Operation Puerto - Discussion Thread

manafana

Well I have been following goings on for the last while.

So pretty much they are going after Fuentes the doctor at the heart of all this, he is not ashamed of what he has done and has said he will happily name his patients. But for now he has been kept quiet, the courts etc have refused for the names of anyone bar the cyclists involved to be named. Theirs a huge scandal waiting to happen, outside of Spain many are disgraced by this been solely looked at from cycling point of view.

theirs plenty info up on the telegraph site

or check out examiner, cycling news forum. Have written in my blog on it too which discusses issues not suitable for public forum.

The only way names get named is if WADA gets involved the Spanish do not want to name and shame their own.

TheBlaaMan

Incredible to think that doping in sport was not illegal in Spain before 2006.

Spains footballers and tennis stars have too much to lose for the courts to allow the evidence to be aired.............cycling is obviously 'expendible' in that sense. They all want the Puerto investigations to be restricted to cycling only.

manafana

Judge keeps refusing names of none cyclists been named.

I see rasmussen has been confessing himself, all this isnt making Riis look very good at all.

RobFowl

manafana wrote: »

Judge keeps refusing names of none cyclists been named.

I see rasmussen has been confessing himself, all this isnt making Riis look very good at all.

And Rasmussen confessed in an honest open way with full co-operation with the authorities too, my respect for the man has shot up....

Never looked a confident doper tbh, alwats had a guilty look about him.
Hope he gets the inner peace he deserves now.

manafana

RobFowl wrote: »

And Rasmussen confessed in an honest open way with full co-operation with the authorities too, my respect for the man has shot up....

Never looked a confident doper tbh, alwats had a guilty look about him.
Hope he gets the inner peace he deserves now.

he was scary thou, like alot of Spaniards he was more than happy to race to the bottom he tried everything.

tfrancer

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Incredible to think that doping in sport was not illegal in Spain before 2006.

Should doping in sport be a criminal matter at all? Just asking................

buffalo

tfrancer wrote: »

Should doping in sport be a criminal matter at all? Just asking................

Seems reasonable, when you consider that it took the FBI to first ferret out details of the US Postal operation.

manafana

well it technically is fraud, your taking a banned item prohibited from us to win money.

Depends also on drug sure didnt AMGEN make huge pay off for fact their EPO products were pushed on doctors and also ended up so easily on the black market.

Lusk Doyle

RobFowl wrote: »

And Rasmussen confessed in an honest open way with full co-operation with the authorities too, my respect for the man has shot up....

Never looked a confident doper tbh, alwats had a guilty look about him.
Hope he gets the inner peace he deserves now.

Could you elaborate on why you think he deserves inner peace following his confession?

RobFowl

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Could you elaborate on why you think he deserves inner peace following his confession?

I feel once anyone comes clean openly and honestly to the satisfaction of the authorities then they should be allowed move on.

cdaly_

RobFowl wrote: »

Hope he gets the inner peace he deserves now.

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Could you elaborate on why you think he deserves inner peace following his confession?

Well, the inner peace he deserves could be none at all...

Lusk Doyle

cdaly_ wrote: »

Well, the inner peace he deserves could be none at all...

That's more in line with my thinking on the matter. I appreciate the sentiment robfowl but I'd have to disagree with regard to the deserving aspect of it.

12 sprocket

I would like to commend Rob Fowler for his expression of humanity in regard to the dopers having some inner peace and moving on with their lives.

Even though its quite obvious that Rob Fowler abhors everything about doping in sport. I think its a nice trait that Rob shows and its a far better trait to go through life with than hatred and bitterness.

We done Rob some humanity goes a long way in life.

Flandria

Can't agree. Last time I checked Rasmussen looked fairly happy strutting his funky Chicken on the Danish version of Dancing With EPO In My Eyes or whatever it's called. He also looked fairly chipper in them snaps decked out with supermodels in Christina watches. I would much prefer that any clean riders that he cheated of a proud palmares find the inner peace they properly deserve. I'm sure Sastre would be proud to have the 2006 stage win that he lost to Chicken (stage 16?), and would we take Pereiro's pedigree a little more seriously if he had the KOM title that Rasmussen beat him to in 2005*?

*I know Floyd called Pereiro out subsequently...

manafana

rasmussen is still not on same podium as armstrong, rasmussen stopped short of suing and insulting anyone who opposed him

LL Sanchez has been stood down by blanco as a result of this court case, hes one of many spanards who got caught up in the ways of cycling .

ballygowan1

Three top class Spanish tennis players names in the list. Think people have a fair idea who one is. The connection has been commented on time and again.

