UK 600 mHz band DVB-T2 muxes.

Peter Rhea

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/600mhz-award/

Early days on this, but they seem keen to get it up & running asap, as the 600 mHz band could be snatched back in 2018, by existing services vacating the 700 mHz band.

The frequencies allocated to transmission sites receivable in ROI seem to cleared for the same ERP as the current PSB muxes, but with some directional restrictions towards ROI tx service areas.

What, if anything, will actually come to pass is another matter entirely.

Ronnie Raygun

I would think anyone likely to be interested would have had some kind of plan in place before this was "officially" announced.

DS thread mentions a joint BBC/Channel 4/Arqiva proposal: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/uhf-strategy/responses/BBC_Channel_4_Arqiva.pdf

winston_1

Peter Rhea wrote: »

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/600mhz-award/

Early days on this, but they seem keen to get it up & running asap, as the 600 mHz band could be snatched back in 2018, by existing services vacating the 700 mHz band.

Can't see anyone being interested if the frequencies are going to be snatched back. Time for the UK to think about "snatching back" VHF and mandating all DTT boxes and TVs can tune it.

Sam Russell

winston_1 wrote: »

Can't see anyone being interested if the frequencies are going to be snatched back. Time for the UK to think about "snatching back" VHF and mandating all DTT boxes and TVs can tune it.

You mean go for Nordig with MHEG5 spec? :):)

zg3409

winston_1 wrote: »

Can't see anyone being interested if the frequencies are going to be snatched back. Time for the UK to think about "snatching back" VHF and mandating all DTT boxes and TVs can tune it.

VHF Band III is being used in the UK for DAB Digital radio. This system is a bit of a flop. As you say all hardware would need to be changed to use this band. It would also need new aerials. I can't see it being practical in the time frame considered.

Sam Russell

The UK could use this five year window to get people to migrate to T2 kit. If the STBs became super cheap, and there was a good choice of new high value content, then sales of T2 kit would allow other muxes to be changed over. It be another switch-over but would be driven by content, and thus would be better received.
.

winston_1

zg3409 wrote: »

VHF Band III is being used in the UK for DAB Digital radio.

As it is in Ireland and much of Europe. In general DAB uses the top of band III and DTT uses the lower part if at all.

winston_1

Sam Russell wrote: »

The UK could use this five year window to get people to migrate to T2 kit. If the STBs became super cheap, and there was a good choice of new high value content, then sales of T2 kit would allow other muxes to be changed over. It be another switch-over but would be driven by content, and thus would be better received.
.

It should also be mandated that all new kit, TVs and STBs are DVB-T2 capable.

Ronnie Raygun

These proposed channels will at least provide some incentive for viewers to equip themselves with T2 kit, in the absence of legislation.

Is Freeview certified the only DVB-T stuff that doesn't bother with band III?

Sam Russell

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

These proposed channels will at least provide some incentive for viewers to equip themselves with T2 kit, in the absence of legislation.

Is Freeview certified the only DVB-T stuff that doesn't bother with band III?

UK TVs have not had VHF for years - over 30 years, perhaps even 40 years.

zg3409

Even if they did it's the new Freeview HD T2 kit that would need a VHF Band III tuner, like many combined Saorview and Freeview HD TVs have. Usually if UK is selected as country it skips the VHF band III but a firmware fix would solve that on relevant TVs. Even that said it is not practical.

Ronnie Raygun

Whole point of the exercise seems to be to accelerate the migration to T2 & save any outcry when it happens anyway, to keep a decent service in what's left of the UHF tv band.

If at least some of these channels become available on Freesat, it might encourage a conversion to that platform in "unlucky" areas & maybe a few relays could be switched off too.

winston_1

Sam Russell wrote: »

UK TVs have not had VHF for years - over 30 years, perhaps even 40 years.

Half true. Over the last decade or so many TVs sold in the UK have VHF tuners again and some are multi standard.

Sam Russell

winston_1 wrote: »

Half true. Over the last decade or so many TVs sold in the UK have VHF tuners again and some are multi standard.

This is only because the TVs are now produced for other markets and are no longer produced in the UK at all. The fact that TVs now have a processor base and contain firmware makes possible the production of one basic chassis for many markets only differing in their firmware or the firmware setting thus reducing overall costs. Some manufacturers take this to extreme (I am thinking of Panasonic and their disabling MPEG4 in some of their sets).

