interesting alternate timeline from startrek enterprise

Tzar Chasm

was watching star trek enterprise today, they had a 2 partner where they went back in time to sn alternate 1944, the germans had taken the esat coast of america and were on the verge of total victotry.

the point of divergance according to the show was in 1916 when someone shot lennin in Switzerland

they claim that this preve ted bolshevisim and hence hitler never considered Russia a threat.

whilst this may be plausible within tne bounds of fluff tv theories, how realistic could this time line be?

I se a few major holes in tne theory

Would WW1 have finished the same way without the withdrawal of Russia after the revolution

would germany have still have been able to reconstruct after such aprotracted two front battle

would the NSDAP still have risen to power without the counter foil of a communist mennace

had hitler risen to power wouldn't he still want lebensraum in the east

even without a war in the east how could germany conquer england and america without any realistic navy

what would happen in the pacific, would imperial japan still rise and if so would they attack Russia early on or attempt to form an alliance

would they have struck at pearl harbouror just left the germans to destroy america

Skylinehead

I'd imagine the Pacific situation would be essentially unchanged, the Russians didn't have that big an influence on the theatre.

The Germans did have a plan to build a navy, maybe they would have finished it. It's all hypothetical after all.

silverharp

tbh I doubt if Germany France and Britain could have invaded the US if they had teamed up

Tzar Chasm

interesting point, altho if germany had conquered england early how many of their ships could they have captured.

I wouldn't see the pacific playing out the same way at all tho, with a diminished america japan has no need to attack pearl hsrbour and could concentrate on australia, who would be alone without the commonwealth or usa


but i'm still hung up on the rise of the nazi party without a communist threat

Skylinehead

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

interesting point, altho if germany had conquered england early how many of their ships could they have captured.

I wouldn't see the pacific playing out the same way at all tho, with a diminished america japan has no need to attack pearl hsrbour and could concentrate on australia, who would be alone without the commonwealth or usa


but i'm still hung up on the rise of the nazi party without a communist threat

America wouldn't be diminished, they'd be in the same state. No way would Germany have invaded before Pearl Harbour.

TerrorFirmer

Hard to say. Bit confused by the timeline. If it was that Lenin was assassinated but the war remained otherwise unchanged, without being able to accurately predict Russias development, it's a tough one - certainly, Germany would have still lost the war, yet equally, the same circumstances would have bred the same parties as that of the NSDAP. Leading to WW2, regardless of how successful Germany was, or could have been, actual occupation of the USA is completely un realistic. Germany could have easily beaten the UK in a war of attrition if Barbarossa had no reason to have occurred, but the USA would have been a different matter altogether. I would imagine that at best, a negotiated peace in Germany's favor. I would equally imagine that in such a scenario, the USA entering a war with Japan and subsequent German involvement would have yielded an axis victory. Without the UK, there is no feasible way the USA could have waged effective war on Germany. It would have become another war of attrition yet I can't see any scenario in which any axis power could have actually assaulted and occupied the USA, regardless of who came out top overall. I think it would have ended in the USA having to reluctantly accept German domination of Europe and recognize limited Japanese power in the pacific. Can't imagine any scenario in which America ceased to be a formidable military foe, even in negotiated defeat.

Victor

I don't think I agree with the scenario. With less internal turmoil, Russia would have ended up staying in the war to the end, Germany and/or Austria-Hungary would have been defeated quicker and actually invaded. 'Extra' upset at the old order, Germany could easily have been the hub of world socialism, not Russia. The absence of forced collectivisation would have meant no Ukrainian famine or purges and, presumably, a stronger 'Russia'.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

even without a war in the east how could germany conquer england and america without any realistic navy

If Germany was secure on the European mainland, resources could have been given over to attacking Britain that in the real world were being moved to the Eastern Front - fewer tanks and attack aircraft, more bombers and submarines. The British might come to a humble peace with Germany and hand over a big chunk (or all) of the Royal Navy. The German, French and British navies are then enough to create a convoy system to Canada, Bermuda and the Bahamas.