Buying Agri land with no Pp

wicklow_hunter

Hi all,

Im in a bit of a dilema. Some agri land has came up for sale with the words - 'may have potential for single dwelling' Estate agent told me that it eill be sold as agri land and not subject to pp. Curently a bid of 150k on it 14 acres. I walked the land and was blown away by the view. I immediatey contacted planning and told them to visit the site. They did mention that i will need 65m sightlines measured 2m back from the road.I would be lucky to get 30m sight lines without straightening the road or taking out a neighbours hedge.

How could i handle this situation -
is it too risky to buy with out pp given the circumstances?

Ii am led to believe that those pree planning meetings a re not legally binding and will not guarantee anything especially sightlines...

Has any1 found themselves in this situation ? Any advise is welcome.

By the way i am a farmers son so i wold have use for the land - but see it as more of a nice to have...

im also 28 single, cash ready buyer...

muffler

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

with the words - 'may have potential for single dwelling'

I usually get a bit wary when I see "may" and "potential" used in the same sentence.

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

I immediatey contacted planning and told them to visit the site.

I sincerely hope you asked them otherwise you're off on the wrong footing.

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

is it too risky to buy with out pp given the circumstances?

Its a risk buying any land without planning permission unless of course its to be used as agricultural.

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

Ii am led to believe that those pree planning meetings a re not legally binding and will not guarantee anything

The pre planning meetings will guarantee nothing and never did but they are intended to help the public (and planners) to sort out or at least point out any potential problems that are likely to arise when a formal application is made.



The best advice I can give you is to employ a local arch. technician/architect to have a look at it as you wont get all the answers here. As you said the sight lines are an issue and sometimes this can be overcome and at other times its just impossible. A site visit by a professional will give you a good understanding of what you are likely to face.

But leaving the sight lines aside there are lots of other issues that will have to be sorted out. You will need to know the zoning of the land, if you qualify for a house under the local rural housing policy, the suitability of the land for sewage treatment and disposal, the source of domestic water supply, the method of disposing of storm water, the location of monuments, if lands are in any designated heritage areas, location of electric and telephone services, and not to mention the type of house (if any) that would be allowed and where on the overall lands would it be situated?

There are a lot of factors and in fairness a lot of these can be ironed out at a pre-planning meeting. But if you were to go down this route you will need maps and sketches of your proposal so you will need to engage a professional in any event.

heavydawson

Is buying it subject to planning not an option?
That way if the planning falls through, you're not stuck with the land, but you'd lose the cost of architects, solicitors, planning, incurred to that point
Our first site fell through for reasons I won't go into, but the contract to purchase was subject to obtaining planning, and as such, we were able to walk away when planning didn't go our way.

martinn123

heavydawson wrote: »

Is buying it subject to planning not an option?
That way if the planning falls through, you're not stuck with the land, but you'd lose the cost of architects, solicitors, planning, incurred to that point

Wicklow-Hunter wrote:

Some agri land has came up for sale with the words - 'may have potential for single dwelling' Estate agent told me that it eill be sold as agri land and not subject to pp. Curently a bid of 150k on it 14 acres.

Well to be fair to the vendor/Agent it is offered for sale as Agri Land, I presume the value at 150K reflects this.

If you see potential, and also can use the land for Agri, then the value is what you perceive it to be, the ''may have potential for dwelling issue'' is up to you, it sounds like it would be a bonus if you got to build on it.

blops2013

What are the sightlines you talk about and why 65m etc... and what do you mean without straighting the road. Are you even aloud to take out hedges/trees to make way to enter a site for a house

You can purchse the land subject to you getting planning permission.

wicklow_hunter

The vendor wants a straight sale and not a sale subject to planning permission. As mentioned in the initial post - sight lines are not good. Planning requirement is 65 meters.

I find this strange as there is countless houses built on back roads and lucky to have 5 m sightlines... and these are only built within the last 5 - 10 years


I cant afford to tie money up in agri land at the moment. The return is very little in farming. I would still need to buy another site. Im not sure which profesional to talk to about sight lines. Road engineer or architect ?

I have no problem spending 5k finding out if its possible to build on it as it has the wow factor and i have been looking for 3 years and i think this might be it!

martinn123

No one is going to agree to sell 14 acres of Agri land, subject to planning for a single dwelling on say a 1 acre site.

Any chance you could carve out a site and make an offer on that, subject to planning.

Aard

As mentioned previously, you may need to prove that you have a Local Housing Need. Check the latest Development Plan on the council's website. There are usually strict rules as to who can build on the land. If you have no connection with the area, or do not work close by, or if there is a settlement nearby, or a host of other conditions, you may not be granted permission. Even then, you will not be able to sell the house for seven years or more.

Poor Uncle Tom

If the land is being sold as agricultural lands you can be sure the seller has looked at the possibility of selling a site separately but has most likely been shot down, perhaps they have sold sites previously, etc. If this is the case you are whistling against the wind. Try a pre planning meeting and see what turns up.

overshoot

blops2013 wrote: »

What are the sightlines you talk about and why 65m etc... and what do you mean without straighting the road.

for the creation of an entrance onto a road, you need to show that you can see a safe distance so you dont pull onto the road infront of an unsuspecting car. As in your not making one at a blind corner being the extreme case. the old gate to a field wouldnt count as an existing entrance and the distance is specified by the relevant authority for a certain road type

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

If the land is being sold as agricultural lands you can be sure the seller has looked at the possibility of selling a site separately but has most likely been shot down, perhaps they have sold sites previously, etc. If this is the case you are whistling against the wind. Try a pre planning meeting and see what turns up.

even just go on the councils website for now and into the planning section any applications in the area will be up there. it will give you an idea if the site does have a planning history and any reasons why they may have been rejected

Poor Uncle Tom

overshoot wrote: »

even just go on the councils website for now and into the planning section any applications in the area will be up there. it will give you an idea if the site does have a planning history and any reasons why they may have been rejected

It won't tell you if there has been negative pre plannings on the landholding previously, it won't tell you if the planners have concerns about the present owner having sold sites previously, it won't tell you if this was part of a larger folio which sold off sites previously.

The website will only show you past planning applications, there may not be any, that doesn't mean there is no history attached to the lands that only a pre planning will highlight.

muffler

I'll reiterate the advice I posted earlier which is broadly in line with every other piece of advice given here and Im a little confused as to why you are still failing to see what you have to do here.

muffler wrote: »

The pre planning meetings will guarantee nothing and never did but they are intended to help the public (and planners) to sort out or at least point out any potential problems that are likely to arise when a formal application is made.

The best advice I can give you is to employ a local arch. technician/architect to have a look at it as you wont get all the answers here.

There are a lot of factors and in fairness a lot of these can be ironed out at a pre-planning meeting. But if you were to go down this route you will need maps and sketches of your proposal so you will need to engage a professional in any event.

overshoot

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It won't tell you if there has been negative pre plannings on the landholding previously, it won't tell you if the planners have concerns about the present owner having sold sites previously, it won't tell you if this was part of a larger folio which sold off sites previously.

The website will only show you past planning applications, there may not be any, that doesn't mean there is no history attached to the lands that only a pre planning will highlight.

meant it as a starting point that he can do himself. we dont know much, there could be a few rejected applications who knows. he needs the pre planning as had been suggested above plenty of times, was just another idea for him. i suppose history of the site wasnt quite the right term tho

taka

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It won't tell you if there has been negative pre plannings on the landholding previously, it won't tell you if the planners have concerns about the present owner having sold sites previously, it won't tell you if this was part of a larger folio which sold off sites previously.

The website will only show you past planning applications, there may not be any, that doesn't mean there is no history attached to the lands that only a pre planning will highlight.

When you say about sites being sold of previously from the folio, do planners dislike this and when you say previously, what if a land owner sold a site 10 years ago and wanted to sell one of now at subject to planning, would the planners refuse on the basis that there was already a site sold from this folio.

Poor Uncle Tom

taka wrote: »

When you say about sites being sold of previously from the folio, do planners dislike this and when you say previously, what if a land owner sold a site 10 years ago and wanted to sell one of now at subject to planning, would the planners refuse on the basis that there was already a site sold from this folio.

It varies between LA's and planners. Generally, it is whatever was stated in the CDP when the site was sold and what is stated in the CDP now.

blops2013

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It varies between LA's and planners. Generally, it is whatever was stated in the CDP when the site was sold and what is stated in the CDP now.

la and cdp ?

sydthebeat

Local Authority and County Development Plan

blops2013

sydthebeat wrote: »

Local Authority and County Development Plan

Would the CDP be online ?

sydthebeat

blops2013 wrote: »

Would the CDP be online ?

i dont know, did you google?