The 2013 Lions Captain may be Irish yet not the Irish Captain

my friend

... an interesting possibility if O'Driscoll stamps his signature on the England game as he did in the Millennium stadium Saturday

Lapin

Could well happen.

After all, Paul O'Connell captained the Lions 4 years ago while O'Driscoll was captain of Ireland.

its_phil

my friend wrote: »

... an interesting possibility if O'Driscoll stamps his signature on the England game as he did in the Millennium stadium Saturday

Paul O'Connell in 2009 so not really

Hagz

O'Driscoll is still odds on favourite for the captaincy in my opinion, but losing the Irish captaincy won't help his cause. Disappointed doesn't seem to be the appropriate word to describe his reaction do it, apparently he was fuming. But I can't see anyone more suited. He's the perfect candidate in my opinion.

Sundy

I just hope he tours. Otherwise because I'm out here in oz I will never get to see him play in a test match again.

pickarooney

He'd been captain of his country for years but not of his club.

totallegend

Martin Johnson was not England captain in 97

locum-motion

I'd be surprised if there's an Irish captain this time. We had the last two. I'd say it will 'rotate' to another nation. It's probably Wales' "turn" to get it, so it could be Warburton.

Working backwards, it's been Irl, Irl, Eng, Eng, Sco, Sco, Irl, Eng, Wal, Irl...

Last time it was a Welshman was in the mid 70s.

Hype710

I've maintained Rory Best has an outside chance and his performance at the weekend backs up that view. Unassuming, uncompromising, leads by example and is so far ahead of his competition.

little173

Sundy wrote: »

I just hope he tours. Otherwise because I'm out here in oz I will never get to see him play in a test match again.

I think it would take something extraordianary for him not to go tbh, and woudl be a massive call by any coach not to take him even after 1 match. 2 of the next 4 games will be vs Sco and Italy so unless he has a shocker vs eng and fr which cant really see he will go for sure. And probably as captain.

clsmooth

I wouldnt criticise Kidney too much for taking the captaincy off. The manner he did it in was more important, but none of us know exactly he went about it. I don't think it should impact on his Lions captaincy credentials. After all he's been a top level captain over the past 10 years. He's only getting back now after being pretty much injured since/before the 2011WC so I think it was a good decision to take it off of him and let him concentrate on his game and fitness. The sad thing is he won't have been able to saviour his last time leading the national team out onto the pitch as he wouldnt have realised it would have been his last time. But sport is ruthless, and not even BOD is immune to it.

I'd think he'd be an excellent captain again for the Lions. Warburton has showed very little leadership since the WC, and shouldnt be near the squad let alone team on current form. Robshaw is unlikely to start. I don't think Scotland have any one of the captaincy pedigree of BOD. All in all, I think BOD still has a great chance if he can come through the next 4 games unscathed and playing well.

clsmooth

Hype710 wrote: »

I've maintained Rory Best has an outside chance and his performance at the weekend backs up that view. Unassuming, uncompromising, leads by example and is so far ahead of his competition.

He's an excellent player. I've only really appreciated him since the WC, but I think his performances from then have been consistently world class. If he can nail his darts (one of the few weaknesses in his game, occassionally he can go awry but then again so do most hookers), he's one of the top hookers in the world for me.

twinytwo

locum-motion wrote: »

I'd be surprised if there's an Irish captain this time. We had the last two. I'd say it will 'rotate' to another nation. It's probably Wales' "turn" to get it, so it could be Warburton.

Working backwards, it's been Irl, Irl, Eng, Eng, Sco, Sco, Irl, Eng, Wal, Irl...

Last time it was a Welshman was in the mid 70s.

You assume Warbutron will be starting....Assuming SOB isnt playing 6 for the lions... it would be madness to not pick him at 7. Even gatland cant hate us that much.

twinytwo

clsmooth wrote: »

I wouldnt criticise Kidney too much for taking the captaincy off. The manner he did it in was more important, but none of us know exactly he went about it. I don't think it should impact on his Lions captaincy credentials. After all he's been a top level captain over the past 10 years. He's only getting back now after being pretty much injured since/before the 2011WC so I think it was a good decision to take it off of him and let him concentrate on his game and fitness. The sad thing is he won't have been able to saviour his last time leading the national team out onto the pitch as he wouldnt have realised it would have been his last time. But sport is ruthless, and not even BOD is immune to it.

I'd think he'd be an excellent captain again for the Lions. Warburton has showed very little leadership since the WC, and shouldnt be near the squad let alone team on current form. Robshaw is unlikely to start. I don't think Scotland have any one of the captaincy pedigree of BOD. All in all, I think BOD still has a great chance if he can come through the next 4 games unscathed and playing well.

I would have thought that the captain should be up to the players and not the coach, taking it off Drico makes no sence to me. The line of succession to me would have been Drico>POC>Best>Heaslip

Otacon

twinytwo wrote: »

You assume Warbutron will be starting....Assuming SOB isnt playing 6 for the lions... it would be madness to not pick him at 7. Even gatland cant hate us that much.

