Scrum put in- it's supposed to straight isn't it

Kenny2012

Isn't the put in to a scrum supposed to be straight ?
Never mind a put in where you the scrum-half aims at his own front row I have seen them go straight in to the 2nd row and the ref doing nothing.
It's just so blindlingly blatent now shouldn't something be done about it.

pickarooney

They should sort this crap out and forget the couch, touch engage bull**** if they really want the scrum to ever be a competitive spectacle again.

mfceiling

Yeah it's supposed to.

Some of the scrum halfs almost throw it at the feet of the number 8.

Podge_irl

Hi Brian.

pappyodaniel

pickarooney wrote: »

They should sort this crap out and forget the couch, touch engage bull**** if they really want the scrum to ever be a competitive spectacle again.

You're right, a couch has no business being on a rugby field.

Losty Dublin

pickarooney wrote: »

They should sort this crap out and forget the couch, touch engage bull**** if they really want the scrum to ever be a competitive spectacle again.

The call sequence is there for safety reasons after years of dangerous neck and spinal injuries besetting players worldwide. The IRB had no choice but to act and to move away from the old system of away we go. Given the choice between reset scrums or an ambulance crew, neck brace and backboard I know what I'd rather see go down on the field.

Clareman

The put in is supposed to be straight, but scrum halves started spinning the ball in, the ball would be straight going in but would go straight to their team. IMVHO, a line out throw is policed strictly so should scrum put ins.

Losty Dublin

Clareman wrote: »

The put in is supposed to be straight, but scrum halves started spinning the ball in, the ball would be straight going in but would go straight to their team. IMVHO, a line out throw is policed strictly so should scrum put ins.

Rule of thumb from ARLB meetings is that generally once the ball makes contact with the ground in line with it's width at the put in, it's fine. The reality is somewhat different

19543261

[What perplexes me is] why is it insisted it remains in the rules if every ref is insistent on not following it.

They should add some more wacky "rules" like that, it'll be great.

pickarooney

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The call sequence is there for safety reasons after years of dangerous neck and spinal injuries besetting players worldwide. The IRB had no choice but to act and to move away from the old system of away we go. Given the choice between reset scrums or an ambulance crew, neck brace and backboard I know what I'd rather see go down on the field.

That was after they started with this mickey mouse big hit business though. What was wrong with the packs lining up in the 'engaged' position and pushing on the ref's signal?

BBDBB

The "hit" has become the problem and thus the focus of the refs attention

the binds on either side are second priority, one of which the ref cannot see

the straight push is teh third

popping up comes next

straight put ins are a low low loooooooooooooooow priority to most refs it seems

Risteard

Notice how tonight in the Munster game, the ref forced to teams to basically be near touching each other, thereby reducing the hit. Don't think there was one collapse after he made them come closer together. Should start with that and then enforce the straight put in. Make it a real contest again.

I remember reading a report done up by former players specifically for the IRB and their no. 1 recommendation for the scrum was to eliminate the hit. Their argument that it was near impossible for a scrum to be 'square and stationary' given the mass of the packs involved hitting at such speed.

Risteard

Clareman wrote: »

The put in is supposed to be straight, but scrum halves started spinning the ball in, the ball would be straight going in but would go straight to their team. IMVHO, a line out throw is policed strictly so should scrum put ins.

One way to counter act this would be to make it so that the scrum half has to throw or roll the ball in with each point of the ball facing the ends of the pitch. A lot harder to try and spin it that way and it would be pretty obvious.

tolosenc

BBDBB wrote: »

The "hit" has become the problem and thus the focus of the refs attention

the binds on either side are second priority, one of which the ref cannot see

the straight push is teh third

popping up comes next

straight put ins are a low low loooooooooooooooow priority to most refs it seems

Basically, once the scrum doesn't collapse, it's basically "Oh goodie!" and the ref's don't really pay attention.

Risteard wrote: »

Notice how tonight in the Munster game, the ref forced to teams to basically be near touching each other, thereby reducing the hit. Don't think there was one collapse after he made them come closer together. Should start with that and then enforce the straight put in. Make it a real contest again.

I remember reading a report done up by former players specifically for the IRB and their no. 1 recommendation for the scrum was to eliminate the hit. Their argument that it was near impossible for a scrum to be 'square and stationary' given the mass of the packs involved hitting at such speed.

IMO, I'd have the front rows bind without a hit, then tell the other 10 players to crouch, pause, engage.

davegrohl48

tolosenc wrote: »

IMO, I'd have the front rows bind without a hit, then tell the other 10 players to crouch, pause, engage.

I'v always wondered why they don't go with that idea. That would reduce the amount of messy scrums.

The ref missed a funny one in Ireland - Wales game. Murray put the ball in and hit a leg and came straight back into his hands. Then he just put it in again. Ref was on the other side of the scrum.

pickarooney

davegrohl48 wrote: »

The ref missed a funny one in Ireland - Wales game. Murray put the ball in and hit a leg and came straight back into his hands. Then he just put it in again. Ref was on the other side of the scrum.

What's the actual ruling there?

Losty Dublin

pickarooney wrote: »

That was after they started with this mickey mouse big hit business though. What was wrong with the packs lining up in the 'engaged' position and pushing on the ref's signal?

The Laws of the game evolve over the years and for many reasons; safety being the primary one. Over time, it has been found that injuries have been constantly occurring in the scrummage, especially as the game as moved on. These range from minor knocks to opportunities to gouge, kick and punch opposing players to chronic neck and spinal injuries to even catastrophic spinal injuries.

On this basis the IRB has to act to make the scrum safer as players, coaches and referees of all levels are under increasing scrutiny as to how the game is played. As the scrum has resulted in the most problems, it's the one which has the most focus going on. To see this better, you need to see how the scrum has involved.

The start of this video shows how a scrum works today. Note the control of engagement, the level positions of the players and how the scrum moves. While Red are being dominated here, it's done with a certain amount of control on their part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EqagLw03ug

Not sure of the exact date of this but you can see that it's fairly tight but with somewhat looser and with weaker players than today's elite/pros.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtdfE_aL0cI

Lastly, this is what typical of the chaos of the old fashioned scrum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuppHoJ7fLg

While the new scrum is by no means perfect, it's clear here just how much safer the current arrangements are compared to the old ones. The call sequence simply has to be there if only to make sure that everybody is at the races and there is some control of what takes place at scrum time. For what it's worth, the new calls are working very well at youths and junior level across the country.

wp_rathead

19543261 wrote: »

[What perplexes me is] why is it insisted it remains in the rules if every ref is insistent on not following it.

They should add some more wacky "rules" like that, it'll be great.

there are no "rules" in rugby..
..there are "laws" :P

(sorry: just venting from the match)