Mass delusion

Are Irish people prone to mass delusions.

The catholic church.

De Valera and all the founders of the Irish republic who believed their own delusions aided and abetted by the fervent nationalism of the ordinary people.

My person favourite... all the myths about the old IRA and the black and Tans...there were no catholic landlords..everything was the fault of evil English landlords.

lkionm

That would be an ecumenical matter.

BBDBB

They went thataway

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girl2

Am wondering if your title "mass delusions" refers to mass as in catholic mass or mass as in lots of people.

Seems its a bit of a catholic bashing something or other regardless.

Hmm.

Lawrence1895

No, it's this way

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right against the wall, which is closest to where I sit

girl2

girl2 wrote: »

Am wondering if your title "mass delusions" refers to mass as in catholic mass or mass as in lots of people.

Seems its a bit of a catholic bashing something or other regardless.

Hmm.

Could be a Freudian slip:D I am not a church basher but I do wonder about the passive acceptance of Irish people...the idea that suffering in this life dose not matter as you will get your reward in the next life.

lkionm

I think they are all on the dole now, there is a load of people on it sure.

ArtyM

Op, if you are looking for a country in Europe that has previous for mass delusion I think you might find a better example than Ireland.

Celly Smunt

I respect Michael Collins,the first president of Ireland and leader of the provos.

UP DA RA!

bradlente

Is there anything to be said for saying another mass?

Airitech

Any time you have a lot of people who are poor, oppressed or desperate its easy to manipulate them and gain power over them if you provide some kind of hope for them.

Fascism, communism, all religions, extremists groups, revolutionaries do well when people are desperate. When people are comfortable, well educated they are more likely to want to see through the bull****.

We were poor and oppressed for long enough so its no surprise that some of those attitudes took hold but its not an Irish phenomenon. It's still happening all over the world today.

ArtyM

ArtyM wrote: »

Op, if you are looking for a country in Europe that has previous for mass delusion I think you might find a better example than Ireland.
Chüs!

Thats true look at Germany and the Nazis, I am more wondering about our particular mass delusions...you can not dislodge my mother and many of her generation from... the England bad Ireland good ideas, she utterly refuses to believe that there were catholic landlords during the famine, the 1798 rebellion was catholic verse Protestant affair, the old IRA were heroes, going to the Guards make you an informer and so on.

_Kaiser_

I wouldn't say mass delusion, but I do think we need someone else to make the decisions for us (controversial I know)

We fought for so many years for our Independence, got it and signed it away to the Church (and the disastrous consequences that had for Irish kids for decades thereafter not to mention holding back the social development of the country for an equally long time), finally got it back again in the last 30 years and promptly signed it away piece by piece to the EU

Anytime we have been let at the controls we've proven woefully inadequate to the task as the never-ending scandals from the corridors of power prove, not to mention electing people to run the country based on nothing more than who your parents voted for or how many potholes they fixed - hence why we have government after government of dangerously under-qualified teachers, publicans and lawyers playing statesmen on an international stage.

Any wonder the country is such a disaster area with all signs suggesting it'll only get worse yet

Micky Dolenz

I'll go with yes. Shur what's the harm in tarring an entire nation of people with the same brush.

Airitech

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I wouldn't say mass delusion, but I do think we need someone else to make the decisions for us (controversial I know)

We fought for so many years for our Independence, got it and signed it away to the Church (and the disastrous consequences that had for Irish kids for decades thereafter not to mention holding back the social development of the country for an equally long time), finally got it back again in the last 30 years and promptly signed it away piece by piece to the EU

Anytime we have been let at the controls we've proven woefully inadequate to the task as the never-ending scandals from the corridors of power prove, not to mention electing people to run the country based on nothing more than who your parents voted for or how many potholes they fixed - hence why we have government after government of dangerously under-qualified teachers, publicans and lawyers playing statesmen on an international stage.

Any wonder the country is such a disaster area with all signs suggesting it'll only get worse yet

We were mostly peasants for generations, subservient to the English, Catholic Church, everyone else effectively. We weren't allowed a voice and got used to being told what to do.

