Cost of enforcing a PRTB determination in circuit court

Miguel_Sanchez

I recently had a PRTB determination made in my favour. The landlord has not paid the money owed and has ignored my attempt at contacting them via email etc.

I was wondering does anyone know how much it would cost to bring this to the circuit court to have the determination enforced?

ResearchWill

Miguel_Sanchez wrote: »

I recently had a PRTB determination made in my favour. The landlord has not paid the money owed and has ignored my attempt at contacting them via email etc.

I was wondering does anyone know how much it would cost to bring this to the circuit court to have the determination enforced?

I may be wrong but I thought the PRTB do that for you.

Miguel_Sanchez

ResearchWill wrote: »

I may be wrong but I thought the PRTB do that for you.

Well they said they 'can' apply for a circuit court order so I just wanted to check how much it would be in case they won't or if there's going to be a massive delay.

Would the circuit court direct the landlord to pay whatever legal costs I'd incurred too?

Ken.

The other party has not complied with the PRTB’s Determination Order. What can I do? TOP Where the terms of a Determination Order have not been complied with within the specified timeframe, a party can opt to enforce their own Determination Order through the Circuit Court under Section 124 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. Alternatively a party can apply to the PRTB to initiate enforcement proceedings against the other party. Such proceedings can involve Court proceedings against a non-compliant party, which could result in a criminal conviction being secured against them by the PRTB. All judgements are registered and thus are likely to affect the person’s credit rating, employment prospects and visas for foreign travel.

https://www.prtb.ie/faq.aspx#Q107

Miguel_Sanchez

Thanks for that ken.

Brings me back to my original question though: Does anyone know how much it would cost for me to bring it to the circuit court myself or what would be involved?

The PRTB process itself is quite slow and I don't think I count as a high priority case since the amount involved is less than 200 euro. But I do not want to let the matter drop on principle (and I could also do with that money!).

ThreeLineWhip

You would not have much change out of €500.

dermot_sheehan

Miguel_Sanchez wrote: »

Thanks for that ken.

Brings me back to my original question though: Does anyone know how much it would cost for me to bring it to the circuit court myself or what would be involved?

The PRTB process itself is quite slow and I don't think I count as a high priority case since the amount involved is less than 200 euro. But I do not want to let the matter drop on principle (and I could also do with that money!).

If you were to draft and move the proceedings yourself it would cost €60 stamp duty for the notice of motion +€15 for the grounding affidavit and €15 on the affidavit of service, plus sending a copy of everything to respondent by registereed post (around €5 I think):
http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/E2EC1E98DFE91E5C802576D9005EA990?opendocument&l=en

You can seek costs as part of your application and if the judge finds for you, you can ask for your outlay and tell the judge how much you've spent.

Miguel_Sanchez

Thanks guys. Appreciate that.

Hopefully the PRTB will do it for me or the landlord will cough up the cash before this has to go to court.

Kosseegan

Its only a tenner stamp duty to go in the District Court.

nuac

No point at all going to the Circuit COurt for €200. Doubtful even if a DC outing would be worthwhile. Scale costs on a €200 decree are minimal.

Leave it to PRTB

valleyoftheunos

No judge is going to be sympathetic to awarding Circuit Court Costs for an award of €200, infact costs would more likely go against you.

Follow up with the PRTB and leave it to them, thats their role. It could take a VERY long time however.

ResearchWill

nuac wrote: »

No point at all going to the Circuit COurt for €200. Doubtful even if a DC outing would be wothwhile. Scale costs on a €200 decree are minimal.

Leave it to PRTB

But my short reading of the Act seems to state that either the person or the PRTB must go to the Circuit Court, if you have no choice in jurisdiction then you can not be penalised for costs, the same issue arises with Defamation, even if you get only €500 award you must get Circuit Court Costs.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0124.html#sec124

valleyoftheunos

ResearchWill wrote: »

But my short reading of the Act seems to state that either the person or the PRTB must go to the Circuit Court, if you have no choice in jurisdiction then you can not be penalised for costs, the same issue arises with Defamation, even if you get only €500 award you must get Circuit Court Costs.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0124.html#sec124

Indeed, still though you're going feel silly asking the court to award thousands in costs for €200 aren't you? I wouldn't fancy it. I might expect the judge to question my motivation considering that the party costs would likely exceed the €200.

nuac

ResearchWill wrote: »

But my short reading of the Act seems to state that either the person or the PRTB must go to the Circuit Court, if you have no choice in jurisdiction then you can not be penalised for costs, the same issue arises with Defamation, even if you get only €500 award you must get Circuit Court Costs.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0124.html#sec124

I haven't checked the legislation, but I have seen the PRTB in the District Court enforcing an order

Kosseegan

nuac wrote: »

I haven't checked the legislation, but I have seen the PRTB in the District Court enforcing an order

What you have seen in the District Court will be a summons under Section 126 of the Act. The Court can measure costs because there is no scale in the District Court Rules.

