Prevent-A Puncture

fergal.b

I was thinking about getting this done as my car is wheelchair adapted so getting at the spare can be a bit of a pain.
There was a few posts on this when it came out on Dragons Den but now that a bit of time has past I would like to know if anyone had it done and how did they find it,

1) Did it affect the balance.

2) Has anyone changed a tyre with this stuff inside :eek:, did it make you charge more and do you have to change the valves.

Any pro's or con's would be great thanks.





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goz83

I got it installed in my FTO and my Zafira. My experience of it hasn't been great. I just finished emailing the company about the issues I had and I will update here soon. I got the Zafira done for the same reasons you're considering.

fergal.b

Thanks for that, I have put it off for the moment as I plan to get new tyres at my next service.




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goz83

Below are some email exchanges between myself and Prevent A Puncture (PAP). I have removed personal details and renamed the Garage that installed the fluid to "CarFix" and my name to Goz83. The email exchanges are NOT with the garage. I got the stuff installed, because like everyone else, I hate the thought of lugging the spare wheel out of the boot, especially when it's cold and raining. I got the PAP fluid in my Mitsi FTO and on the Opel Zafira, because the spare is under the body. The emails:

ME: Sent in first week of December (Dec 6th I think)

query submitted via the PAP website:
I had the solution put into my 4 new tires on both my cars (zafira & fto) during the summer. Within a fortnight, i got screw lodged into a tyre and the solution failed to work. The Carfix garage in Dublin put more solution into the tyre and I went on my way. Last week, I had a deflated front left tyre on the same car and the garage sorted that problem. Today (1 hour before my NCT) the front right driver tire is completely deflated. I have called Carfix and they are sending someone to sort the situation out, but i’m very annoyed and stressed about this now and will probably miss my test time. I have security valve caps on all tires, so this could not have been deflated by kids/teens. I paid good money for this stuff and it has failed 3 times on me, which is totally unacceptable. I have since learned that the CarFix garage no longer stocks the solution. Before I make an official complaint, I wanted to give you the chance to fix this.

--
This mail is sent via Enquiries form on Prevent-A-Puncturehttp://www.preventapuncture.ie


Reply Sent after another email on 11/12/12

Dear Goz83

Firstly sorry for the delay in replying to your email but for some reason your email was spammed.

We are very concerned by your email and will endeavour to get to the end of the matter but in order for me to do this

I will need some further information from you in order to investigate your experience and I will send that request to you tomorrow.

I hope you were able to make it to your NCT appointment.

Thank you again for your email

Kind regards

Name Snip
Managing Director
Waraker Limited


Next Mail sent on 12/12/12

Dear Goz83

Following on from my email to you yesterday, I would be grateful if you could furnish me with the following:-

1/ Full Contact Details

2/ Make and Size of Tyres

3/ Copy of Installation Docket that CarFix provided you with.

4/ Advise if the Tyres were new or old prior to installation

5/ Advise if the Tyres in question were ever punctured prior to installation

6/ What steps were taken when removing the screw from your tyre.

7/ Registration of Car

8/ Copy of the Customer Care Sheet provided to you by CarFix

9/ Price paid to CarFix

10/ Date of Installation.

Upon receipt of the above information I will arranged to have this matter investigated without out any delay.

Thank you again for bringing this matter to our attention.

If you have any other queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards

Name Snip
Managing Director
Waraker Limited


My Reply Sent 12/12/12

Hi Name Snip.

My wife is going into labour, so it may be a few days before I can get back to you with the documents.

Goz83



I followed up on 20/12/12 with info requested:


Hi Name Snip,

It's been a busy week. New baby arrived on the 13th, so this is the first chance I have had to get back to you. I will answer your questions, point by point insofar as it is possible.

1) Goz83. address and phone number snipped.

2) HI-FLY 805 91W. Size 215/45X17.

3) Attached photo of invoice/receipt to this mail. Apologies for the less than perfect quality, my wireless scanner is not working wirelessly at the moment. Tires installed October 17th 2011. Fluid installed March 29th 2012 costing €65.

4) Answered in 3.

5) No punctures prior, with the exception of one front tire, which was punctured and replaced with a new tyre in 2012 at same Garage (CarFix).

