Fine Gael TD threatening Travellers?

franktheplank

I generally avoid reading the Irish Times because it's a load of horse manure but my housemate gets it regularly and I find myself flicking through for the syndicated sports and world coverage.

In last Friday's edition I came across an opinion piece by Fine Gael TD Charlie Flanagan, here. Now it's mostly the usual right wing, hate filled clap trap, portraying an incredibly simplistic and hugely outdated functionalist view of society with the settled community as innocent majority and the travelling community as deviant underclass. So far, so typical but I came across this little paragraph, which stopped me in my tracks.

"Designating a group within society as separate is also dangerous. If European history of the 20th century has taught us anything it has taught us that lesson. The Traveller organisations which support the granting of separate status should reflect very carefully on their arguments and on the history of Ireland."

Now if anyone else said that I'd probably just dismiss it as moronic but putting it into context i can only see it as a very nasty threat. He can only be talking about the holocaust when he talks about the the lessons to be learnt from the dangers of segregation in 20th century European history. A holocaust in which between 250,000 and 1,500,000 Gypsy's perished in Nazi deathcamps.

Now I understand that the Irish travellers and European Gypsy's are distinct groups, but nonetheless they have many shared cultural attributes and to this day maintain political affiliation. At that level alone, it's hugely insensitive.

What makes it threatening is the historical links between Fine Gael and European fascism. You will find some academics who claim this link is tenuous (I'd hazard a guess where there political allegiances lie) but you can't deny the historical facts which put this association in people's minds, and thus makes a statement like this threatening. I showed it to a couple of mates and they all immediately thought that coming from a 'Blueshirt' it really is a very loathsome and sinister statement. What does AH think?

Biggins

O' goodie... grabs popcorn and waits...

SEPT 23 1989

Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted

Brain Stroking

Not PC at all but, from my experience of growing up in a town with a sizeable amount of travellers, they are nothing but a scourge on our society.

Always robbing, always on the make. Wont do a day's work and scrounge off the state.

MadsL

In before reference to "Blueshirts"

Heroditas

Godwin's Law in the opening post. Impressive.

franktheplank

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Not PC at all but, from my experience of growing up in a town with a sizeable amount of travellers, they are nothing but a scourge on our society.

Always robbing, always on the make. Wont do a day's work and scrounge off the state.

That's not really what I was asking.

Brain Stroking

Biggins wrote: »

O' goodie... grabs popcorn and waits...

You say this at the start of every thread Biggins it seems. Except when it is something about the government. Then we get a list of 100 links

AnonoBoy

Are we still going on about Travellers?

I thought Hector sorted all that out on telly a few weeks back.

Ranicand

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Not PC at all but, from my experience of growing up in a town with a sizeable amount of travellers, they are nothing but a scourge on our society.

Always robbing, always on the make. Wont do a day's work and scrounge off the state.

Guess what the truth is not PC.

You have to be fair and look on the positive side 99% give the rest of them a bad name.

franktheplank

Heroditas wrote: »

Godwin's Law in the opening post. Impressive.

Well I don't see what else he can be talking about in that quote, if not the holocaust?

Brain Stroking

franktheplank wrote: »

That's not really what I was asking.

The question you ask is moot as they shouldnt be given the time of day. What have they ever added to Ireland? Answer: nothing

MadsL

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Not PC at all but, from my experience of growing up in a town with a sizeable amount of travellers, they are nothing but a scourge on our society.

Always robbing, always on the make. Wont do a day's work and scrounge off the state.

Translation

I'm not a racist but.....[hatespeech]

Death and Taxes

Jesus H Christ OP, How did you get from Travellers to FG threatening to open liquidation camps in such a short space!
Thats some bit of creative join the dots you did there!

Brain Stroking

MadsL wrote: »

Translation

I'm not a racist but.....[hatespeech]

See that's the problem. If they werent thieving scumbags i wouldnt have a problem. But they are, so i do. Not racist, more observational.

smash

D'ya like degs boss...

Ranicand

MadsL wrote: »

Translation

I'm not a racist but.....[hatespeech]

Translation it is bloody true.

Why don't you volunteer to have a halting site next to your home?

Nodin

franktheplank wrote: »

I generally avoid reading the Irish Times because it's a load of horse manure but my housemate gets it regularly and I find myself flicking through for the syndicated sports and world coverage.

In last Friday's edition I came across an opinion piece by Fine Gael TD Charlie Flanagan, here. Now it's mostly the usual right wing, hate filled clap trap, portraying an incredibly simplistic and hugely outdated functionalist view of society with the settled community as innocent majority and the travelling community as deviant underclass. So far, so typical but I came across this little paragraph, which stopped me in my tracks.

"Designating a group within society as separate is also dangerous. If European history of the 20th century has taught us anything it has taught us that lesson. The Traveller organisations which support the granting of separate status should reflect very carefully on their arguments and on the history of Ireland."

Now if anyone else said that I'd probably just dismiss it as moronic but putting it into context i can only see it as a very nasty threat. He can only be talking about the holocaust when he talks about the the lessons to be learnt from the dangers of segregation in 20th century European history. A holocaust in which between 250,000 and 1,500,000 Gypsy's perished in Nazi deathcamps.

Now I understand that the Irish travellers and European Gypsy's are distinct groups, but nonetheless they have many shared cultural attributes and to this day maintain political affiliation. At that level alone, it's hugely insensitive.

What makes it threatening is the historical links between Fine Gael and European fascism. You will find some academics who claim this link is tenuous (I'd hazard a guess where there political allegiances lie) but you can't deny the historical facts which put this association in people's minds, and thus makes a statement like this threatening. I showed it to a couple of mates and they all immediately thought that coming from a 'Blueshirt' it really is a very loathsome and sinister statement. What does AH think?

Considering his oul fellahs views on the Jews, its not that suprising.

franktheplank

Brain Stroking wrote: »

The question you ask is moot as they shouldnt be given the time of day. What have they ever added to Ireland? Answer: nothing

That's for another thread which you can start if you like (i think it won't last so long).

Doc Ruby

Most of the travellers I know vigorously assert their nationality as Irish, and to be honest I've no problem with that. Which are the groups looking for a seperate status?

MadsL

Brain Stroking wrote: »

See that's the problem. If they werent thieving scumbags i wouldnt have a problem. But they are, so i do. Not racist, more observational.

See there's the problem. Failurre to understand that your "observations" are in fact hatespeech.

tayto lover

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Not PC at all but, from my experience of growing up in a town with a sizeable amount of travellers, they are nothing but a scourge on our society.

Always robbing, always on the make. Wont do a day's work and scrounge off the state.

Are you writing poetry?
That last line rhymes very well.

Brain Stroking

franktheplank wrote: »

That's for another thread which you can start if you like (i think it won't last so long).

Fair enough Frank but all this thread will likely do is skirt around the elephant in the room. However, i take your point.

Biggins

Brain Stroking wrote: »

You say this at the start of every thread Biggins it seems. Except when it is something about the government. Then we get a list of 100 links

I like popcorn!
(And jellybabies)
I know, its a crime.

Brain Stroking

MadsL wrote: »

See there's the problem. Failurre to understand that your "observations" are in fact hatespeech.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about so i wont rise to it.

franktheplank

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Jesus H Christ OP, How did you get from Travellers to FG threatening to open liquidation camps in such a short space!
Thats some bit of creative join the dots you did there!

What else can he be talking about in that quote if not the Holocaust. In any article if the author made a reference like that I'd think they were referring to the Holocaust, what else can it be?

MadsL

Ranicand wrote: »

Translation it is bloody true.

Why don't you volunteer to have a halting site next to your home?

I used to live next to a certain horsefair.

Carry on.

Ranicand

MadsL wrote: »

See there's the problem. Failurre to understand that your "observations" are in fact hatespeech.

Hate speech trying to bully people by sticking them with a name.

I hate them and I make no bones about it.

I have had many bad experiences with them.

Brain Stroking

Ranicand wrote: »

Hate speech trying to bully people by sticking them with a name.

I hate them and I make no bones about it.

I have had many bad experiences with them.

Me too. My friend's father dies before xmas and they live in a quiet rural area down a cul de sac with one house on it ie theirs. The day after the funeral the travellers pulled up at the end of the cul de sac scoping the place. That's what you're dealing with. Utter filth.

franktheplank

Nodin wrote: »

Considering his oul fellahs views on the Jews, its not that suprising.

Wow I just googled that, yikes, he clearly didn't pick it up off the floor as we say round here.

MadsL

Brain Stroking wrote: »

You obviously don't know what you're talking about so i wont rise to it.

Rise to it? Why not just accept the description. You labelled one entire community as "nothing but a scourge on our society", frankly that is 'hatespeech' and the next jump is easy to see in the OPs post.

Why not admit what you are instead of hiding with the "it's not PC <chortle>" nonsense.

It's not PC of me to call racists, racists. But I do. <chortle>.

thiarfearr

Why do they want seperate status and what do they get out of it?

MadsL

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Me too. My friend's father dies before xmas and they live in a quiet rural area down a cul de sac with one house on it ie theirs. The day after the funeral the travellers pulled up at the end of the cul de sac scoping the place. That's what you're dealing with. Utter filth.

Translation

"I happened to spot some travellers the day after a funeral, obviously they were up to no-good as they were travellers. Travellers are filth"

That's not an observation. It's a prejudice. Plain and simple.

Brain Stroking

MadsL wrote: »

Rise to it? Why not just accept the description. You labelled one entire community as "nothing but a scourge on our society", frankly that is 'hatespeech' and the next jump is easy to see in the OPs post.

Why not admit what you are instead of hiding with the "it's not PC <chortle>" nonsense.

It's not PC of me to call racists, racists. But I do. <chortle>.

But i am not racist. They do not add anything to society. If they did i wouldnt criticise. But they don't.

Hope you enjoyed your horse fair which is actually the one day of the year they might make some money honestly.

Er, chortle?

franktheplank

thiarfearr wrote: »

Why do they want seperate status and what do they get out of it?

I think I know what Charlie Flanagan would like to see them get out of it.....

Ranicand

MadsL wrote: »

Rise to it? Why not just accept the description. You labelled one entire community as "nothing but a scourge on our society", frankly that is 'hatespeech' and the next jump is easy to see in the OPs post.

Why not admit what you are instead of hiding with the "it's not PC <chortle>" nonsense.

It's not PC of me to call racists, racists. But I do. <chortle>.

A community?

You mean a nest.

There are feuds between them all the time any event which they have they end up fighting and wreaking establishments.

Look at how the majority of them behave and it's their own bloody fault everybody hates them.

Being racist means you favor your own kind that means everybody is racist.

I have NEVER see one of these people working NEVER.

However I have seen them committing crime countless times.

The filthy scum go and get drunk on Sundays they leave hordes of their children at the Square in Tallaght causing all kinds of problems.

These are facts.

Brain Stroking

MadsL wrote: »

Translation

"I happened to spot some travellers the day after a funeral, obviously they were up to no-good as they were travellers. Travellers are filth"

That's not an observation. It's a prejudice. Plain and simple.

Er no, that is not what i said. I wasn't there. My friend's mother was. Alone. And very frightened.

Tell me one positive contribution the travellers have made to a place they reside. Very interested to hear. Give me a list aka Biggins. Surely i am so far wrong that there are plenty of good works to show me.

MadsL

Brain Stroking wrote: »

i am not racist. They do not add anything to society. If they did i wouldnt criticise. But they don't.

Rest my case. They.

SEPT 23 1989

I deal with loads of different nationalities in my line of business

people who came to Ireland ,work hard, pay tax and contribute to this society

but from experience i wont deal with that "community"

am i racist?

Brain Stroking

MadsL wrote: »

Rest my case. They.

Your case? "I live near a horse fair so you are incorrect". Good case Johnnie Cochrane.

Ranicand

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I deal with loads of different nationalities in my line of business

people who came to Ireland ,work hard, pay tax and contribute to this society

but from experience i wont deal with them

am i racist?

I work with Polish and people from a few other Eastern European nations and a couple of Arabs.

The longer these people are here the more Irish they become it is funny seeing Polish people starting to pick up and Irish accent.

All these people know to avoid the Travellers are they all racist too?

Death and Taxes

Brain Stroking wrote: »

But i am not racist. They do not add anything to society. If they did i wouldnt criticise. But they don't.

Hope you enjoyed your horse fair which is actually the one day of the year they might make some money honestly.

Er, chortle?

They added an Olympic Silver medal to our tally last year, why don't walk up to John Joe Nevin and tell him what you think of him and his kind to his face, tell him what a stain he is on society!

dr.bollocko

Every thread on this gets locked because every thread devolves into a discussion about travellers which has no relevance to the original material posted.

It is unfortunate. I don't enjoy shutting down discussion and it weighs heavy that we are consistently unable to approach this issue. Brain has been banned as he has crossed the line into outright traveller bashing.

It might be beneficial if the mere mention of the word "traveller" wasn't such a red rag but its interesting how deep this debate goes that every single thread we have on this constantly devolves to this state. A few bans and a stalemate until next week.