If the Circuit Court makes an enforcement order, it will simply order costs, which will be taxed in default of agreement.

Kosseegan

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

No judge is going to be sympathetic to awarding Circuit Court Costs for an award of €200, infact costs would more likely go against you.

Follow up with the PRTB and leave it to them, thats their role. It could take a VERY long time however.

No judge is going to be sympathetic to a landlord who has not paid up. In any case all they will do is make an order for costs. It will be up to the County Registrar as to the amount.

Miguel_Sanchez

Thanks guys.

I've contacted the PRTB and will wait to see if they'll do it for us. They state however that they are not obligated to enforce orders themselves and make a call on each one as needed.

I fully expect it to be a long wait though, the landlord seems to have decided to merely ignore the order and is presumably hoping that we will let it go.

The landlord is mistaken. :mad:

olliehugs

Hi,

I sympathise with your position too. I have just received notice of adjudication in my favour for non-return of deposit. This whole thing has taken about eight months and the Landlord or agent didn't even show up to the hearing Now I have to wait another eight weeks (three for appeal and two to pay) before I can do anything cos I am pretty sure that they are not going to pay. Landlords complain that they get a raw deal from PRTB? So do the tenants because when it comes to "the little person" and small amounts of money (which are big to us) Landlords don't have to comply cos they know they wont get enforced.

My tenancy was transferred to RAS with the local authority so I still live in the property but they dont require a deposit. They, however, will continue to pay him the rent on my behalf so he doesn't care! If I should stop paying my rent to the local authority I will be evicted. Can I get a judgement order against the rent they are paying him? anyone know?

Ollie

punksanders

Miguel,

I find myself in the very same situation three years on from my initial complaint to the PRTB about retention of my deposit. I have a determination order of €1500 resting with the Enforcement Section to carry out enforcement.

Unfortunately, unlike other bodies such as the Revenue and the Courts Service itself, it doesn't have any mechanism for enforcement other than to file with the Circuit Court on our behalf and allow their appointing of a Sheriff or otherwise to recover the debt.

This was the subject of an RTE Prime Time special last year which you can probably still get on RTE Player. The PRTB were criticised for their inaction but explained as they do in their letter to the parties concerned that they are operating under 'strained resources' and that you are 'encouraged' to enforce the case yourself. In practice the only cases they were enforcing were those of serial offenders with 8-9 orders against them.

I would like to know if anyone on here has an experience of observing how these are handled in the Circuit Court. My expectation is that it would not go to a hearing and that an Order would be made by the Registrar, given that a binding ruling has already been made by an element of the Courts Service, the issue being with enforcement of that ruling rather than a revisit of the evidence put forward. Surely costs are awarded against landlords in all cases like this?

olliehugs

If anyone DOES manage to get enforcement/go to circuit court, could they please follow up with details on this thread? I am considering going to the media on this - it is not fair that PRTB make orders and then can't enforce them!! What is the point of the dispute process otherwise?

My landlord is a local businessman so maybe a little negative media attention might stir things up:D Failing that I do still live in the property, and there is quite a bit of furniture here that I don't need....must be worth about €500!! (If landlord doesn't like that, let HIM take ME to court....then costs are on him and I get my say!)

the world wonders

olliehugs wrote: »

[redacted]

I'm not sure which is a worse idea here, destroying furniture to get back at your landlord, or posting about it on the internet beforehand.

Landlords have the internet too you know -- here's a thread on Accommodation & Property where the landlord actually produced printouts of the tenant's boards posts as evidence

olliehugs

the world wonders wrote: »

I'm not sure which is a worse idea here, destroying furniture to get back at your landlord, or posting about it on the internet beforehand.

Landlords have the internet too you know -- here's a thread on Accommodation & Property where the landlord actually produced printouts of the tenant's boards posts as evidence

Lol I am well aware that Landlords have internet !! And for the record, I never said anything about destroying property!!! just wanted to be clear on that. I will shut up now!

ocy

Sorry for dragging up an old thread but just wondering how Opel fared in the end. I am nearly 14 months into a process and following an adjudication hearing and tribunal have a determination order for €2822. Now seeking enforcement

I have put a link to my story so far. My questions are did you go it alone/ use PRTB. If you went it alone, how much did it cost, did you get your money back.
Thanks in advance.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057151995