The standards for UK TVs have not called for VHF tuners for nearly 40 years is true. The fact that some TV manufacturers do not disable VHF tuners in their sets when Country=UK is set in the firmware is a matter for the manufacturer - that does not alter the standard.

winston_1

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Is Freeview certified the only DVB-T stuff that doesn't bother with band III?

As far as I know, yes. All DTT boxes I have seen sold outside the UK have band III.

Peter Rhea

From thread in DS technical forum, 'Interim 600MHz Multiplex Indicative Proposal' from Arqiva: http://www.arqiva.com/corporate/pdf/ReferenceOffers/Interim%20600MHz%20Multiplex%20Indicative%20Proposal.pdf

Divis is in the top 10 stations listed ('target service start date' Mar. 2014) & is the only useful site for ROI reception in the top 30.

Peter Rhea

The responses to this consultation can be found here: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/600mhz-award/?showResponses=true&pageNum=1#responses.

Peter Rhea

Might as well update this . . .

Ofcom document 'Award of the 600 MHz spectrum band'.

So far, only the BBC have announced channels to be carried: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2013/bbchdchannels.html

Mr Cumulonimbus

Looking through the full ofcom document Divis has been allocated chs 33 and 34, both horizontal polarity (see page 34). Ch 34 is unrestricted but ch 33 is restricted to the NW (radiation pattern on page 46). Why this restriction I wonder?

Is Three Rock's proposed Saorview Mux 2 on ch 33? If so, is there potential for co-channel interference here? Partial reception of 3R on ch 30 via my Humax Fox T2 is available here in Dundalk.

Peter Rhea

At the power levels that will actually be used, the restriction on ch.33 won't be anywhere near coming into play. The radiation pattern templates shown are for the full 100 kW allowed.

It must be Hollywell Hill they have in mind with the restriction to the NW.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Peter Rhea wrote: »

At the power levels that will actually be used, the restriction on ch.33 won't be anywhere near coming into play. The radiation pattern templates shown are for the full 100 kW allowed.

It must be Hollywell Hill they have in mind with the restriction to the NW.

Holywell Hill Mux2 on 33 to account for this?

Just wondering then if Divis went to 100kW on 33 eventually and with no null to the south on that radiation pattern, would there be consequences for 3R's proposed mux 2 if that's on 33 too?

Thinking of this in relation to the current Divis versus Mt Leinster problems on ch 23, plus 3R and Divis are nearer to each other.

watty

Divis versus Mt Leinster problems

There is no such problem. Any people with any such issue have a bad installation or are so far from Divis they ought to be using Satellite for UK.

lucernarian

watty wrote: »

There is no such problem. Any people with any such issue have a bad installation or are so far from Divis they ought to be using Satellite for UK.

Not quite a fair comment really, it's a problem for some people but mainly an irrelevant one in the context of Freesat and so on. Besides, that wasn't even the point being made. The potential for interference with Divis and vice versa with Three Rock is a pertinent question.

Mr Cumulonimbus

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Besides, that wasn't even the point being made. The potential for interference with Divis and vice versa with Three Rock is a pertinent question.

Yes. I merely raised the Divis Mt Leinster scenario in relation to what may potentially happen with Divis versus 3R in the future on ch 33 should 3R use this frequency. I have UK FTA channel reception via satellite already, so losing channel 23 from Divis from time to time isn't important for me personally.

These new HD muxes appear to be output at around 4 kW at first, but if they bump them up to 100 kW eventually, could there be problems?

Peter Rhea

Going by the information provided so far, there would be no reason to think there will be any kind of power increases.

Peter Rhea

Attached is the Arqiva document that was linked to in post #16.

In order to support this Interim Multiplex proposal . . . to deliver 2 multiplexes at 10, 20 or 30 of the highest population sites, for a 5 year term as quickly and cost effectively as possible.

In the Interim Mux solution, the ERPs and transmitter power are lower than those contemplated in the original 600MHz Reference Offers which has allowed a greater number of existing antennas to support the Interim Multiplexes and reduced the need for new antennas. The Transmitters proposed at the majority of sites are the low power DTT transmitter systems.

Peter Rhea

The frequencies allocated to transmission sites receivable in ROI seem to cleared for the same ERP as the current PSB muxes, but with some directional restrictions towards ROI tx service areas.

These directional restrictions can be found in this attachment. It & other documents are still accessible via the link in the OP. Shows the agreements for the relevant channels in UK, Belgium, France, Netherlands & Ireland.

Peter Rhea

10 day old news now but this Arqiva press release, announcing the availability of Al Jazeera HD on the new service, mentions 'coverage in all nations' by Christmas 2013 & obviously that would have to include Divis.