So as long as the head scarf or sikh's headgear is not covering the aformentioned features, it ok.

Seeing glasses, not sunglasses. They still made me take them off though, and the same with my mother, I think. I don't think they're too bothered about eye colour any more; all the new passport photos are in black and white.

iba

kylith wrote: »

Seeing glasses, not sunglasses. They still made me take them off though, and the same with my mother, I think. I don't think they're too bothered about eye colour any more; all the new passport photos are in black and white.

Well Ive got no idea why you were made take off seeing glasses as they are 100% allowed.

Mark Hamill

iba wrote: »

If you are talking about reading glasses and not sunglasses, they are allowed. See photo 5d in the sheet of photos that accompany the passport application form.

When one is taught to examine passports or other photographic id, one learns about eyes, eye colour, nose, ears, tatoos, scars and mouth etc because these are difficult to change teh appearnce of. One does not learn about hair which is easy to change. So as long as the head scarf or sikh's headgear is not covering the aformentioned features, it ok.

Why are hair bands disallowed then?

Zombrex

kiffer wrote: »

Sikhs are exempt from wearing motorcycle helmets, aren't they?

In Ireland?

Hotblack Desiato

Zombrex wrote: »

In Ireland?

Not in Ireland, but in the UK, yes.

...

'Seeing glasses' wtf? If one's sunglasses aren't for seeing through, they must be a very dark tint indeed

kylith

ninja900 wrote: »

'Seeing glasses' wtf? If one's sunglasses aren't for seeing through, they must be a very dark tint indeed

They surely would be. Of course I meant 'glasses for seeing with'. Not that I'm blind without the auld specs, but the persistent headaches do make it annoying.

Geomy

I hope I'm not going off topic,some Persian women look fantastic with headwear.
They spend a lot of money on eye makeup for a religion who make their women wear headwear,some of those women have the most seductive eyes

robindch

Geomy wrote: »

some of those women have the most seductive eyes

Not that you'd get the chance to see anything else.

Rob Humanoid

Yeah, I kinda' agree with Mr. Burn... The passport shot should be the same for everyone. Religion should have nothing to do with it imo.