Straw Bedded Sucklerhouse for small herd

Farm King

I am currently designing a small sucklerhouse consisting of 3 nr straw bedded cattle pens, calf creeps and a covered handling yard including crush. I have attached a sketch of what I am proposing and would like to get some feedback from others who have similar units. I intend to use some form of semi-permanent / temporary penning for the three creep areas as they might not all be needed and if I could remove them, I would have a much more flexible shed for storage, working with sheep, etc. I am also looking for any help available regarding a dungstead for this shed. I do not know where to start regarding requirements, sizing, design, etc. Any comments anybody has would be most welcome.:)

farmingmad6400

Farm King wrote: »

I am currently designing a small sucklerhouse consisting of 3 nr straw bedded cattle pens, calf creeps and a covered handling yard including crush. I have attached a sketch of what I am proposing and would like to get some feedback from others who have similar units. I intend to use some form of semi-permanent / temporary penning for the three creep areas as they might not all be needed and if I could remove them, I would have a much more flexible shed for storage, working with sheep, etc. I am also looking for any help available regarding a dungstead for this shed. I do not know where to start regarding requirements, sizing, design, etc. Any comments anybody has would be most welcome.:)

Make sure you make is as easy as possible to clean bedded area all gates clearing bed so you can clean straight true if possible. if not a wall at end to load against. Dung stead needs to be either concrete yard with water being collected when dung on it so channels prob required. Otherwise try and keep it under cover prevent collecting all that water

yellow50HX

Farm King wrote: »

I am currently designing a small sucklerhouse consisting of 3 nr straw bedded cattle pens, calf creeps and a covered handling yard including crush. I have attached a sketch of what I am proposing and would like to get some feedback from others who have similar units. I intend to use some form of semi-permanent / temporary penning for the three creep areas as they might not all be needed and if I could remove them, I would have a much more flexible shed for storage, working with sheep, etc. I am also looking for any help available regarding a dungstead for this shed. I do not know where to start regarding requirements, sizing, design, etc. Any comments anybody has would be most welcome.:)

think you might be wasting space by having the crush in the covered yard. How many cows are you looking at keeping?
what is the area out side the shed like? walls gates, passageways etc. How do the cattle get to the shed in summer time. is there pillars inside the shed?
all the penning can the made of gates and removable poles easy enough that would be easy to lay out. Would be worth your time getting a lockable feed barrier this can be used for checking cows and even for dosing. Have seen a few lads using gated feed barriers for letting the cows in and out of each pen and also for cleaning out and bedding the pen, helps to keep the groups separate. Make sure you have enough space to get the tractor in and out for cleaning the sheds. Will you need to let the animals out and into a yard to clean out and bed the area? If so you could use this yard to have your crush.

You'll have to bring the cattle out of the pens and round the side of the shed and back if you want to use the crush. do you need it covered? If you can use the outside wall for the crush then it might be easier to put pens there too, you could put a canopy over it. This would free up the covered area for storage or whatever. You could use the creep areas to store bales up until the cows start calving. Depending on when the calving starts they should be empty.

Are you going to use one of the creep areas as a calving pen?

Farm King

farmingmad6400 wrote: »

Make sure you make is as easy as possible to clean bedded area all gates clearing bed so you can clean straight true if possible. if not a wall at end to load against. Dung stead needs to be either concrete yard with water being collected when dung on it so channels prob required. Otherwise try and keep it under cover prevent collecting all that water

I was thinking of using swinging / gate feed barrier to front of each cattle pen for cleaning out - one pen at a time (cattle turned into covered yard while this being done. Regarding the dung stead, I would probably go with a free standing covered dungstead but do not know how to go about designing it (for example size required, depth, water channels, effluent storage, etc.

Farm King

yellow50HX wrote: »

think you might be wasting space by having the crush in the covered yard. How many cows are you looking at keeping?
what is the area out side the shed like? walls gates, passageways etc. How do the cattle get to the shed in summer time. is there pillars inside the shed?
all the penning can the made of gates and removable poles easy enough that would be easy to lay out. Would be worth your time getting a lockable feed barrier this can be used for checking cows and even for dosing. Have seen a few lads using gated feed barriers for letting the cows in and out of each pen and also for cleaning out and bedding the pen, helps to keep the groups separate. Make sure you have enough space to get the tractor in and out for cleaning the sheds. Will you need to let the animals out and into a yard to clean out and bed the area? If so you could use this yard to have your crush.

You'll have to bring the cattle out of the pens and round the side of the shed and back if you want to use the crush. do you need it covered? If you can use the outside wall for the crush then it might be easier to put pens there too, you could put a canopy over it. This would free up the covered area for storage or whatever. You could use the creep areas to store bales up until the cows start calving. Depending on when the calving starts they should be empty.

Are you going to use one of the creep areas as a calving pen?

Will be keeping no more than 10 cows and possibly some weanlings. The thinking behind the covered yard is that I am a part time farmer and alot of tasks will be carried out in the dark. This along with the weather has me looking at a yard covered from the elements and well lit up. Around the shed is a very old run down farmyard, no walls, gates, passageways worth keeping really. I will have to form routes around the shed during construction / afterwards. In summer time cattle will enter shed through the sliding door on right hand side gable or into cattle pens using swinging feed barriers at front. I am hoping to avoid all pillars inside shed and will form penning using removable posts as you mention. This way I can remove creeps when not needed to create more space when required. I hope to avoid moving cattle outside of the shed. Cattle should be able to be brought through creep area to covered yard area.

bbam

For a part timer is a straw bedded shed not too labour intensive??
We did this for a long time and if Your working full time you spend valuable scarse time cleaning out and bedding, and then have to spread at year end anyway. Also much harder to get dung out and rotted down into silage ground than slurry.
If your starting from scratch I'd be wondering about a tank and slats under the cows.
Also depending where you live good straw can be expensive and you'd be surprised how much 10 cows will go through. In a bad winter €1000 of straw will go quickly under them, and you can't skimp on it.

So if you add up the yearly straw bill and the cost of a covered dungstead I'd say very few years would pay for a tank and maybe even mats too.

Farm King

bbam wrote: »

For a part timer is a straw bedded shed not too labour intensive??
We did this for a long time and if Your working full time you spend valuable scarse time cleaning out and bedding, and then have to spread at year end anyway. Also much harder to get dung out and rotted down into silage ground than slurry.
If your starting from scratch I'd be wondering about a tank and slats under the cows.
Also depending where you live good straw can be expensive and you'd be surprised how much 10 cows will go through. In a bad winter €1000 of straw will go quickly under them, and you can't skimp on it.

So if you add up the yearly straw bill and the cost of a covered dungstead I'd say very few years would pay for a tank and maybe even mats too.

Yes my aim is to be as labour efficient as possible so cleaning out and bedding woulnt be a great option. The thinking around straw bedded shed was my land is of poor quality and I feel that slurry may do more harm then good to it and dung may be a better option. May consider changing to a slats if people think slurry would not damage the land too much. Would simplify alot of things around the shed for me (eg no dungstead or shed tied up storing straw, etc)

yellow50HX

bbam wrote: »

For a part timer is a straw bedded shed not too labour intensive??
We did this for a long time and if Your working full time you spend valuable scarse time cleaning out and bedding, and then have to spread at year end anyway. Also much harder to get dung out and rotted down into silage ground than slurry.
If your starting from scratch I'd be wondering about a tank and slats under the cows.
Also depending where you live good straw can be expensive and you'd be surprised how much 10 cows will go through. In a bad winter €1000 of straw will go quickly under them, and you can't skimp on it.

So if you add up the yearly straw bill and the cost of a covered dungstead I'd say very few years would pay for a tank and maybe even mats too.

Yeah, if starting from scratch the price of a slatted tank would not be a huge amount extra as then you would not need a dungstead which also need a tank for soiled water.

yellow50HX

Farm King wrote: »

Will be keeping no more than 10 cows and possibly some weanlings. The thinking behind the covered yard is that I am a part time farmer and alot of tasks will be carried out in the dark. This along with the weather has me looking at a yard covered from the elements and well lit up. Around the shed is a very old run down farmyard, no walls, gates, passageways worth keeping really. I will have to form routes around the shed during construction / afterwards. In summer time cattle will enter shed through the sliding door on right hand side gable or into cattle pens using swinging feed barriers at front. I am hoping to avoid all pillars inside shed and will form penning using removable posts as you mention. This way I can remove creeps when not needed to create more space when required. I hope to avoid moving cattle outside of the shed. Cattle should be able to be brought through creep area to covered yard area.

Might make more sense to turn it around 180 degrees. Face feeding area into the yard and use this a feed passage with the crush running along the back. That way you can bring the cows in and out of their pens without having the go out side. If you change to a slatted tank then there would be no need for a dungstead. 10 cows wouldnt probably need 3 pens so you could eaily put soemthing else in there. The creep areas can be used to store straw for calf bedding as you wont be usign as much with slats. As for the slurry on bad land, well depends on what kind of waether you put it out on too. If the tank is big enough you can delay that untill the weatehr dry up a bit and if you can afford it get soemone witha trailing shoe as they can apply in summer time right to the roots with out the nutrients evaporating

Farm King

I think I will have to strongly consider the slatted tank option. I might not be their biggest fan but they do have alot of advantages that cannot be overlooked too easily! Have any of you guys any experience of the penning that I am proposing to use for the creeps? This will prob cost a good bit extra but I feel it will make the shed alot more flexible.

Farm King

yellow50HX wrote: »

Might make more sense to turn it around 180 degrees. Face feeding area into the yard and use this a feed passage with the crush running along the back. That way you can bring the cows in and out of their pens without having the go out side. If you change to a slatted tank then there would be no need for a dungstead. 10 cows wouldnt probably need 3 pens so you could eaily put soemthing else in there. The creep areas can be used to store straw for calf bedding as you wont be usign as much with slats. As for the slurry on bad land, well depends on what kind of waether you put it out on too. If the tank is big enough you can delay that untill the weatehr dry up a bit and if you can afford it get soemone witha trailing shoe as they can apply in summer time right to the roots with out the nutrients evaporating

I see what you are saying but I am not convinced about it. If there is silage at the feeding barrier and I want to put in sheep or load cattle for the mart from the yard, they are walking all over the silage. It is important that I have the yard available at all times. For example I may want it to lamb a few ewes or repair the tractor, etc.

yellow50HX

Farm King wrote: »

I think I will have to strongly consider the slatted tank option. I might not be their biggest fan but they do have alot of advantages that cannot be overlooked too easily! Have any of you guys any experience of the penning that I am proposing to use for the creeps? This will prob cost a good bit extra but I feel it will make the shed alot more flexible.

Im a great beliver in plagerism. take a trip around to other farms and take photos of what you like then see if you can the same.

Farm King

yellow50HX wrote: »

Im a great beliver in plagerism. take a trip around to other farms and take photos of what you like then see if you can the same.

Ha Ha, ya I'm going on my first such mission this weekend!

lakill Farm

Farm King wrote: »

Ha Ha, ya I'm going on my first such mission this weekend!

There is a 40ft slatted shed here at my place with no creep area. Its almost 40ft square. The slatted area is 40ft (l) x 18ft in depth including the cement bits. Or another way of looking at it is a 22ft x 40 closed in area for silage, the crush is in it and all. Loads of room to leave the tractor in it. can put in a few sheep pens no hassle if needed.

Anyway you must already have a shed for the straw. That shed would be free. And best 40ft x 40ft is approx 90 square meters and certain conditions its planning permission exempt.

The shed was here when i bought the place. Just a pity its not 3 x 20ft bays long.

Justjens

Farm King wrote: »

Ha Ha, ya I'm going on my first such mission this weekend!

Look at my latest build: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056866049

With a slatted tank under the cows you have a greater capacity per bay. Small creep area for cows/calves behind slats and covered yard behind creep. You could use the third bay for straw/hay storage, or larger creep area.

Do you need a covered crush? It may not seem a lot but it does take up quite a bit of room in a shed, put a gate/door at either end of the back wall leading into the crush on the outside , extend the roof over the crush if you don't have the desire to get wet;)

Just one of the many suppliers of instant pens/gates, it just depends on the depth of your pocket. http://www.teemoreengineering.com/categories.php?cid=1

You're welcome to come and view any time......

johnpawl

Also might be handy to you http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056277415&page=6

Farmer Pudsey

I go slats all the way your pens are too small for straw bedded. the only way straw bedded pens work is if cattle have a long run back ideally you need 30feet+ or else slats in front and straw behind.Also cot of straw is huge if you are not within 20 miles of a tillage area straw will cost 15+ euro a bale in a good year and 20+ another. 5 cows per pen will be tight and seven or eight weanlings will be the most per pen.

Cleaning will be a pain it will take 2-3 hours every month to six weeks. My own guess at best if keeping 10 cows and six weanlings you will need 8 bales/month at least . Straw will cost 6-800/year for a 5 month winter plus the straw for calving pens and creep area's. You will have a wet mucky pat at the feeding side. You will need to have your feed passage 300mm above the straw bedded floor idealy.

Will it pay to keep weanlings when straw will cost 40-50 euro/head for the winter.

Farm King

Have looked at 3 sheds over the past few days - none with a covered yard though.

Thinking of going with slatted option now as it seems to make the most sense.
Nobody seems to know much about the mobile penning that I am proposing. That cant be a good sign - maybe I should just go with permananet walls although I did really like the flexibility of my original design.

I seen that some lads have calving gates and find them good and also learned that falls especially in creep area is vital.

One lad advised me to use gates on the creep area which could double as sheep feeding barriers.

What do you lads think of the above points?

Photos of your sheds would be great if ye have any?

bbam

Definitely build in calving gate with a pen on each side. I've seen it in a few places and it looks mighty handy.

Big falls on floors are a must in creep areas. It takes a good fall to keep straw draining out.

Don't throw out your own ideas on the mobile divisions. Just because no one else has it doesn't mean it's not a good ideA.

Farm King

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=iae+cattle+pen&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=etRjnMCB-K8gZM&tbnid=CPhGEEbhN-8-5M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iae.co.uk%2Fagricultural%2Fnews%2Flivestock.html&ei=VZEPUcvWFIaShgf6o4HYCQ&psig=AFQjCNG1XejXtm17wsVyitRtekjYnVkQhA&ust=1360061078435144

I have posted a link above to the type of temporary penning I intend to use. Has anybody any comments regarding this type of structure or has anybody seen it being used before. Storage of the components when not in use is something I have to give a bit of thought to also.

Another headache I have is how to work the falls from the covered yard to the slatted area without affecting the creep area too much. Any ideas?

yellow50HX

Farm King wrote: »

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=iae+cattle+pen&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=etRjnMCB-K8gZM&tbnid=CPhGEEbhN-8-5M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iae.co.uk%2Fagricultural%2Fnews%2Flivestock.html&ei=VZEPUcvWFIaShgf6o4HYCQ&psig=AFQjCNG1XejXtm17wsVyitRtekjYnVkQhA&ust=1360061078435144

I have posted a link above to the type of temporary penning I intend to use. Has anybody any comments regarding this type of structure or has anybody seen it being used before. Storage of the components when not in use is something I have to give a bit of thought to also.

Another headache I have is how to work the falls from the covered yard to the slatted area without affecting the creep area too much. Any ideas?

if your handy with a welder you can do a lot it the work your self. Buddy of mine convereted an old shed into a calving shed. He only uses it in the spring so can take everything out and use it for storign bale and machinery.

you can but lenghts of 4in steel pipe for the pillars. Put in waste pipe into the foundation concrete to hold the pillars in place. You can then get bolt on brackets to hold the gates. One thing also do is make up soem caps to cover the holes where the pillar has been taken out.

As for the flow you can put in a small slatted sump into the covered area and run a pipe under the creep arera to the main tank. you can then scrap the ****e into that and it'll flow into the tank. Similar set up to older cubicle houses that had one's crossing under feed passages.

49801

Up and over gates can be very handy too as there is no requirement for swinging space.

More examples here http://lciengineering.blogspot.ie/2010/05/up-and-over-dividing-gates.html

Just need to be careful of your clearance if you need to get a tractor in there

bbam

The covered yard?
We're part timers too so lots of late evening feeding here.
If you have a good tidy slatted unit, creep area and a calving pen or two with a good well positioned calving gate. Do you need the expense of a covered yard and crush?

I'm not just knocking everything its just a matter of questioning every major spend and the return on investment? I'd be asking If that money couldn't be better spent, or not spent at all ( Cavan man here)
It would probably pay for slat mats which in my opinion would be a better investment.

Farm King

As mentioned earlier, I am now intending to construct a slatted tank under the cattle pens. I am wondering what size slats I will require. My cattle pens will be 4.2M from barrier to backwall. What are the standard sizes of slats available and how much should I expect to pay for them?

Farmer Pudsey

Slats come in sizes from about 8' up You will only get a 12' slat in that size area. you can always make you pens a bit bigger if needed

Farm King

Appologies - I should have said 4.7M deep pens. 14' 6" slat???

grazeaway

Farm King wrote: »

Appologies - I should have said 4.7M deep pens. 14' 6" slat???

dont forget to take into account the width of the apron at either side of the slats. from what i can remember any thing over 12-6 wide will require reenforing mesh accross the full floor to meet dept of agri specs. lad up the road got the tank made deeper (9ft instead of 8) by turning the shuttering 90degress.