Dental Costs

discombobulate

Just been to the dentist fo rthe first time in about 3 years. I had a quick checkup and clean taking about 10 minutes or less and an xray taking no more than 2 minutes. The cost was 120 and got 30 off for PRSI.

I was wondering if this sounds normal? Just seemed very expensive to me for a few minutes work!

tatli_lokma

I would say that sounds about right - My dentist charges €65 for checkup and basic clean and polish. So add on x-rays and I reckon €120 sounds about right

discombobulate

Little Ted wrote: »

I would say that sounds about right - My dentist charges €65 for checkup and basic clean and polish. So add on x-rays and I reckon €120 sounds about right

€55 for a 2 minute x-ray? I should have asked how much it cost before he done it!!!

tatli_lokma

In fairness its not billed on a per-minute basis! Whether it takes 2 mins or 2 hours, it is the professional services you are paying for. X-rays aren't cheap.

discombobulate

Little Ted wrote: »

In fairness its not billed on a per-minute basis! Whether it takes 2 mins or 2 hours, it is the professional services you are paying for. X-rays aren't cheap.

But it could never take 2 hours so thats a bit irrelevant. Looking on the website of the dentist its €20 for a small x-ray or €55 for a large x-ray. Whats the difference?

tatli_lokma

one is bigger than the other!

discombobulate

Little Ted wrote: »

one is bigger than the other!

Lesson learned I guess. I think he should have informed me though.

tatli_lokma

yeah it always pays to check just how much treatments will cost before you actually agree to have them...especially when they are non-urgent things that can wait til you are in a better position to pay.
Its an expensive business in Ireland, keeping yourself healthy!

Oral Surgeon

discombobulate wrote: »

€55 for a 2 minute x-ray? I should have asked how much it cost before he done it!!!

You're paying for 3 things here;

The 2 minutes of clinical time to take the xray

The xray machinery involved costing tens of thousands

The dentists time, knowledge and training in reading, diagnosing and planning treatment based on the xray.

It may look like 2 minutes to you, but it's not....

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Never mind the fact that that X-ray has to be stored, kept safe, and digitally backed up for at least 7 years.

discombobulate

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

You're paying for 3 things here;

The 2 minutes of clinical time to take the xray

The xray machinery involved costing tens of thousands

The dentists time, knowledge and training in reading, diagnosing and planning treatment based on the xray.

It may look like 2 minutes to you, but it's not....

So whats the difference between a small xray and a large xray?

I'm more annoyed that I wasn't told the cost more than anything. I had an x-ray on my teeth a few years ago but had a medical card at the time which must have covered it. He just said after the checkup "we'll just do an x-ray to make sure there's nothing to worry about". I took it as being part of the standard checkup.

Snowie

My dental fees for this year are 6k ...

discombobulate

Jalen Greasy Spoon wrote: »

Never mind the fact that that X-ray has to be stored, kept safe, and digitally backed up for at least 7 years.

Ah come on now. Break down those costs to me. It wasn't even printed out so its an electronic file.

Fair enough the machine but backing up a bloody file doesn't cost anything! :rolleyes:

discombobulate

Snowie wrote: »

My dental fees for this year are 6k ...

Ouch. Based on a couple of friends that have had to get a lot done with their teeth i'd be out of the country for the work if I needed that.

tatli_lokma

discombobulate wrote: »

Ah come on now. Break down those costs to me. It wasn't even printed out so its an electronic file.

Fair enough the machine but backing up a bloody file doesn't cost anything! :rolleyes:

No but the equipment to do so costs money, as does the running costs of a business.

I understand that you were annoyed that they didn't make it clear ahead of time of the prices, and that is bad form, but to argue over the amount of time and value of the x-ray is a bit silly. It is what it is, it costs what it costs - nothing you can do about it.

If you were so annoyed at the 'hidden' cost, did you not say something at the time? They may have allowed you to pay it off in installments?

Dianthus

discombobulate wrote: »

So whats the difference between a small xray and a large xray?
I took it as being part of the standard checkup.

Small X-ray = bitewing or periapical. Used to check for decay,gum disease, heavily filled teeth,ect.
Large X-ray= OPG. Most commonly to check wisdom teeth/unerupted teeth, or extent of severe gum disease.

A large xray will not be a 6monthly or yearly occurrence, it's unlikely that you'll need another in 10 or 20 years, if that. .

btkm8unsl0w5r4

discombobulate wrote: »

Ah come on now. Break down those costs to me. It wasn't even printed out so its an electronic file.

Fair enough the machine but backing up a bloody file doesn't cost anything! :rolleyes:

Ok. Lets breakdown the things involved that cost money in that 2 minutes, the 10 minutes of admin involved before and after and the ongoing costs, yeah your only using that for a minute, or small storage amounts, but each little bit adds up.

