Atheist church

iMyself

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/03/atheist-church-sunday-assembly-islington

Following on from my previous disgust at how atheism is becoming a godless religion. This takes the biscuit.

Corkfeen

Three hundred people meet and it becomes a large-scale church of atheism? Personally I'd prefer to go to a TED talk.

Dades

Whatever floats your boat. Sounds like a bit of craic, but not something I'd be arsed with.

Points that should be noted:

• It's not a church
• The people that turn up are not part a congregation (in the implied meaning of the word...)
• And, no, atheism is not a religion.

kylith

Oh please, if you're going to call a meeting a 'church' then the annual Agricultural Show is a Food Church, and a book club is a Literary Church.

Corkfeen

Dades wrote: »

Whatever floats your boat. Sounds like a bit of craic, but not something I'd be arsed with.

Points that should be noted:

• It's not a church
• The people that turn up are not part a congregation (in the implied meaning of the word...)
• And, no, atheism is not a religion.

It does genuinely sound like a slightly modified version of a TED talk. With some Stevie Wonder thrown in for good measure......

iMyself

As described by one of the organisers:

a godless congregation that meets … to hear great talks, sing songs and generally celebrate life

I would go to a carol service or a friend's wedding, and there would be so much about it that I really liked – the togetherness, the rituals – but I just couldn't get past the God bit.

He is setting out to recreate many aspects of the church, but without the God.

I wouldn't compare this to TED. TED lecturers are talking about a specific expertise, sharing their knowledge in much the same way as a university lecture.

Geomy

Sounds ok some people like get togethers,more people like being solitary.

As long as it doesn't turn into an us vs them situation...

Galvasean

Run by two comedians? Free comedy show eh?

magicbastarder

here's a non-atheist church, but they know how to pick their saints.

http://www.coltranechurch.org/

iMyself

Dades wrote: »

• The people that turn up are not part a congregation (in the implied meaning of the word...)

Why so? That is exactly what it is surely?

Dades wrote: »

• And, no, atheism is not a religion.

The definition of religion does not necessarily involve belief in a supernatural creator, although I totally agree that that would be the common definition.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.


the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

I've already debated the "moral code governing the conduct of human affairs" aspect as being set out by Atheist Ireland, but this most definitely takes it to another level.

Delirium

the definition you quoted starts with "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe". Atheism doesn't meet that definition, so how can it be a religion?

pH

iMyself wrote: »

As described by one of the organisers:





He is setting out to recreate many aspects of the church, but without the God.

I wouldn't compare this to TED. TED lecturers are talking about a specific expertise, sharing their knowledge in much the same way as a university lecture.

Just to be clear here.

They don't don't have lectures about a specific expertise so it definitely isn't a TED talk, and they don't worship a God but is definitely is a church.

Bannasidhe

pH wrote: »

Just to be clear here.

They don't don't have lectures about a specific expertise so it definitely isn't a TED talk, and they don't worship a God but is definitely is a church.

If they sell food and beverages does that make it a cafe?

iMyself

koth wrote: »

the definition you quoted starts with "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe". Atheism doesn't meet that definition, so how can it be a religion?

yes I agree with you, it doesn't. The point is there are people and organisations out there which are using atheism as a label for their own organisations to the extent where atheism has become more than simply a lack of belief in deities, to something which has a belief structure, predefined morals and now it seems weekly congregations.

seamus

Sounds like a bunch of smelly hippies to me.

This kind of thing has been going on for years, I'm not sure why it's now suddenly gained an "atheist" tag to make it appear like something it's not.

Why so? That is exactly what it is surely?

"Congregations" typically congregate to worship. There is no worship in this group, only celebration, so this is not a congregation. It also implies some form of common link through the group. Which there doesn't seem to be here. No more than the people who go to Starbucks are a congregation.

Bannasidhe

iMyself wrote: »

yes I agree with you, it doesn't. The point is there are people and organisations out there which are using atheism as a label for their own organisations to the extent where atheism has become more than simply a lack of belief in deities, to something which has a belief structure, predefined morals and now it seems weekly congregations.

Or they are taking the Michael...or it's a PR stunt...

I could refer to my house as a Palace - that won't make it one. It will still be a 3 bed end of terrace.

iMyself

pH wrote: »

Just to be clear here.

They don't don't have lectures about a specific expertise so it definitely isn't a TED talk, and they don't worship a God but is definitely is a church.

No I wouldn't call it a church because my understanding is that a church is a religious place of worship. Although the article does describe it as "part atheist church". There is no denying, and I'm surprised (or maybe I shouldn't really be going by past debates on here) that people cannot see the similarity between this congregational gathering and a church.

Even so, the fact that you have a lack of belief in something somehow gives you a common belief, a common anything at all, to the extent where you can congregate with fellow no believers is pushing it a bit far.

Knasher

iMyself wrote: »

Even so, the fact that you have a lack of belief in something somehow gives you a common belief, a common anything at all, to the extent where you can congregate with fellow no believers is pushing it a bit far.

For some people their entire social circle might revolve around their church, not so much in the RCC in Ireland, but to a huge extent in America and possible in the UK but to a lesser extent. So it isn't surprising that people might try to preserve that part of their lives in some way, when they are abandoning the rest of their faith. I don't understand why this bothers you. If they want to call it a church, either as a bit of humor or in all seriousness, it doesn't make atheism a religion.

Frank Bullitt

Is an Atheist Church not just a pub?

Sarky

Sometimes it's a café, or a LAN party.

Cork boy 55

Atheists need to seize the oriental mystery cults buildings after the awakening
and turn them into community centers of environmental scientific atheist

Earth-labs where earth citizens can gather and build their communities in a sustainable fashion.

Sarky

Sure thing. But only after this awakening. And you go first.

Nodin

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Atheists need to seize the oriental mystery cults buildings after the awakening
and turn them into community centers of environmental scientific atheist

Earth-labs where earth citizens can gather and build their communities in a sustainable fashion.

Why do you post this crap again?

Zombrex

I really don't get the current trend, which seems mostly to be coming out of England, of needing to use religious terms to describe atheist events which are completely non-religious. So we had that 10 Commandements for Atheists thing, and then the atheist religion book, and now this atheist church.

I can only assume it is atheists who haven't fully worked out that atheism is a religion in the way not collecting stamps is a hobby. When my softball team meet and play a game we don't refer to it as "stamp collecting without the stamps".

Zombrex

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Atheists need to seize the oriental mystery cults buildings after the awakening

That doesn't make any sense. After the awakening everyone will be an atheist, so why would we need to seize anything.

iMyself

Knasher wrote: »

For some people their entire social circle might revolve around their church, not so much in the RCC in Ireland, but to a huge extent in America and possible in the UK but to a lesser extent. So it isn't surprising that people might try to preserve that part of their lives in some way, when they are abandoning the rest of their faith. I don't understand why this bothers you. If they want to call it a church, either as a bit of humor or in all seriousness, it doesn't make atheism a religion.

It bothers me because by declaring myself atheist as a way of describing my lack of belief in deities, for some (and it is fast becoming popular opinion) I am automatically categorised as belonging to part of a belief system. I agree, this is in their opinion and not mine, but you eventually get to the stage where atheism means something else and it is in fact your own definition which is wrong, so you are no longer an atheist. This is what I have already been told by people on here. This is not a secular society because if you don't play along and join the "atheist church", then you're back to square one where you are excluded because you do not fit in any of the pigeon holes.

for example, the census listing all the religions and then "atheist" as alternative system rather than a "none of the above".

Rev Hellfire

iMyself wrote: »

you eventually get to the stage where atheism means something else and it is in fact your own definition which is wrong, so you are no longer an atheist. This is what I have already been told by people on here.

Where have people on this forum ever said that atheism is anything more than a non-belief in deities? As a group they've been less than receptive to ideas like athiesm+ or other attempts to tack on additional requirements.

iMyself wrote: »

for example, the census listing all the religions and then "atheist" as alternative system rather than a "none of the above".

Atheists are a statistically significant group it doesn't make sense to group them into a "none of the above" which would also include a myriad of other religious cults and belief groups.

Just Like Heaven

iMyself wrote: »

for example, the census listing all the religions and then "atheist" as alternative system rather than a "none of the above".

"None" perhaps, but "none of the above" doesn't necessarily mean atheism.

wench

iMyself wrote: »

for example, the census listing all the religions and then "atheist" as alternative system rather than a "none of the above".

The census question actually listed several religions, then a write in box, then "no religion".
Where "Atheist" was given as a religion, it was a voluntary write in answer.

pH

wench wrote: »

The census question actually listed several religions, then a write in box, then "no religion".
Where "Atheist" was given as a religion, it was a voluntary write in answer.

iMyself is raging against thoughts which might be in other people's heads and imaginary census questions!

PopePalpatine

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Atheists need to seize the oriental mystery cults buildings after the awakening
and turn them into community centers of environmental scientific atheist

Earth-labs where earth citizens can gather and build their communities in a sustainable fashion.

Can I have some of what you're smoking? :pac: