"Caherseveen" School upsets an Israeli or two

ejmaztec

(There seem to be several ways of spelling that town, it's about time they made their mind up)


This complaint smacks of being over-sensitive. I'm sure that if the school thought the Israelis couldn't afford olive trees, they would have been given some as well.:(

Kerry school denies anti-Semitism

The principal of one of Kerry's biggest secondary schools, Coláiste na Sceilge in Cahersiveen, has rejected claims by an Israeli journalist of anti-Semitism and pro-Palestinian bias in the school.
Principal John O'Connor said students and teachers always acted on "humanitarian basis " and, far from indoctrination, the school instilled critical thinking.
In a column published in English language daily the Jerusalem Post on January 25th, journalist Sarah Honig tells of encountering anti-Semitic remarks and overwhelming bias towards Palestine during a school-backed fundraising event to help Palestinians buy olive trees, a Trócaire project, on the streets of Cahersiveen.
The claims are provoking strong reaction among readers in Israel and the US, including calls for a boycott of Ireland as a tourist destination. One letter writer to the newspaper, who grew up in New York, has called on Israelis to choose their holiday destinations more carefully.
In the article, under the headline "Another tack: that unwitting indecency", Honig described what she had encountered in "outlying County Kerry". She claimed
teenagers from the school told her "Jews are evil" and had killed Jesus. Banners held up by the teenagers called on the public to "Save Palestine" and there were posters of the Palestinian flag, she said.
A teacher accompanying the teenagers had also expressed bias, she claimed.

hyperborean

ejmaztec wrote: »

(There seem to be several ways of spelling that town, it's about time they made their mind up)


This complaint smacks of being over-sensitive. I'm sure that if the school thought the Israelis couldn't afford olive trees, they would have been given some as well.:(

Should they not be off committing genocide instead of complaining about kerry?

Murphj7

Some going by Israelis

ejmaztec

hyperborean wrote: »

Should they not be off committing genocide instead of complaining about kerry?

They're going to commit genocide in Kerry.

Madam_X

Nothing anti semitic about that campaign - very silly to claim there is. "Jews are evil and they killed Jesus" (if the kid REALLY said that) is disturbing though...

Pat Mustard

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=300877

I asked: “Free Palestine from whom?” The cheery trio’s swift answer was unambiguous: “The Jews.”

I pressed on: “Do you know where your money would go? “The boys: “To plant olive trees.”

“Are you sure,” I continued, as kindly-looking little old ladies generously opened their purses and dropped coins and bills in the collection box, “that this money wouldn’t fund terrorists and murderers?” Their retort threw me for a loop: “What do you have against Palestinians? What have they done to you? They are only against Jews. Jews are evil.”

Sounds like those Kerrymen were taking the m1ck out of a tourist.

I wonder if the omnipotent Kerry County Council voted to free Palestine after abolishing drink driving that afternoon.

Madam_X

Madam_X wrote: »

Nothing anti semitic about that campaign - very silly to claim there is. "Jews are evil and they killed Jesus" (if the kid REALLY said that) is disturbing though...

If the journalist is correct then the teacher is way out of line.

If the journalist has made it all up then she is way out of line.

I think it unfair to say the journalist should be"off committing genocide". We don't greet Americans with that message. Heck in our county we elect a convicted gunrunner...they weren't being brought in to shoot cans off walls.

Mrs Dempsey

Everyone knows who killed Jesus & it was not the Jews.
Everyone also knows who wished Jesus killed & it was not the Romans.
I hope Mossad don't visit this site, they might not appreciate me droning on & drone on me.

ejmaztec

The Mustard wrote: »

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=300877


Sounds like those Kerrymen were taking the m1ck out of a tourist.

I wonder if the omnipotent Kerry County Council voted to free Palestine after abolishing drink driving that afternoon.

They should send the Healy-Raes on a fact finding mission to Gaza.

Kristopherus

ejmaztec wrote: »

They should send the Healy-Raes on a fact finding mission to Gaza.

They should send them as hostages:D:D:D

Victor

Kristopherus wrote: »

They should send them as hostages:D:D:D

Yes, stop fighting and find a permanent peace or we'll send more of them.

Pat Mustard

So that's where he got the idea...

fryup

Madam_X wrote: »

Nothing anti semitic about that campaign - very silly to claim there is. "Jews are evil and they killed Jesus" (if the kid REALLY said that) is disturbing though...

i wouldn't be surprised, there's always been widespread ignorance towards the jewish and other minority religions in ireland

and as i mentioned in another thread this is why jewish people left ireland,

Lelantos

fryup wrote: »

i wouldn't be surprised, there's always been widespread ignorance towards the jewish and other minority religions in ireland

and as i mentioned in another thread this is why jewish people left ireland,

Widespread ignorance of minority religions? What can you tell me about the Plymouth Brethren or Baha'i or Quaker or Pantheist or latter day saints? I would wager next to nothing. Does that make you ignorant I wonder.
As for the Jewish leaving Ireland, no, not correct. All religions have suffered in this country, multitudes of catholics murdered because of their faith, to the best of my knowledge there have been no anti semetic deaths in Ireland, yes, there have been doors & windows daubed with paint, stupid kids & a mindless few, but it hasn't caused them to leave Ireland, numbers hold at about 2k fairly constantly. You're going to have to provide some proof other than your little ramble for me to believe otherwise.

SunKing

Reading that article / opinion piece, the writer claims that Israel isn't in the wrong at all, and is painted as an 'ogre' by the fundraisers, seems a bit irrational with the UN itself proclaiming that Israel is breaking international law with its 'settlements' only recently....

fryup

Lelantos wrote: »

to the best of my knowledge there have been no anti semetic deaths in Ireland, yes, there have been doors & windows daubed with paint, stupid kids & a mindless few, but it hasn't caused them to leave Ireland, numbers hold at about 2k fairly constantly..

what.. not even one?? well i certainly wouldn't feel comfortable if i was singled out for my religion

Lelantos wrote: »

You're going to have to provide some proof other than your little ramble for me to believe otherwise.

limerick pogrom

here's a post from a jewish poster

and here

Dr Turk Turkelton

Hmmm Jews complaining about being run out of a country over their religion?

Oh the irony!

goat2

i do hope this is all a joke. people taking what children say too seriously,
any adult person knows that the jewish people have been through an auful lot,

ejmaztec

fryup wrote: »

what.. not even one?? well i certainly wouldn't feel comfortable if i was singled out for my religion




limerick pogrom

here's a post from a jewish poster

and here

There have been pogroms all over Europe, including Russia etc for centuries, and I think that all of the Jews were expelled from England back in the 13th or 14th century as another extreme example. The Limerick "pogrom" was minuscule in comparison to all of these other events.

In Ireland, the Catholics were too busy hating the Protestants, and vice versa, to have much time for hating any other religious group.

As for the "Jewish Poster's" post, it's more than likely that the perpetrators were Islamists with an axe to grind rather than anyone else.

Madam_X

fryup wrote: »

i wouldn't be surprised, there's always been widespread ignorance towards the jewish and other minority religions in ireland

and as i mentioned in another thread this is why jewish people left ireland,

Limerick pogrom - dreadful event but it's always the only example trotted out by people who claim Ireland is inherently anti semitic. If you think that's true about Ireland, read up on eastern Europe/former Soviet states.
Ireland doesn't even come close.

Wrong of a teacher to use their class to create awareness of a political issue though, even if highlighting the Palestinian cause is not anti semitic.

Lelantos

fryup wrote: »

what.. not even one?? well i certainly wouldn't feel comfortable if i was singled out for my religion




limerick pogrom

here's a post from a jewish poster

and here

The limerick pogrom from over 100 years ago, that's relevant to today you think?
I don't doubt the post about baby shoes. But, that isn't the norm & I already mentioned painted doors & windows, saw that myself. But I don't hold a country responsible for the actions of a few. Anymore than I say its the atheists who stole a relic from ny local church & crapped inside, or the neighbouring parish whos priest was beaten half to death? Is that a racist or religious attack. No, just the work of a horrible human.
In fact, anything I have ever read has said that Ireland is felt to be 1 of the most welcoming countries in Europe for the Jewish faith.
As for your "not even one" argument, whataboutery of the highest order considering the history of this country

Pat Mustard

Lelantos wrote: »

The limerick pogrom from over 100 years ago, that's relevant to today you think?
I don't doubt the post about baby shoes. But, that isn't the norm & I already mentioned painted doors & windows, saw that myself. But I don't hold a country responsible for the actions of a few. Anymore than I say its the atheists who stole a relic from ny local church & crapped inside, or the neighbouring parish whos priest was beaten half to death? Is that a racist or religious attack. No, just the work of a horrible human.
In fact, anything I have ever read has said that Ireland is felt to be 1 of the most welcoming countries in Europe for the Jewish faith.
As for your "not even one" argument, whataboutery of the highest order considering the history of this country

Well put!

fryup wrote: »

limerick pogrom

That happened more than a century ago and it was localised in Limerick. It is not a convincing argument for Jews leaving this country en masse.

I don't know the exact reasons for the dwindling Jewish population in this country, but my guess is that a simple thing like marriage may have had a profound impact. For instance, it is my understanding that the Catholic Church did not allow its members to marry non Christians (I don't know whether this is still the case or not). Of itself, that would have restricted Jews to marriage amongst the non-Catholic minorities in this country.

Madam_X

Madam_X wrote: »

Limerick pogrom - dreadful event but it's always the only example trotted out by people who claim Ireland is inherently anti semitic. If you think that's true about Ireland, read up on eastern Europe/former Soviet states.
Ireland doesn't even come close.

Wrong of a teacher to use their class to create awareness of a political issue though, even if highlighting the Palestinian cause is not anti semitic.

Um.

You asked for an example to show how or when the Jewish people were run out of this country.

I'd say, even if it wasn't as big as Auschwitz granted, or some of the pogroms in Russia/Ukraine etc. the Limerick Pogrom is the perfect answer to your question.

Again, I say it's pretty simple, if the journalist is correct the teacher should be in serious trouble, if the journo is lying then she should be in trouble.

Victor

The Mustard wrote: »

I don't know the exact reasons for the dwindling Jewish population in this country, but my guess is that a simple thing like marriage may have had a profound impact. For instance, it is my understanding that the Catholic Church did not allow its members to marry non Christians (I don't know whether this is still the case or not). Of itself, that would have restricted Jews to marriage amongst the non-Catholic minorities in this country.

From about the 1950s to 1980s the Jewish population in Ireland fell, in part through lack of economic opportunity (hundreds of thousands of others emigrated), but also do to the large scale immigration into Israel in that era.

Lelantos

Conor74 wrote: »

Um.

You asked for an example to show how or when the Jewish people were run out of this country.

I'd say, even if it wasn't as big as Auschwitz granted, or some of the pogroms in Russia/Ukraine etc. the Limerick Pogrom is the perfect answer to your question.

Again, I say it's pretty simple, if the journalist is correct the teacher should be in serious trouble, if the journo is lying then she should be in trouble.

It wasn't as big as Auschwitz? Nobody died in Limerick....a lot of the families relocated to Cork & some to Dublin, I have no idea how many left Ireland, but to say it is a perfect example is ridiculous in the extreme.

philstar

^its a valid example of predjudice,

The Mustard wrote: »

That happened more than a century ago and it was localised in Limerick. It is not a convincing argument for Jews leaving this country en masse.

the pogrom was localised to limerick, but anti semitic feeling always existed beneath the surface in irish society...how many jewish refugees did the irish goverment take in during ww2? ..none

and some irish people seem to be obsessed about the palestine/Israeli issue..i mean of all the trouble-zones in the world...why there??

The Mustard wrote: »

I don't know the exact reasons for the dwindling Jewish population in this country, but my guess is that a simple thing like marriage may have had a profound impact. For instance, it is my understanding that the Catholic Church did not allow its members to marry non Christians (I don't know whether this is still the case or not).

well not exactly, you had the ne tenuim decree that when a catholic marrys a non-catholic that they must insist on bringing they're children up in the catholic faith

Lelantos

philstar wrote: »

its a valid example of predjudice,



the pogrom was localised to limerick, but anti semitic feeling was always bubbling beneath the surface in irish society...how many jewish refugees did the irish goverment take in during ww2? ..none

and some irish people seem to be obsessed about the palestine/Israeli issue..i mean of all the trouble-zones in the world...why there??



well not exactly, you had the ne tenuim decree that when a catholic marrys a non-catholic that they must insist on bringing they're children up in the catholic faith

Again, incorrect & half truths. The blue shirts were not lovers of the Jewish faith, that is known. But the ordinary people of the land didn't feel the same. If you look at the history of this land you will see their own accounts of how much they were welcomed here & that it is one of the most welcoming countries in Europe.
As for WWII, w Ireland was not a country refugees wished to go to as we had rationing & it was many times worse than England. We were neutral & a lot of refugees wanted to settle in England & fight to free their families in Europe. But we still took in some refugees who wanted to come, not many, approx 50 I think

Sunny Disposition

It's a little hard take her seriously when she makes so many mistakes in spelling, that's basic enough. Find it hard to believe some of the things she says the kids said.

Madam_X

Deleted User wrote: »

Um.

You asked for an example to show how or when the Jewish people were run out of this country.

No I didn't.

I'd say, even if it wasn't as big as Auschwitz granted, or some of the pogroms in Russia/Ukraine etc. the Limerick Pogrom...

It was a disgusting event but there are some people who like to say Ireland is inherently anti semitic and that one incident is all they ever come up with because that's all they have. One historical event and a bunch of idiots (whom you'll find in any country unfortunately) does not a society inherently anti semitic make. After the pogrom, a number of Jewish people fled all right... to Cork, where they were welcomed. Ireland isn't even remotely comparable to societies that are actually inherently anti semitic.
I presume the "Ireland is so anti semitic" claim comes from:

- An anti catholic stance (because all catholics hate Jews don'tchaknow). Btw I'm atheist and have no time for the catholic establishment so I'm not saying that out of bias
- The need some people (many being Irish, ironically) have to depict Irish people as really racist and ignorant and backwards
- The significant level of support for Palestine here (no matter what anyone says, that is not an anti semitic cause - and it's baffling that anyone would defend/apologise for the IDF's level of force/Israeli government policy re Palestine)

But yes, Ireland with its Jewish mayors, is a real Jew-hating spot.

Yes there's anti-semitism here among some morons - but the sad reality is that there is anti-semitism in ANY country. There is a baffling worldwide hatred of the Jewish people for millennia, and it's not fair (and it's ironic) to claim Irish society as a whole is particularly guilty of this... when it isn't.

Pat Mustard

philstar wrote: »

well not exactly, you had the ne tenuim decree that when a catholic marrys a non-catholic that they must insist on bringing they're children up in the catholic faith

I think that you may have confused two separate concepts. I am aware of the requirement to raise children as catholic, especially in relation to a marriage between a catholic and a non-catholic.

My point was that I understand that there may have been a prohibition on catholics marrying non christians. I have not yet located relevant extract from the Catholic catechism, but see here.

Both partners do not have to be a Catholic in order to be sacramentally married in the Catholic Church, but both must be baptized Christians...

philstar wrote: »

the pogrom was localised to limerick, but anti semitic feeling always existed beneath the surface in irish society...how many jewish refugees did the irish goverment take in during ww2? ..none

This is not representative of the overall situation. Here is an extract from what I would regard as a reasonably well-balanced academic article on the matter, which, while acknowledging the 'embarrassingly restrictive' Irish refugee policy, states:

Even the Irish Free State experienced some anti-Semitic outbursts among its inhabitants, though overall Jewish denizens were well-treated and the Jewish faith was officially recognised and respected in the 1937 Constitution. Therefore, domestically, the Irish state exhibited commendable democratic and human rights credentials, in a Europe that was steadily falling under the spell of dictatorships and racist ideology. Consequently, Ireland offered a potential haven for refugees fleeing Nazi persecution as the decade progressed...

The economic state of the country was used as a convenient justification for excluding deserving applicants. Therefore, only a handful of Jewish refugees managed to gain legitimate entry to the Irish Free State before the outbreak of war.

philstar wrote: »

and some irish people seem to be obsessed about the palestine/Israeli issue..i mean of all the trouble-zones in the world...why there??

Ireland is a country with a history of dispossession, colonisation, marginalization and a struggle for sovereignty. Taking the Irish obsession with land ownership and the aforementioned past injustices, perhaps Irish people identify with the plight of the Palestinian people.

Other conflict zones may not carry the same historical resonance for Irish people.

Arse Biscuits!

To be fair, to me this article looks like a complete fabrication. Granted, there are more than a few, how to put it, undesirable teens in Cahersiveen (most common spelling) but I highly doubt that even they would come out with statements such as "The Jews Killed Jesus" or "Israel is evil" or whatever she wrote in her publication. Think logically, what teenager honestly cares about religion and who killed Jesus these days? And how many school children are aware of how complex the political issues with regards to Israel and Palestine actually are? If anything, and it's unlikely she even asked the question, the answer she probably received was "the jews?" and didn't understand the fact that it was a guess. I don't know who killed Jesus and I'm grown up, a Catholic and went to Colaiste na sceilge, if you asked me who killed Jesus, I couldn't answer exactly the person or the religious nature of that person.

The teachings within the Colaiste na Sceilge, as all religion class rooms are in Ireland, are based up a national syllabus, so if there was any bias with the classroom then it would have shown up in state exams as Colaiste na Sceilge is one of the few schools in this country that actually takes a junior cert religion exam. On top of that, surely the issue would have been raised by concerned parents that a teacher was prejudiced.

As far as I'm aware, it was also not stated whether or not this was related to a certain class, so to those saying that politics has no place in a classroom, cspe - civil social and political education - would answer the question as to where, if anywhere, knowledge of the relationship between Israel and Palestine was garnered. Although as mentioned, it was through Trocaire. From my first hand experience, I never experienced even the slightest anti-semitism in the school, nor infact any religious bias in any form. The teachers even had a buddhist monk in once to talk to the students to help them gain knowledge of the Budhist faith.

To me, this just looks like typical Israeli social media over-reaction at the mention of the word Palestine. If you are not aware (research it), Israel attempts to deny and disrupt any form of aid to Palestine in particular water. Because she saw the school kids fundraising for a country she has a personal dislike for (so it would appear in her article) as does her government, and seeing as she is in a position to reach a wide audience given her journalistic title, she decided to just make another attack on the country.

They weren't funding Hamas or the PLA, they were sending olive trees. How come money was never sent to Israel from the school? Because the Trocaire project that the school was undertaking was always focused upon Palestine. Israel receives over $3 billion dollars a year from the US alone, Palestine is worse off, Charity favours the worst affected. Granted, Israel get's attacked too but have you seen how much money Israel squanders on it's military? The technology is insane, they are way over armed! If they spent the money improving relations with Palestine rather than doing everything in their power to make everyone helping them look "anti-sematic" or "anti-Israel" then they would have a lot less problems and a lot more prosperity, on both sides.

All she's doing is using a small rural school in a place, globally, noone has ever heard of, as a scapegoat.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

lapsed

The Mustard wrote: »

Ireland is a country with a

history of dispossession, colonisation, marginalization and a struggle for sovereignty.

Taking the Irish obsession with land ownership and the aforementioned past injustices, perhaps Irish people identify with the plight of the Palestinian people.

Other conflict zones may not carry the same historical resonance for Irish people.

Well, as all those things have happened to the Jews - and much worse - did the Irish toss a coin to see who in the Middle East they'd " resonate " with ????

Pat Mustard

The journalist didn't mention the names of the three boys or the name of the teacher. She's not off to a great start there, as regards credibility.

And who killed Jesus? 'Twas the Sopranos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLztzvmI9Cc

Pat Mustard

lapsed wrote: »

Well, as all those things have happened to the Jews - and much worse - did the Irish toss a coin to see who in the Middle East they'd " resonate " with ????

Are you talking about Jews in general or are you talking about Israelis?