IFI Stocking programme

madred006

Hi just curious to know is there such a thing as the above particularly for lakes thanks in advance .Or is this a closely guarded secret

Zzippy

IFI only stock some put-and-take fisheries with brown/rainbow trout. AFAIK no rivers are stocked anymore, and no wild fisheries. IFI run a hatchery in Roscrea and any club or private owner can buy fish from them to stock a fishery with, provided they have obtained permission to stock fish into it.

madred006

Zzippy wrote: »

IFI only stock some put-and-take fisheries with brown/rainbow trout. AFAIK no rivers are stocked anymore, and no wild fisheries. IFI run a hatchery in Roscrea and any club or private owner can buy fish from them to stock a fishery with, provided they have obtained permission to stock fish into it.

Thanks for reply on this I was just curious to know if they plan to stock Sheelin again this year and how many fish went into it last year but hard to get correct numbers .

Zzippy

madred006 wrote: »

Thanks for reply on this I was just curious to know if they plan to stock Sheelin again this year and how many fish went into it last year but hard to get correct numbers .

No idea, contact the Shannon office of IFI. Contact info here: http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Contact-Us/Inland-Fisheries-Ireland-Limerick.html?catid=56

Caribs

There is a hatchery in Oughterard which to the best of my knowledge is run by Cairde Loch Coiribe and each year trout are netted going up the Owenriff to spawn.

The netting etc is closely monitored by IFI but isn't managed by them. Once the fry are sufficiently mature they are released in various places around the lake. They still have their yolk sacs attached so have never been "hand fed" and are wild trout rather than stockies. I think the IFI normally purchase a few trays of the fry but where they go after that I do not know.

I think and could be very wrong in terms of numbers but think I heard that there could be approx 150,000 released. Naturally not all will survive to maturity but understand this is a hugely important part of keeping the lake stocks up.

Zzippy

Caribs wrote: »

There is a hatchery in Oughterard which to the best of my knowledge is run by Cairde Loch Coiribe and each year trout are netted going up the Owenriff to spawn.

The netting etc is closely monitored by IFI but isn't managed by them. Once the fry are sufficiently mature they are released in various places around the lake. They still have their yolk sacs attached so have never been "hand fed" and are wild trout rather than stockies. I think the IFI normally purchase a few trays of the fry but where they go after that I do not know.

I think and could be very wrong in terms of numbers but think I heard that there could be approx 150,000 released. Naturally not all will survive to maturity but understand this is a hugely important part of keeping the lake stocks up.

There is ongoing genetic work being undertaken to assess the contribution, but AFAIK scientists think the hatchery actually contributes a tiny percentage to lake stocks. I can't remember the figures I heard at a presentation before, but egg deposition in all the spawning streams around Corrib was an astronomical figure, and the hatchery contribution was a miniscule fraction of one per cent.
Current scientific advice is that hatcheries should not be operated to augment wild stocks, and that they can in fact impair wild populations by reducing genetic diversity.
Also I'm pretty sure IFI don't buy any eggs from the Oughterard hatchery. Also given the introduction of pike in the Owenriff system which has greatly impacted on the number of trout recruiting to the lake from here, removing spawners from the Owenriff River is not exactly helping this tributary.

Caribs

@Zippy - agree that there is a debate regarding the relative success or necessity of the hatchery work especially with regard to the genetic element and the overall contribution relative to the total number of eggs laid. I do know that the fertilisation to fry ratio is significantly higher than is the case in the wild but of course that opens the debate regarding the health of the fry and man interfering with natural selection to ensure only the healthiest trout survive thus ensuring a stronger stock overall.

To your point on the removing of spawners from the Owenriff river I think it appears to be an exercise in futility allowing healthy trout up to spawn only to provide more food for the pike. I do know that the IFI monitor the netting and if they think that the nets are capturing everything and not allowing some trout through they pull them for a period to allow more adult fish to travel up the system.

Like everything I think it's a balance and with the trout population under such pressure from pollution, damage to the spawning beds etc I think anything we can do to help is a good thing - assuming the hatchery work doesn't have a negative impact of course

madred006

Caribs wrote: »

@Zippy - agree that there is a debate regarding the relative success or necessity of the hatchery work especially with regard to the genetic element and the overall contribution relative to the total number of eggs laid. I do know that the fertilisation to fry ratio is significantly higher than is the case in the wild but of course that opens the debate regarding the health of the fry and man interfering with natural selection to ensure only the healthiest trout survive thus ensuring a stronger stock overall.

To your point on the removing of spawners from the Owenriff river I think it appears to be an exercise in futility allowing healthy trout up to spawn only to provide more food for the pike. I do know that the IFI monitor the netting and if they think that the nets are capturing everything and not allowing some trout through they pull them for a period to allow more adult fish to travel up the system.

Like everything I think it's a balance and with the trout population under such pressure from pollution, damage to the spawning beds etc I think anything we can do to help is a good thing - assuming the hatchery work doesn't have a negative impact of course

Made contact with Ifi regarding stock numbers and it seems its not information they freely give out.The reason I was looking for the stocking numbers was to see what sort of numbers went into Sheelin last year and if they have plans to stock it next year.As of late last year Sheelin got great reviews on all websites and mags ,but this seems wrong to be advertising it as a wild fishery when it is actually been stocked IMO it can either be one or the other.

Flysfisher

madred006 wrote: »

Made contact with Ifi regarding stock numbers and it seems its not information they freely give out.The reason I was looking for the stocking numbers was to see what sort of numbers went into Sheelin last year and if they have plans to stock it next year.As of late last year Sheelin got great reviews on all websites and mags ,but this seems wrong to be advertising it as a wild fishery when it is actually been stocked IMO it can either be one or the other.

A few years ago they put about 5000 into sheelin on one occasion. Not sure how many last year. I've been told they have put up to 15000 per season in some years.

bayliner

ifi will never stock wild fisheries,ie;westernlakes, lough ree or derg , they only stock waters they will make money off!!!

jimmymcg

i hope they NEVER stock any wild fisheries. The fish that are stocked into these places are of inferior quality genetically. If they breed with wild fish they will delete the wild gene pool, and therefore cause the demise of the wild fish. FACT.

And even if it wasnt the case, there are plenty of fish to go around everywhere as far as i am aware. Was at lough aisling a few years ago..a small lake like this makes sense to stock.

madred006

jimmymcg wrote: »

i hope they NEVER stock any wild fisheries. The fish that are stocked into these places are of inferior quality genetically. If they breed with wild fish they will delete the wild gene pool, and therefore cause the demise of the wild fish. FACT.

And even if it wasnt the case, there are plenty of fish to go around everywhere as far as i am aware. Was at lough aisling a few years ago..a small lake like this makes sense to stock.

Exactly that's what I thought but this is happening at Sheelin to get it back on the map . They were supposed to have put 5k larger fish in last year before the home internationals these fish had a strange lice attached ud imagine lakes like this would be allowed regain their status naturally .

Caribs

jimmymcg wrote: »

i hope they NEVER stock any wild fisheries. The fish that are stocked into these places are of inferior quality genetically. If they breed with wild fish they will delete the wild gene pool, and therefore cause the demise of the wild fish. FACT.

And even if it wasnt the case, there are plenty of fish to go around everywhere as far as i am aware. Was at lough aisling a few years ago..a small lake like this makes sense to stock.

I dont know if you are coming from a scientific background but having been involved in netting wild fish who are subsequently stripped I can assure you these fish are the finest of wild trout. There is a question around the impact on the gene pool but IFI are involved in the netting and support its efforts to date.

As for plenty of fish to go around, that's a whole new can of worms. Most recent report on Corrib showed okay levels of mature trout (way down on previous generations) but worryingly the levels of immature or younger trout was low which doesn't bode well for the future.

I'll hold my hand up as a rank amateur in these affairs other than a keen angler so will be happy to be corrected.

jimmymcg

i dont have a scientific backround, but with an species that is introduced and interbreeds(not just fish) , this is what happens.

as for the fish that are netted for spawn, yes they are the finest broodstock, but alot of fish in the fish farms around the country, are not wild fish..these are broodstock that have been grown from broodstock and interbred with many different strains of fish..

Altering nature may result in short term gain..the long term results may not be seen for 100 years..

getting fishery boards and councils to monitor pollution more carefully, and keep an eye on spawning habitats would make more sense than stocking.

Caribs

@jimmymcg - reckon you've hit the nail on the head there with regard to the monitoring etc. As a species we seem to be doing our damnedest to negatively impact every species we come across

There are so many contributory factors in play including what might be the unforeseen impact of well meaning individuals over the longer term. Given the numbers of wild fish relative to the overall stock we net I would imagine that the interference is a tiny percentage of a tiny percentage so will not negatively impact the overall stock and may even positively impact it in terms of unnatural selection but there are loads of examples of us rushing in where angels fear to tread

Zzippy

Caribs wrote: »

I dont know if you are coming from a scientific background but having been involved in netting wild fish who are subsequently stripped I can assure you these fish are the finest of wild trout. There is a question around the impact on the gene pool but IFI are involved in the netting and support its efforts to date.

As for plenty of fish to go around, that's a whole new can of worms. Most recent report on Corrib showed okay levels of mature trout (way down on previous generations) but worryingly the levels of immature or younger trout was low which doesn't bode well for the future.

I'll hold my hand up as a rank amateur in these affairs other than a keen angler so will be happy to be corrected.

AFAIK IFI are not actually supportive of the stripping/hatchery operation you mention, local staff maybe, but current scientific advice is that this type of operation does more harm than good, and that habitat restoration, water quality improvement is far more important. In fact, other hatcheries around the western lakes have recognised this and voluntarily ceased operating, with the encouragement of IFI.

Caribs wrote: »

There are so many contributory factors in play including what might be the unforeseen impact of well meaning individuals over the longer term. Given the numbers of wild fish relative to the overall stock we net I would imagine that the interference is a tiny percentage of a tiny percentage so will not negatively impact the overall stock and may even positively impact it in terms of unnatural selection but there are loads of examples of us rushing in where angels fear to tread

Now this hits the nail on the head.
If it is such a tiny percentage, (and I've seen data which suggests that the Oughterard hatchery operation has zero positive impact on lake stocks), why should it continue? As for unnatural selection, we are talking about trout that have evolved over millenia to adapt to local conditions. It is folly to think that unnatural selection through selecting and cross-mating individuals in a hatchery will positively impact the stock. While the commitment and enthusiasm of clubs and people involved is commendable, their efforts would be much better focussed on improving spawning and nursery habitat in tributary streams.

madred006

Zzippy wrote: »

AFAIK IFI are not actually supportive of the stripping/hatchery operation you mention, local staff maybe, but current scientific advice is that this type of operation does more harm than good, and that habitat restoration, water quality improvement is far more important. In fact, other hatcheries around the western lakes have recognised this and voluntarily ceased operating, with the encouragement of IFI.



Now this hits the nail on the head.
If it is such a tiny percentage, (and I've seen data which suggests that the Oughterard hatchery operation has zero positive impact on lake stocks), why should it continue? As for unnatural selection, we are talking about trout that have evolved over millenia to adapt to local conditions. It is folly to think that unnatural selection through selecting and cross-mating individuals in a hatchery will positively impact the stock. While the commitment and enthusiasm of clubs and people involved is commendable, their efforts would be much better focussed on improving spawning and nursery habitat in tributary streams.

The last part of your post re improving spawning streams and nursery habitat is the vital part ,IMO this is the only way of improving the stock for the future and not the select stocking of certain lakes with larger trophy trout ,to gain popularity in certain magazines .I fished Sheelin several times last year and on my last trip was so disappointed to learn of it been stocked lost its allure to me , perhaps I'm been picky but it cannot be two things .Its either Ireland's best wild fishery or its a stocked lake .