6) Noticed screw was in tyre when I arrived at my brothers residence, which is near the garage. I removed the screw with a pliers, by twisting it out in an anti-clockwise motion, so as to prevent a larger hole. The screw was a small one, about 1.5 inches long, but had pierced only halfway toward the outerside of the tyre. Air immediately began to leak from the tyre and I drove to the garage before the tyre could deflate. The garage was only a couple of hundred metres away, but there was still leakage when I arrived. The puncture was not prevented.

7) 97 car reg.

8) I do not recall receiving a customer care sheet. More fluid was injected into the tyre after it was repaired. CarFix contacted (presumably yourselves) to report the problem and the advice was to put in more fluid. I went on my way. This happened very soon after the fluid was put in and I have had two instances this December where my front tyres were deflating, or were completely deflated.

9) €65.

10) 29/03/2011.

I have covered less than ten thousand kilometeres and my tyres are in otherwise, perfect condition. We got our Opel Zafira done around the same time, but there have been no issues there. The tyres were new from the dealer.

I'm quite disappointed that I have had trouble on three occasions in eight months with the product failing. I seen it on Dragons Den and encouraged a few of my friends to get it done on their cars. I now look like a bit of a fool, because I am the one who has had the issues with the product.

Regards,

Goz83


I Followed up after hearing nothing by the 28th

Name Snip,

I have been very patient waiting on an answer from you. Has my query been put aside and forgotten about?

Regards,

Goz83



I got a reply the same day:

Hi Goz83

Thank you for your email.

I had a quick look at the email traffic between us and it would appear that the last email we received was advising us that your wife was due to have a new baby and that you would revert with the information once you were in a position to do so.

I really require this information in order for me to find out what happened, I need to know the amount of sealant installed, your type of tyres (Run Flats or Standard) the mileage on the tyres at time of installation and any other misc information that may be recorded and the information on the PAP installation record that CarFix should have provided you with and the information that they hold themselves is vital for me to get to the end of this issue.

I assure you that once I get this information I will give your query the importance that it requires.

If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards

Name Snip
Managing Director
Waraker Limited


I then resent the email from the 20th


His reply on the 28th:

Hi Goz83,

Just got your email thanks, I will start to look into the matter. I there is anything that I require I will send you a mail and if you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards

Name Snip
Managing Director
Waraker Limited


On Feb 5th, I got this follow up :rolleyes:

Hi Goz83,

Can you advise me if your tyres are Standard Tyres or Run Flat Tyres and can you also advise me if CarFix issued with a Prevent-A-Puncture installation docket?

I would be grateful if you could forward me the docket. Thank you for your help in this matter and for contacting us.

Kind regards

Name Snip
Managing Director
Waraker Limited


My reply same day:

Hi Name Snip,

The tyres were standard. I don't recall receiving a PAP docket. I'm sure if you contact CarFix, they will confirm that I got the PAP fluid installed. You need only mention my name and that I drive the FTO. I've been a regular there for quite some time and always look after my cars. I didn't want to complain to CarFix, because they simply installed the PAP fluid, which I assume, once trained, is difficult to get wrong.

Goz83



His reply same day:

Hi Goz83

Thanks for your email.

Prevent-A-Puncture is like a washing machine, if it is not installed properly it won't work.

The installation docket will tell me the amount of sealant that was installed into each tyre.

Can you tell me if your tyres are run flat of standard tyres?

Thanks again

Regards

Name Snip



My reply, same day:

Hi Name Snip,

As per my last reply, the tyres are standard. Thankfully I have had no issues with flats since I first wrote you, but I don't often have punctures anyway. It's certainly possible I received an installation docket, but I don't remember receiving one and I keep all receipts I receive for my car, in a folder. I don't have an installation docket for PAP in that folder.

Goz83


By March 3rd, I had given up hope and sent:

Hi Name Snip,

It has been almost three months since I first contacted you and a month since you last replied to my emails about the PAP fluid issues. I don't think my emails have received anything more than light humouring. I will be recommending against the use of PAP on several motor forums where I have memberships. I'm quite disappointed, because I was very impressed when I first seen the product on the dragons den. I don't recall seeking any refund, which is why I am surprised of basically being fobbed off. I don't want a reply, I just wanted to bring this complaint to a close.

Regards,

Goz83


I received a reply about a half hour later, which was about 11:30pm:

Hi Goz83

Thank you for your email

The delay in replying to you is simply because we have not fully established the events

You advised me that you did not have an installation document and you advised me to go back to the centre in question to get one.