OPG Machine (tends of thousands)
Computer to run OPG machine
Computer to run practice software.
Software for the X-ray machine.
Network infrastructure of the practice.
Practice management software to store the files.
NAS to store the data along with its UPS.
Cloud storage to backup the NAS or tape or hard-drive whatever needed for off-site backup.
Registration of X-ray equipment and annual inspections
Lead lining of X-ray room.
Trained nurse to take X-ray.
Trained dentist to read X-ray.
Reception people to make appointments and take payment.
Insurance for building.
Public Liability insurance.
Professional Indemnity insurance.
Light heat electricity phone and internet.
Rates.
Rent.
Clinical Waste disposal.
Consumables.
Dosimetery for staff.
Reasonable profit.
Long term storage.
Data Protection registration.
Professional body registration.

There is a lot too it, dentists don't make a huge amount on X-rays but do gleam a huge ammount of diagnostic information about your mouth. Even if there is nothing wrong a baseline record is always good to have in the future.

discombobulate

Little Ted wrote: »

No but the equipment to do so costs money, as does the running costs of a business.

I understand that you were annoyed that they didn't make it clear ahead of time of the prices, and that is bad form, but to argue over the amount of time and value of the x-ray is a bit silly. It is what it is, it costs what it costs - nothing you can do about it.

If you were so annoyed at the 'hidden' cost, did you not say something at the time? They may have allowed you to pay it off in installments?

That equipment is required anyway to store and backup standard dental records so is irrelevant to that cost of an x-ray.

I don't doubt the expertise etc. just the way it was done.

I'm not stuck for the money i'd just like to have known that what I presumed was costing me €35 altogether would cost an additional €55.

I still don't know what the difference is between the €20 and €55 x-ray....

bladespin

Not picking any side but dental costs seem to be frightening here, the simplest procedure runs into hundreds easily from what I've seen.

Dianthus

discombobulate wrote: »

I still don't know what the difference is between the €20 and €55 x-ray....

I posted on this a few minutes ago;)

davo10

bladespin wrote: »

Not picking any side but dental costs seem to be frightening here, the simplest procedure runs into hundreds easily from what I've seen.

Can you give an example of the simple procedures?

OP a small x ray is one that shows a single tooth, a large one shows the whole mouth with all its teeth and supporting structures, two very different x ray machines, procedures and costs. All clinics have the small x ray machines, many do not have the large ones and refer to other clinics for them. My large digital x ray machine cost me just over €40k, but it is invaluable for diagnosis, wisdom teeth, gum disease, implants etc.

At an initial check up, you could have 10 small x rays at €20 each or one large one at €55. Which is better value?

discombobulate

Jalen Greasy Spoon wrote: »

Ok. Lets breakdown the things involved that cost money in that 2 minutes, the 10 minutes of admin involved before and after and the ongoing costs, yeah your only using that for a minute, or small storage amounts, but each little bit adds up.

OPG Machine (tends of thousands)
Computer to run OPG machine
Computer to run practice software.
Software for the X-ray machine.
Network infrastructure of the practice.
Practice management software to store the files.
NAS to store the data along with its UPS.
Cloud storage to backup the NAS or tape or hard-drive whatever needed for off-site backup.
Registration of X-ray equipment and annual inspections
Lead lining of X-ray room.
Trained nurse to take X-ray.
Trained dentist to read X-ray.
Reception people to make appointments and take payment.
Insurance for building.
Public Liability insurance.
Professional Indemnity insurance.
Light heat electricity phone and internet.
Rates.
Rent.
Clinical Waste disposal.
Consumables.
Dosimetery for staff.
Reasonable profit.
Long term storage.
Data Protection registration.
Professional body registration.

There is a lot too it, dentists don't make a huge amount on X-rays but do gleam a huge ammount of diagnostic information about your mouth. Even if there is nothing wrong a baseline record is always good to have in the future.

Your point was purely for storing the x-ray data for 7 years which is minuscule as all of the above are required irrespective. I'm not doubting the cost of the machine, dentist, overheads, healthy profit etc. which are 99.9% of the cost.

Again my point was i'd like to have known that it would cost me €55 so I could have politely said no thanks as in all likelihood I won't be back to that dentist anyway not because of the service just that they were close to where i'm working for a few weeks.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

In answer to your question then, if we are not aloud to expound on our points is yes that sounds like a normal fee for a panoramic X-ray.

In my practice patients who refuse essential X-rays are basically tying my hands behind my back and blindfolding me, so unfortunately without the required diagnostic test I cannot treat them. I don't charge separately for them given that, but my consultation fee reflects that.

bladespin

davo10 wrote: »

Can you give an example of the simple procedures?

In my case a filling that cost over €140 in the end.

My oh needs both wisdom teeth extracted (a more complicated procedure IMO) and we're looking at a bill of around €500 or more depending, when you're close to the breadline a cost like that will put the fear of god into you, I was never more afraid of going to the dentist than I am now.

Dianthus

bladespin wrote: »

In my case a filling that cost over €140 in the end.

My oh needs both wisdom teeth extracted (a more complicated procedure IMO) and we're looking at a bill of around €500 or more depending, when you're close to the breadline a cost like that will put the fear of god into you, I was never more afraid of going to the dentist than I am now.

A €140 filling is not a simple one, it's likely huge, & probably
needs a crown.

Infected impacted wisdom teeth, you really have no control over, & to be fair, they generally are fairly notorious for causing issues:eek:
It's like never again going to your doctor after them telling you that you have an ingrown toenail/cancer/bulging disc (something needing treatment costing money, anyway). Shoot the messenger?!

bladespin

Dianthus wrote: »

A €140 filling is not a simple one, it's likely huge, & probably
needs a crown.

No crown and I wasn't told it was huge or anything like, in fact I was told it was straightforward and was done in less than an hour.

Dianthus wrote: »

Infected impacted wisdom teeth, you really have no control over, & to be fair, they generally are fairly notorious for causing issues:eek:
It's like never again going to your doctor after them telling you that you have an ingrown toenail/cancer/bulging disc (something needing treatment costing money, anyway). Shoot the messenger?!

You may be right but I've never been to the doctor yet that it cost anything like as much, must be just lucky. :rolleyes:

tatli_lokma

bladespin wrote: »

You may be right but I've never been to the doctor yet that it cost anything like as much, must be just lucky. :rolleyes:

But you wouldn't go to a GP for something that is in essence minor surgery, requiring anasthetic and possibly sedation. Of the few minor surgery clinics that there are, some procedures are quite expensive. And as mentioned earlier it is not simply a matter of time, but expertise.

I had 2 wisdom teeth extracted, but they weren't infected. It literally took 15 mins, and was pretty quick and relatively painless thanks to the skill of my dentist. IIRC it was about €200, but I got some money from PRSI and then put it towards my tax credits at the end of the year.

Also, shop around. A dentist in one part of Dublin could have very high operating expenses, or be part of a franchise which sets the costs. A dentist in another part of Dublin might own their premises and therefore have lower costs. Nothing to say you can't get value for money with dental treatment.

digzy

bladespin wrote: »

You may be right but I've never been to the doctor yet that it cost anything like as much, must be just lucky. :rolleyes:

Just to give you a comparison.........
My sis in law was suffering with severe back pain. Cant rem the diagnosis but in the end she had to use her private health insurance to have the operation carried out in the mater private which cost her 4k for the operation and 2 overnight stays PLUS whatever the insurance will contribute. She has to attend the consultant for a 'review' appointment tomorrow. Fee 260 euro! seems expensive compared to a one hour procedure with the dentist imho!

tatli_lokma

digzy wrote: »

Just to give you a comparison.........
My sis in law was suffering with severe back pain. Cant rem the diagnosis but in the end she had to use her private health insurance to have the operation carried out in the mater private which cost her 4k for the operation and 2 overnight stays PLUS whatever the insurance will contribute. She has to attend the consultant for a 'review' appointment tomorrow. Fee 260 euro! seems expensive compared to a one hour procedure with the dentist imho!

OP won't appreciate that comparison - apparently the time it takes for something is very crucial to his acceptance of the costs. Seems your sis-in-law got her moneys worth cos she got to stay overnight and everything!

Oral Surgeon

Little Ted wrote: »

OP won't appreciate that comparison - apparently the time it takes for something is very crucial to his acceptance of the costs. Seems your sis-in-law got her moneys worth cos she got to stay overnight and everything!

Patients are able to sleep over in my clinic if they are willing to give me a couple of grand a night.....!!

bladespin

digzy wrote: »

Just to give you a comparison.........
My sis in law was suffering with severe back pain. Cant rem the diagnosis but in the end she had to use her private health insurance to have the operation carried out in the mater private which cost her 4k for the operation and 2 overnight stays PLUS whatever the insurance will contribute. She has to attend the consultant for a 'review' appointment tomorrow. Fee 260 euro! seems expensive compared to a one hour procedure with the dentist imho!

Think you've missed my point completely, I'm not arguing whether dental costs are expensive compared to anything else, I've paid similar for repairs to my car for example (unfortunately) just that they are frightening.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Cost is relative to how much money you have and the value you place on something. You did say in all fairness that you never got charged as much in the doctors, and it was pointed out that the doctor didnt actually do a procedures and when they do its cost just as much. A simple examination with a dentist where no procedures are done usually take twice as long as a doctors consultation and cost about 25-40 euro, so less frightening than the doctor.

Clinical Dental tech

did the practice not have it prices displayed?

if the cost is such an issue why did you not get an estimate before any work was carried out?

bladespin

Jalen Greasy Spoon wrote: »

Cost is relative to how much money you have and the value you place on something. You did say in all fairness that you never got charged as much in the doctors, and it was pointed out that the doctor didnt actually do a procedures and when they do its cost just as much. A simple examination with a dentist where no procedures are done usually take twice as long as a doctors consultation and cost about 25-40 euro, so less frightening than the doctor.

€55 with my dentist for a check-up, that's €15 more than my doctor lol, anyway as I said I'm sure dentists offer outrageously great value but the thoughts of a dentist bill frightens me, that's not up for debate.