Supposedly many third class casualties on the Titanic occurred because the steerage passengers were waiting to be told what to do. There were avenues for escape but they just didn't have the mentality to take the initiative. They just waited for their "betters" to instruct them what to do.

That attitude got established and was passed on.

Fox_In_Socks

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I'll go with yes. Shur what's the harm in tarring an entire nation of people with the same brush.

They're cloying?

Micky Dolenz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I'll go with yes. Shur what's the harm in tarring an entire nation of people with the same brush.

I am not saying every one was like I describe but there was enough of them to overwhelm and mostly silence the rest.

Nodin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I'll go with yes. Shur what's the harm in tarring an entire nation of people with the same brush.

None at all. Isn't that what all the quality people do?

philologos

mariaalice wrote: »

Are Irish people prone to mass delusions.

The catholic church.

De Valera and all the founders of the Irish republic who believed their own delusions aided and abetted by the fervent nationalism of the ordinary people.

My person favourite... all the myths about the old IRA and the black and Tans...there were no catholic landlords..everything was the fault of evil English landlords.

It depends on what you consider delusional doesn't it?

philologos

philologos wrote: »

It depends on what you consider delusional doesn't it?

Very true... my life long genuinely held beliefs could be considered a mer delusion by others.

smash

philologos wrote: »

It depends on what you consider delusional doesn't it?

:pac:

Kxiii

Mass delusion, yes.

I know a few people who are deluded about their mass

laoch na mona

mariaalice wrote: »

Are Irish people prone to mass delusions.

all the myths about the old IRA .there were no catholic landlords..everything was the fault of evil English landlords.

explain the IRA one

catholic landlords were a minority and the religion of the land lord wasn't the point it was more about the wealthy who were loyal to the castle exploiting the poor and preventing reform in the 1790's which would have made Ireland more independent (at this time lord kenmare et al. lost sway over catholic reform bodies to more redical members)

jank

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I wouldn't say mass delusion, but I do think we need someone else to make the decisions for us (controversial I know)

We fought for so many years for our Independence, got it and signed it away to the Church (and the disastrous consequences that had for Irish kids for decades thereafter not to mention holding back the social development of the country for an equally long time), finally got it back again in the last 30 years and promptly signed it away piece by piece to the EU

Anytime we have been let at the controls we've proven woefully inadequate to the task as the never-ending scandals from the corridors of power prove, not to mention electing people to run the country based on nothing more than who your parents voted for or how many potholes they fixed - hence why we have government after government of dangerously under-qualified teachers, publicans and lawyers playing statesmen on an international stage.

Any wonder the country is such a disaster area with all signs suggesting it'll only get worse yet

We are not a serious people, hence the inability for the population at large to control themselves when voting in elections. We blow everything out of proportion as well and of course we love to hate ourselves.

laoch na mona

laoch na mona wrote: »

explain the IRA one

catholic landlords were a minority and the religion of the land lord wasn't the point it was more about the wealthy who were loyal to the castle exploiting the poor and preventing reform in the 1790's which would have made Ireland more independent (at this time lord kenmare et al. lost sway over catholic reform bodies to more radical members)

Thats exactly my point Irish people of a certain generation do not want to see or understand the facts of Irish History they want to stick with the repackaged republican hero's view of history, they want to believe the "Bolovoge" version of the 1798 rising instead of the complex reality. It can be funny at times the amount of people who do not realise that Padraig Pearse family were English is amazing.

The reason this is important is because it that sort of capacity for mass delusion that allowed what went on in industrial schools and Magdalen laundries to happen, it is the same reason people could be surrounded by mass poverty and an economy that was stagnating and still believe that Ireland was a wonderful county.

I am very proud to be Irish for all sort of quirky reasons..the fact tha we give more foreigner aid than a lot of countries of our size, or our since of humour and so on.

Having a critical view of your county dose not mean we hate ourselves.

The argument that the Irish love to hate themselves is often used as a way to silence an argument that people are not comfortable with

Dravokivich

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I'll go with yes. Shur what's the harm in tarring an entire nation of people with the same brush.