I have done this, but to date they have not returned a copy to me.

I need this document to assertion exactly what the installer did, how much was installed, the name of the installer and what happened when you first called back to the centre.

As I advised earlier, the first I ever heard of your issue was when you wrote to us.

CarFix had never communicated your problem to us and we never advised them to insert extra fluid into your tyres as suggested in one of your earlier emails.

As I mentioned before if Prevent-A-Puncture is not installed in the correct manner it will fail to work and this includes the wrong amount of fluid inserted. My problem at the moment is without an installation docket I cannot tell the amount of units that were installed into each tyre

I would ask that you wait another seven days and I hope to be able to revert to you one way or the other.

Prevent-A-Puncture is the same as a washing machine, it may be installed by a fully trained plumber but if they cut corners or do not follow their training the machine will not work. It is not a manufactures problem but an installation issue.

We do not supply CarFix and it was a company decision to delist them for customer and brand protection reasons

I thank you for your patience and I assure you that I will be in contact with you shortly.

Kind regards
Name Snip


My response was sent after midnight.

From what I was able to see and what I remember is the installer syringing a green fuid from a container holding several litres of green fluid. Each time, the same amount of fluid was sucked into the large syringe device and was then injected into the tyres from via the air nozzle. The installer checked how much fluid the tyre needed before he began.

On a side note: Referring to the installation of PAP to that of a washing machine is not an accurate one as I would see. You've mentioned this before. I'm not the expert here, but I would have thought that the important thing is that the right amount of fluid is installed into the tyre and the tyre should be inflated to optimum pressure before being driven for several miles to allow the fluid to properly coat the walls of the tyres. I would say it's more akin to putting the right amounf of water into a home brew, rather than installing a washing machine. It's about measurement of a chemical/ingredient, rather than hardware installation, but that's just an observation from me.

It's possible that the issue is an installer one, but I don't think it's professional conduct to assume this without the facts being in place. I haven't had any issue since and like I said, I just want this closed. I won't be passing blame, i'm simply recalling my experience and I do appreciate your reply at such a late hour. However, I would prefer that I hear no more about this. I have given it plenty of time and my patience is as empty as my next set of tyres will be. Thanks again.

Goz83

Eric Cartman

goz83 wrote: »

2) HI-FLY 805 91W. Size 215/45X17.

Im going to stop you right there, the tires you have on the car are a very cheap chinese tire and really dont hold up well online http://www.productreview.com.au/r/hifly-hf201/330767.html being only 1 review.

now I have no experience of PAP , Im not saying anything for or against it, but its very possible that it is not designed to be used with the hard rubber compounds found in budget chinese tires. The actual tires themselves could be the reason for deflation and so many punctures.

keithsfleet

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im going to stop you right there, the tires you have on the car are a very cheap chinese tire and really dont hold up well online http://www.productreview.com.au/r/hifly-hf201/330767.html being only 1 review.

now I have no experience of PAP , Im not saying anything for or against it, but its very possible that it is not designed to be used with the hard rubber compounds found in budget chinese tires. The actual tires themselves could be the reason for deflation and so many punctures.

I agree with you, I saw the tire brand and thought the same thing but if that's case it should really be pointed out on the product that it's not suitable for certain tires.

goz83

Thanks for editing the garage name colm_mcm. There was so much to edit I missed that.

Regarding the tyres guys; PAP never mentioned anything about them being a problem, so it shouldn't have been a problem. If the fluid is not compatible with certain tyres, they should say so. But thanks for the tyre advice anyway. Personally I find them to be a pretty decent tyre on the road.

My real issue with PAP was the speed of their customer care, coupled with pointing the finger before getting the facts. It's a pet hate of mine.

colm_mcm

goz83 wrote: »

We do not supply CarFix and it was a company decision to delist them for customer and brand protection reasons

From this do they mean that CarFix werent authorised dealers for them, and were supplying it anyway, or that they were using some other product?

Surely if it's the former, then they would have known that straight away when they tried to get the docket

fergal.b

Looks like you got a bit of a runaround there, I don't think the tyre would make much of a difference if the stuff didn't even seal up the screw hole.
Congrats on the new baby.:)




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Nissan doctor

@goz83, Looking at the brand of tyres you had and the fact that 'carfix' supplied the PAP to you I can be very certain which company you are talking about.

I can also say that PAP saying they delisted 'carfix' for 'customer and brand protection reasons' is laughable. In one branch alone there were numerous customer returns with both balancing issues and punctures in tyres fitted with PAP. PAP was also tested personally by staff of 'carfix' and found, on all 3 tests to simply have no effect on stopping a puncture. And these where standard nail in the center of the tyre punctures, where the PAP was fitted following PAP's own chart and training..

PAP was, in fact, removed from stock by 'carfix' for 'customer and brand protection reasons'

deandean

I haven't used that product directly but I have used 'slime' which is a gooey green stuff, probably the same type of product which is IIRC, latex-based.

The product will only fix a puncture if the tyre is rotating when the puncture occurs, this allows some of the liquid to be expelled through the puncture and coagulate, thus sealing the hole.

You can have several litres of the stuff in a car tyre and, once it has rested for a while, you can puncture the top of the tyre and yes it will deflate until the tyre is rotated, allowing the hole to be sealed. This in my opinion is the big advantage of these sealants, if you get a puncture while bombing along the motorway, the puncture is sealed immediately and it might save your ass. Remember the tyre off Dana's car after 'that incident'? :rolleyes:

In the case whereby you pull a screw out of a tyre, you need to drive the car immediately afterwards, this seals the puncture, and you probably will lose a few psi so you may need to pump the tyre a bit as well.

Those tyre sealing fluids should increase reliability, but they're not miracle workers either.

goz83

deandean wrote: »

In the case whereby you pull a screw out of a tyre, you need to drive the car immediately afterwards, this seals the puncture.

The minute I pulled the screw, I drove the car to CarFix and it was still leaking air and some of the fluid was just spitting out without sealing the tyre.

It's also supposed to stop the tyre from leaking small amounts of air over time, but I can confirm this to be false too.

Tyre girl

Hi Guys

I am a tire girl, originally from the states and i have worked in the tire industry both here and in the states for years and i have seen loads of things come and go. I have been reading through the comments on this thread and i would just like too say that I work for a garage that installs this sealant and I really wish you mentioned the name of the garage as it tars us all with the same brush. I was trained for 3 hours and as part of the training i was told not to install it into run flat tires or low profile tires, i have done loads of cars and bikes and i havent had any complaints

I would like to know the real name of the tire garage cause like all places in industry there are good and bad ones and it looks to me
like you have a different motivation in keeping their name out. Do you work for this Garage? or do you own this delisted garage?

I would also like to know why you were ready to name the company but not the garage seems a bit strange?

In one of the emails it asks about the installation docket and from your mails it would seem that you did not provide this, is this true?
if this is true, how do they know you got anything done in the first place?

I agree with the man Eric about the chinese tires as these have a different compound and the garage should advise you about the quality of these tires, it is the same as the people that are buying second hand tires, they have no road history for these tyres

goz83

Tyre girl wrote: »

Hi Guys

I am a tire girl, originally from the states and i have worked in the tire industry both here and in the states for years and i have seen loads of things come and go. I have been reading through the comments on this thread and i would just like too say that I work for a garage that installs this sealant and I really wish you mentioned the name of the garage as it tars us all with the same brush. I was trained for 3 hours and as part of the training i was told not to install it into run flat tires or low profile tires, i have done loads of cars and bikes and i havent had any complaints

I would like to know the real name of the tire garage cause like all places in industry there are good and bad ones and it looks to me
like you have a different motivation in keeping their name out. Do you work for this Garage? or do you own this delisted garage?

I would also like to know why you were ready to name the company but not the garage seems a bit strange?

In one of the emails it asks about the installation docket and from your mails it would seem that you did not provide this, is this true?
if this is true, how do they know you got anything done in the first place?

I agree with the man Eric about the chinese tires as these have a different compound and the garage should advise you about the quality of these tires, it is the same as the people that are buying second hand tires, they have no road history for these tyres

Does it say that pap is not to be installed in low profiles? Does it say it is not to be installed in run flats? Does it say it is not to be installed in Chinese tyres? I was not made aware of this and saw no such information on their approved sales leaflets.

I named the company because the product is named after the company and it was hardly avoidable. I did not name the garage, because there was no need to name the garage on a public forum. I would PM you more information, but you have no post history here and I treat you as credible as you treat Chinese tyres.

Tyre girl

Yes they did tell us that it was not to be used in run flat tires and low profile tires and we pass this on to our customers.

Maybe you might do me a fav, when my credibility has improved,will you send me the name of the garage???????

goz83

Tyre girl wrote: »

Yes they did tell us that it was not to be used in run flat tires and low profile tires and we pass this on to our customers.

Maybe you might do me a fav, when my credibility has improved,will you send me the name of the garage???????

I wonder how long it took them to figure that out. And the Chinese tyre part?

Maybe I might

fergal.b

Hi Tyre girl, I'm not sure how obtaining the company name is going to make any difference now but as your here and in the business maybe you can answer some of my questions on the subject I would also like to know out of curiosity how much of the liquid you would pump into one of my tyres 205/70R16
Thanks.




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VeVeX

Heres an image of one of there stalls.

Presumably that tyre has the sealant in it? Its a budget tyre just like the op's hifly and the tyre itself looks a hell of alot like a 215/45R17 to me.

johnayo

VeVeX wrote: »

Heres an image of one of there stalls.

Presumably that tyre has the sealant in it? Its a budget tyre just like the op's hifly and the tyre itself looks a hell of alot like a 215/45R17 to me.

I think that is Tyre Girl in the pic:pac::pac:

goz83

I'm no tyre expert, but correct me if i'm wrong....on the PAP website, in the "opportunities" section; the picture of the van would seem to have a "low profile" tyre on it. Again, it could just be my eyes, deceiving me, I am looking at it on the phone you see.

I also had a look at their website in the FAQ section. Note: I never got money back and it was never offered. I believe my numbers 3 AND 4 applied to me on two separate occasions.


Q: What guarantees does Prevent-A-Puncture offer to its customers?

Our product contains certain conditions, exclusions and requirements. Briefly, the Prevent-A-Puncture Limited Warranty states: our manufacturer. agrees to repair or replace, at its sole option and at its expense, any tyre (as defined below) treated with Prevent-A-Puncture that was damaged or ruined beyond repair, provided that the tyre:

1.Is on a privately owned passenger car, van or pick-up truck with a GVWR of 8,500 pounds or less (“Vehicle”), or privately leased Vehicle, if during the term of the lease, and after purchase (if any) by the lessee, the lessee is primarily obligated for repairs; and

2.Has at least 2/32nds of an inch of tread at the time of your claim; and

3.Incurs a flat due to a puncturing object, measuring no more than 1/4 of one inch in diameter, that enters the tread area of the tyre; and/or

4.Incurs a puncture due to porosity leaks

If your tyre is not flat, and you claim a Covered Damage resulting from an out-of-balance condition, your remedy is limited to re-balancing the affected tyre.

VeVeX

The main problem with these tyre sealants is they have the potential to plug a puncture without the motorist knowing that they actually had a puncture in the first place. A puncture should never be repaired without an external/internal inspection. Liquid sealants are not recognised as an acceptable repair by industry standards, see BS AU 159

goz83

Just thought I would update the thread. Today I drove a few miles. I arrived home and got out of the car (it still has the PAP fluid in the tyres) only to hear air leaking from the front passenger tyre. I checked it and saw that a screw was stuck in the tyre. It was about 2 inches in from the base of the tyre, so the PAP fluid should have plugged it. I removed the screw and the air kept coming out. I feltsome fluid hitting my cheek when I pulled the screw out. I drove the car forard a few inches so the hole was facing the ground. The air was still coming out. Tyre is flat. PAP is total bo11ocks.

goz83

I rang "CarFix" and asked if they could send someone up to take my wheel and plug the tyre. The guy said he has never had som many problems with a single product. I was made privvy to some very interesting information between the garage and PAP, but it's not to be mentioned here of course. TBH, i'm almost looking forward to the time I have to change the tyres, because I won't have that rubbish in them. I'm now waiting for my wheel to be put back on, plugged properly.

Nissan doctor

goz83 wrote: »

I rang "CarFix" and asked if they could send someone up to take my wheel and plug the tyre. The guy said he has never had som many problems with a single product. I was made privvy to some very interesting information between the garage and PAP, but it's not to be mentioned here of course. TBH, i'm almost looking forward to the time I have to change the tyres, because I won't have that rubbish in them. I'm now waiting for my wheel to be put back on, plugged properly.

If you want it repaired properly....don't have it plugged.

goz83

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If you want it repaired properly....don't have it plugged.

I say plugged, but I don't know how they fix it exactly tbh.