Warburton isn't the best 7 in Wales, never mind the rest of the Isles.

clsmooth

twinytwo wrote: »

I would have thought that the captain should be up to the players and not the coach, taking it off Drico makes no sence to me. The line of succession to me would have been Drico>POC>Best>Heaslip

BOD has had his injury problems and missed the 6N and AIs. Thats 7/8 games he missed last year. POC is the same and IMO is no longer a guaranteed starter. I said it after the AIs, I would be disappointed if he was straight back into the 15 when fit. McCarthy and Ryan are a good unit. Best is unlucky as he was injured for the AIs and with the emergence of Strauss who we could assume would at least be getting 15/20 mins from the bench. You want your captain to be playing the full 80 and that would be shooting ourselves in the foot a bit when we have either Strauss and Cronin to make an impact from the bench. Heaslip has a great injury record, and is a guaranteed starter. He's lead Leinster with success in the past.

For what its worth, I'd have given it to Best, but I can see why Kidney didn't. Regardless, Best is still a leader within the team, as is BOD.

rchendz92

Otacon wrote: »

Warburton isn't the best 7 in Wales, never mind the rest of the Isles.

This...I've never got the hype around him. Performed well against Ireland and some some lower quality opposition in the world cup, wasn't great vs. South Africa then lost his head in his country's most important match in years. Spent half of the grand slam 6N injured while Lydiate, Faletau and the backs ran the show and has shown no form whatsoever this season. All hail King Warburton, ruler of the Kingdom of the Overated.

BOD for Lions captain would be a fitting send off to the greatest NH player in my lifetime, although I personally think Robshaw could get it - would do a great job I'm sure.

clsmooth

rchendz92 wrote: »

This...I've never got the hype around him. Performed well against Ireland and some some lower quality opposition in the world cup, wasn't great vs. South Africa then lost his head in his country's most important match in years. Spent half of the grand slam 6N injured while Lydiate, Faletau and the backs ran the show and has shown no form whatsoever this season. All hail King Warburton, ruler of the Kingdom of the Overated.

BOD for Lions captain would be a fitting send off to the greatest NH player in my lifetime, although I personally think Robshaw could get it - would do a great job I'm sure.

I can see him being a midweek captain, but I cant see him getting in the test 15 barring injuries to Tipuric/SOB. And then of course Warburton :rolleyes: Theres so much competition in the back row, it might be a better decision to give captaincy to a guaranteed starter. When do they name the captain? Do they do it at the time of the squad announcement or before? Its at the start of April right?

Fishooks13

BOD now 15/8 favorite to get the job. Warburton out to 3/1. Heaslip 7/2

clsmooth

Fishooks13 wrote: »

BOD now 15/8 favorite to get the job. Warburton out to 3/1. Heaslip 7/2

Its crazy how quickly things can change with regards to the Lions. A few good games and you're on the plane, and the opposite too. A win for Wales vs England and France and suddenly Warburton might be the peoples choice again.

crisco10

I think it's more and more likely it will be a "Tour" captain as opposed to team captain. Looking at the potential captains, none of them are nailed on starters (or it would be silly to put them down as such)

Heaslip (close call between him and Faletau, Morgan could bolt)
BOD (Stiff competition from Davies and Manu T)
Robshaw (Back row berths are hotly contested)
Warburton (see above, and he isn't in great form)


Did I miss any "real" contenders? Obviously people like Best, POC and some Scots are bolters

Fishooks13

At the moment two of the most nailed on starters are Best and Sexton. But I really don't think anyone will come close to BOD if he maintains form until the tour.

Tualagi would easily shift to 12 and could make a very nice partnership. Davies on the other hand is a more natural 12 imo

Gambas

locum-motion wrote: »

I'd be surprised if there's an Irish captain this time. We had the last two. I'd say it will 'rotate' to another nation. It's probably Wales' "turn" to get it, so it could be Warburton.

Working backwards, it's been Irl, Irl, Eng, Eng, Sco, Sco, Irl, Eng, Wal, Irl...

Last time it was a Welshman was in the mid 70s.

A 'Welsh' head coach weighs against that though.

There's a lot moving in O'Driscoll's favour at the moment. Warburton hasn't performed, and he has just trumped Davies in the match up between the two best 13's. If England win the grand slam Robshaw will get it IMO, but if they don't and O'Driscoll puts in another couple of solid shifts particularly against Tualagi, I think he'll get it.

pickarooney

Ashton for captain?

clsmooth

pickarooney wrote: »

Ashton for captain?

I'd prefer if they made him room with Tuilagi

locum-motion

twinytwo wrote: »

You assume Warbutron will be starting....Assuming SOB isnt playing 6 for the lions... it would be madness to not pick him at 7. Even gatland cant hate us that much.

No, I'm not. I only said it could be Warburton, not that it will be.

case885

I think its rubbish to say its not irelands turn to have a captain, decision making shouldnt be down to this you have to pick on form and whos the best leader for the team and in my opinion its BOD. Warburton wouldnt stand a chance against him he shouldnt even be starting for wales never mind captaining a Lions team. Didnt like the way kidney handled the irish captaincy he knew driscoll was coming back and some may disagree but i dont think it was necessary to take it off him.