Don't know if I can commit to the ole racism full time there Micky.

im invisible

The farm takes up most of the day, and at night i just like a cup of tea.

clairefontaine

Anywhere that you have a nation of oppressed people, strict government controls, regulated media and censorship you will find this. Look at the poor brainswashed people of North Korea.

When you live in insularity, it's not hard for it to happen. Plus group think can be dangerous too.

--Kaiser--

Humans as a species are prone to mass delusions and group thinking, nothing particularly special about the Irish

conorhal

The mass delusion as far as I'm concerned is that we signed over our independence to the church. Or that it was that Dev and FF. We’re as bad at the Germans in ‘45 claiming that they had no idea what the Nazi’s were up to. Responsibility, whoever you asked always fell just that one level above their heads.
Then as now we suffered from that peculiar quirk of the Irish psyche that is the denial of responsibility and the immediate desire to abdicate it.

There is no difference between the state of yester year to took no responsibility for it's citizens, but instead left the church to run the hospitals and social services, and the state of today that cerates quangos and NGO to ensure responsibility is held at arms length.
We’ve always been satisfied to pass legislation and call it job done, but never implement change on the ground. The Children’s Referendum was a prime example of this. How can you enshrine in law the special status of children while at the same time cutting respite services, guidance counselors and turning a blind eye to the plight of many children and claim it as progress?
The new anti bullying policy is another prime example. The government, now that it has axed guidance counselors wants to offer some meager training to all school staff to help them ‘spot children in need’. In other words, go talk to the cleaners instead kid. When you apply ‘total responsibility’, and claim that everybody is responsible it’s really just another was of saying that nobody is.

We’re great at holding inquiries into 40 or 50 year old cases for which a nearly dead and long out of power generation can be collectively blamed but very bad at examining anything that our current generation will no doubt he held accountable for in another 50 years. This will never stop until we finally demand that those in power today are accountable for their actions and we as voters demand more of them then a pot hole filled.

Agricola

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Humans as a species are prone to mass delusions and group thinking....

This. But I'd say what's "special" about us is that we began as a very small insular country with a lot of (perfectly reasonable) hangups about the outside world. Catholicism and nationalism became very intertwined and this fanned the flames of the problem.

We also have a national characteristic which could be described as "leave well enough alone" and we just loved deferring to authority figures, so we jumped at the chance to get new ones in the absence of the old British ones.

up for anything

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I wouldn't say mass delusion, but I do think we need someone else to make the decisions for us (controversial I know)

We fought for so many years for our Independence, got it and signed it away to the Church (and the disastrous consequences that had for Irish kids for decades thereafter not to mention holding back the social development of the country for an equally long time), finally got it back again in the last 30 years and promptly signed it away piece by piece to the EU

Anytime we have been let at the controls we've proven woefully inadequate to the task as the never-ending scandals from the corridors of power prove, not to mention electing people to run the country based on nothing more than who your parents voted for or how many potholes they fixed - hence why we have government after government of dangerously under-qualified teachers, publicans and lawyers playing statesmen on an international stage.

Any wonder the country is such a disaster area with all signs suggesting it'll only get worse yet

That's a dangerous way of thinking - a nanny state needing a nanny itself? If you were to compare Ireland to a child or use dog years since independence was gained, it's just about out of its teens. Still making lots and lots of mistakes but learning through experience. Rebelling against its parents but still needing them in many ways. It takes a long time for a child to reach maturity and it is the same with what was intrinsically a new country. Sure Ireland will fuck up constantly but eventually long after we're all dead maybe it'll have gotten a bit of sense just like us individually (hopefully).

You could say the same about the UK, Russia, Australia, the US, DCR, France, Germany, Saudi, in fact any other country in the world. If you asked the Joe Soaps of those countries, whether they've been an established country for centuries or a brand new country, they'd say exactly the same about their governments and politicians.

ETA:

To prove that point - two status updates from my FB page (she's a games friend, not a personal friend because none of my best friends are Republican )




The comment made about her parents being delighted was I would say facetious as she was very vocal on FB after the US elections last year about the stupidity and the lack of education her parents were possessed of because they voted for Obama. :pacman: