Is it illegal

taka

Im in the process of selling my house but im wanting to know is it illegal to pay family members some cash for helping me in the process with all stages of the build of a new house. You see most my family all work in the building trades and live in the north and said that they will do a weeks work for me for £200.

This is way below the min wage here in the south so im wanting to know an i breaking any laws seeing as its below the min wage here. They really said that theyd work for nothing, just aslong as its in the period when they have no work on thou i have this amount in my head just so they can get back with some food,cigs and few pints while their here.

Procrastastudy

taka wrote: »

Im in the process of selling my house but im wanting to know is it illegal to pay family members some cash for helping me in the process with all stages of the build of a new house. You see most my family all work in the building trades and live in the north and said that they will do a weeks work for me for £200.

This is way below the min wage here in the south so im wanting to know an i breaking any laws seeing as its below the min wage here. They really said that theyd work for nothing, just aslong as its in the period when they have no work on thou i have this amount in my head just so they can get back with some food,cigs and few pints while their here.

Min wage exclusions for family members. Legal assumption that you don't intend to create legal relations with family members. Very honest of you all to put it through tax... I'd just slip um a few quid and not tell anyone.

Also I'm pretty sure min wage doesnt apply to contractors, which is closer to what your suggesting than employees.

taka

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Min wage exclusions for family members. Legal assumption that you don't intend to create legal relations with family members. Very honest of you all to put it through tax... I'd just slip um a few quid and not tell anyone.

Also I'm pretty sure min wage doesnt apply to contractors, which is closer to what your suggesting than employees.

I am going to slip them the few quid and its up to them whether they pay tax or not. What about friends, if i slip them the few quid which will be way below min wage , will i be breaking any laws here. The reason i ask this is because between me, 2 uncles,1 cousin and a friend will [possibly be building my house come summer if everything else goes to plan. Ill be getting all the work done on the cheap at these rates and even thou no one will ever know what i pay them, i still want to know am i breaking any laws.

This will be the 2nd house ive built this way as i built one in 2003 and paid out in cash so id be abit worried incase i was breaking any laws and it crept up and bit me on the arse when i least expected it and get hit with a big tax bill.

Mucco

I'd be careful about paying anything. Not from a legal point of view, but more from a relationship point of view.
Psychologically, cash is treated very differently from gifts etc...
If you pay them cash, you take away their feeling of helping you out, being a good friend/cousin etc, and turn it into a transactional exchange. In which case, they could feel aggrieved that the amount of money you're paying is quite low.
You might be better off taking them out for those few pints yourself, paying for a nice meal or buying them that piece of furniture they wanted. This keeps the relationship in the friendly, gift territory. It also avoids any legal/tax bother.

M

taka

Mucco wrote: »

I'd be careful about paying anything. Not from a legal point of view, but more from a relationship point of view.
Psychologically, cash is treated very differently from gifts etc...
If you pay them cash, you take away their feeling of helping you out, being a good friend/cousin etc, and turn it into a transactional exchange. In which case, they could feel aggrieved that the amount of money you're paying is quite low.
You might be better off taking them out for those few pints yourself, paying for a nice meal or buying them that piece of furniture they wanted. This keeps the relationship in the friendly, gift territory. It also avoids any legal/tax bother.

M

I know theyd be well happy with this amount because they already get benefits in the north so its just really a top up to keep them going while theyre working. It also gets them away for a few weeks from nagging wives and you cant really put a price on that.

BuffyBot

Them claiming benefits and working puts an entirely different spin on things. Then yes, it may very well be illegal.

Eoin

taka wrote: »

I know theyd be well happy with this amount because they already get benefits in the north so its just really a top up to keep them going while theyre working. It also gets them away for a few weeks from nagging wives and you cant really put a price on that.

They need to check out the story with their welfare benefits entitlements, and you need to check out your obligations as an employer (PRSI etc). If neither of you are planning to do this, then it all sounds pretty dodgy.

taka

BuffyBot wrote: »

Them claiming benefits and working puts an entirely different spin on things. Then yes, it may very well be illegal.

I know what they are doing isnt lawabiding but i want to know would i be breaking the law with giving them money because if i am, i think ill just take up the offer of the free help.

taka

Eoin wrote: »

They need to check out the story with their welfare benefits entitlements, and you need to check out your obligations as an employer (PRSI etc). If neither of you are planning to do this, then it all sounds pretty dodgy.

Ill contact them during the week.

Max Power

They would be committing welfare fraud so yes it is illegal if you were to pay them cash.

fasttalkerchat

I wouldn't speak to the job centre about this at all. If they say you can't give them money while on benefits they could also say that by turning down the job, they were refusing work.

If they want to help, buy them dinner, few pints and fill the car up with petrol.

taka

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

They would be committing welfare fraud so yes it is illegal if you were to pay them cash.

yes i know this above but would i be breaking any laws

BuffyBot

We're not here to facilitate a) breaching of the law or b) legal advice being sought. I'm closing this off, and will let the local mods decide what sanctions, if any, they wish to take.

Mrs OBumble

Thanks BuffyBot.

The only reason I didn't close this initially was because it sounded like you might want to know how to make it legal.

Bottom line, we randoms here on the internet cannot give you legal advice.

Practically, there are a few sides to this.

Firstly, I don't think many individuals people engage employees to build houses. They let contracts, and the contractors take on any employees they need. So provided you're clear that you're letting contracts, not paying an hourly rate, then you'd probably be clear legally. (But of course I'm not a lawyer).

If you engage contractors (for whatever rate, relatives or otherwise), and they are signing somewhere as well, they may be committing welfare fraud. That is their concern, not yours.

But the interesting part comes if things go wrong: if there's an accident and someone gets hurt - who has the liability insurance? If the building is done wrong, and you're looking for compensation or even just replacement materials - who has the liability? If you contract a firm of builders, their rate is higher ... but they carry insurance for a reason.

And there may be some legal issues re who is allowed to do certain work here, eg can someone who is registered as an electrician in the North do work here? Personally I have no idea .. maybe there's a building forum where you could ask.

The more I think about it, this isn't really a work and jobs question at all.

So ... closed again. Good luck with your house.