Really hope it comes on.

Chips Lovell

"they used to transport blood with cool bags of the type used for going to the beach, packing them with bottles of Coca-Cola in order to keep them cool."

Jesus

RobFowl

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

"they used to transport blood with cool bags of the type used for going to the beach, packing them with bottles of Coca-Cola in order to keep them cool."

Jesus

There are a fair few medics floating around here and Docs, nurses, Medical scientists and lab technicians especially realise just how f*cking dangerous this is.
It's like driving at a race track with "additives" of unknown quality thrown inthe the tank repeatedly at times of high stress.
Cross infection risks, toxic shock, septic shock and adverse transfusion risks are there even under strict controlled hospital conditions with transfusions controlled by multiple staff with proper training and experience.
These idiots were hanging bags of blood from picture hooks, drawing repeated small doses from bags supposed to be single use and not even paying lip service to proper cross checking proceedures.
Even if you have no problem with doping the sheer level of risk taken using inherently risky proceedures at the best of times simply takes my breath away.
Professionally makes me so angry it hurts.

manafana

scary stuff, from reading a few books their a number of accounts of riders failing ill from a bad blood bag, some more serious than others.

Rumour that the one bad tour Ullrich has was due to a bad blood bag from fuentes same which happened to hamilton that year.

ednwireland

RobFowl wrote: »

These idiots were hanging bags of blood from picture hooks, drawing repeated small doses from bags supposed to be single use and not even paying lip service to proper cross checking proceedures.
Even if you have no problem with doping the sheer level of risk taken using inherently risky proceedures at the best of times simply takes my breath away.
Professionally makes me so angry it hurts.

yeh shocked me in tyler hamiltons book when he got a transfusion of "bad blood" crazy stuff

ROK ON

@robfowl
Have the relevant medical licensing bodies in the jurisdictions involved announced any (independent) investigation into the doctors involved?
If not, why not?

If the amount of evidence that exists against doctors that we know (Fuentas, Ferrari etc) existed hypothetically against an Irish doctor, what would the response of the IMO be in your opinion?

RobFowl

ROK ON wrote: »

@robfowl
Have the relevant medical licensing bodies in the jurisdictions involved announced any (independent) investigation into the doctors involved?
If not, why not?

If the amount of evidence that exists against doctors that we know (Fuentas, Ferrari etc) existed hypothetically against an Irish doctor, what would the response of the IMO be in your opinion?

Can't comment in other countries.
In Ireland its the Irish Medical council who should deal with this sort of thisng.
They tend to only respond to complaints rather than instigate investigations.
I'd hope a Doc doing this sort of stuff here would be severely censured but going on past experience i wouldn't have great faith in them as a supervising group. They seem to like box tickers and getting docs to fill in spreadsheetes of courses, reading etc rather than deal with difficult stuff.
Most docs struck off are for incompetence rather than dodgy practice.
I asked then once specfically abut docs who enable doping in sport and they didn't even bother replying to me.

manafana

cipolinni stories all over italian papers now, hes denying it including the phone number, but the paper looked back at their phone records and matched the number to him

buffalo

Scary stuff: http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/tyler-hamilton-tells-court-he-was-once-reinfused-with-own-blood-by-cyclist-with-no-medical-training-29084000.html

Chips Lovell

Complex codes in operation. Fuentes clearly could have a career in the secret service if he can no longer work as a doctor:

"I need your help. It's hectic," he pleaded with Merino. "Birillo [Basso's codename] is waiting for us. What should I tell him? That there is nothing to eat? Soon they are in a region where we won't be able to deliver any rolls. It had been anticipated that he would get a sandwich. If there is no sausage, I make him do one with chorizo and cheese. We promised we would give him a couple of ice lollies [blood bags]."

TheBlaaMan

A few years back I watched a film (I think) about a rape case (I think) and there were four guys from a high school class fingered as culprits. No one would admit to who had actually carried out the rape, but on the day in court, three of the lawyers representing three of the guys each stood up in turn and notified the court that their client wasn't the guilty one - the fourth one didn't. Did something similar happen in that Brian Murphy case outside Annabel's?

Anyway, the point is that if all ex-pros in Spain signed this petition, as Oscar Friere has, then by inference, those who don't are potentially guilty by omitting to do so.

Its an interesting approach - certainly not proof in the legal sense, but a way to out the bad guys, perhaps?