anti-bullying....start with the teaching staff!

anfield liv

The anti -bullying action plan must be welcomed but I would rather see the minister tackle the bullying of staff,the cronyism and the discrimination which is rife in our schools before we try and alleviate the problem among the student body. Why should teachers be forced to preach to students on this topic when they are victims themselves with no comeback?

whiteandlight

This reads like a bit of a rant at the moment. Do you have anything specific to discuss?

I cannot say I've seen bullying-cronyism in one school yes.

The only thing that springs to mind is the pressure on part time teachers to spend huge amounts of time and energy on extra curricular activities to try and keep their job. Having said that I do enjoy my extra curricular work though a little less time commitment would be nice

2011abc

No that does not read like a rant .It makes PERFECT sense and Ive been thinking the EXACT same thing!

evolving_doors

2011abc wrote: »

No that does not read like a rant .It makes PERFECT sense and Ive been thinking the EXACT same thing!

In fairness though OP , the ministers comments were referring to kids (given the recent suicides due to buying last year)...whereas teachers bullying issues are covered under legislation along with other employees.

What I do take issue with though is the undermining of career guidance teachers who in my experience have a lot of excellent training , whereas the minister is trying to save a few quid by saying it's all teachers remit now without providing any training. I'm a subject teacher first and foremost and try my best to muddle through when it comes to pastoral issues (given my lack of training).

I would rather see help given to kids before teachers tbh op.

linguist

The OP is raising an inconvenient truth and it's about time this was discussed.

Things happen in staffrooms that I could scarcely imagine being tolerated in any other white collar profession. Great 'academic' teachers who are really valued by their students for their knowledge, love of subject and their breadth of knowledge in general are often on the sidelines in the staffroom where the conversation resembles a sports locker room on the one hand and a vacuous panel discussion on the latest TV trash on the other. If you don't fit in, you can very easily find yourself isolated. I sometimes think pupils would be stunned by what passes for interaction between a group of highly educated and skilled people.

The point is that do as I say and not as I do is simply not acceptable. Kids can pick up all too easily on the teachers who are in the clique and those who aren't. We ask them to tell, tell and tell again when the going gets tough and yet we've all seen situations where certain colleagues treat others unacceptably and yet the injured party does nothing - particularly if they're not permanent.

For me part of the problem lies in the fact that our workplaces have generally not changed in line with the rest of society. They remain almost exclusively Irish and thus lack the diversity that breeds care and tolerance. Moreover, many teachers, particularly men, seem to be employed not on the basis of their academic prowess but rather their ability to coach sport. It's time they learnt to distinguish between the banter of the locker room or the bar and the type of behaviour that is more appropriate to the day job.

jonseyblub

linguist wrote: »

Moreover, many teachers, particularly men, seem to be employed not on the basis of their academic prowess but rather their ability to coach sport. It's time they learnt to distinguish between the banter of the locker room or the bar and the type of behaviour that is more appropriate to the day job.

If I hear that nonsense again i think I'll scream (like a girl). All too often this is bandied about as if its common practice in Irish schools. From my experience it certainly is not. I''m not saying it doesn't happen but I'm sure there are just as many women hired above men because of some of their particular abilities. It's as if principals shouldn't be hiring people because they are good at sports. You say academic prowess should be first and foremost in the mind of the principal when hiring. I have experienced first hand plenty of teachers both male and female who are experts in their subject but dreadful at either getting their point across or controlling a class. Teachers who take teams, give up their time organising various activities tend to get better respect in the classroom and as a result this creates a better teaching and learning environment.

Seanchai

And often the bullying is of the principal by senior staff members for various reasons, at least some of which are connected with the principal, rather than themselves, getting the job of principal.

Chilli Con Kearney

The reality, I feel with regards to this policy is that it is a face saving exercise and a yellow pack service for students.

The fulcrum or go to person on all matters relating to mental health, bullying, self harm and various other matters was the guidance counsellor. It made logical sense to have a person like this in our secondary schools, were our children spend a significant portion of their lives.

However, the government has essentially eradicated the service offered by guidance counsellors with the aim of saving thirty odd million per annum. To look like they are doing something about it, they have launched this plan.

The truth of the matter is that most of us teachers do not have the skills and knowledge to deal with such complex issues. Yes, we try to help our pupils were possible, but there is only one staff member who is trained to work on these issues with pupils and refer if necessary.

We should not kid ourselves into thinking that this will do. It is merely papering over the cracks.

RealJohn

A lot of bitter people throwing vague accusations around in this thread.
The people moaning about teachers getting jobs because they coach sport (which in my case is rarely the case) clearly don't understand the importance of sport in schools. For weaker students, sport is often the only thing they're good at in school and school would be a thoroughly negative experience for them without it. Frankly, I think it's a pity so many teachers are so unwilling to take sport (or other extra curricular activities but sport in particular). As has been pointed out, it's great for developing positive relationships with students who might struggle with your subjects.

My problem at present is that I'm the only one coaching soccer in my school at the moment meaning we can only put out two boys teams and no girls teams when we have enough students for at least two more, simply because I just don't have time to do any more (and I'm missing too many classes as it is). There are plenty of teachers in the school who don't do anything outside of their job description, no doubt telling themselves "well look how well qualified I am" judging by some people in this thread.

And I am self-aware enough to admit that that was a bit of a rant. I make no apologies for it.

Seanchai

linguist wrote: »

The OP is raising an inconvenient truth and it's about time this was discussed.... Great 'academic' teachers who are really valued by their students for their knowledge, love of subject and their breadth of knowledge in general are often on the sidelines in the staffroom.... If you don't fit in, you can very easily find yourself isolated. ... we've all seen situations where certain colleagues treat others unacceptably and yet the injured party does nothing - particularly if they're not permanent.

This, all of it. Well said.

Seanchai

linguist wrote: »

For me part of the problem lies in the fact that our workplaces have generally not changed in line with the rest of society. They remain almost exclusively Irish and thus lack the diversity that breeds care and tolerance.

I would put much more emphasis on the fact that they remain populated by much the same people, and certainly dominated by them, for decades rather than on the nationality. The lack of change impedes new ideas and innovation and, at least in my limited experience, teaching staff rooms tend to be frighteningly conservative regarding things such as integration of technology into teaching.

I also don't subscribe to the idea that having an ethnically diverse staffroom is necessary to breed tolerance. In my experience, it would be pretty hard to be a teacher and to not be tolerant of gazillions of things and acutely conscious of the insecurities and weaknesses of people around you. If being a teacher does not breed tolerance, it's unlikely that having a few non-Irish people in a staffroom will do the trick.

linguist wrote: »

Moreover, many teachers, particularly men, seem to be employed not on the basis of their academic prowess but rather their ability to coach sport. It's time they learnt to distinguish between the banter of the locker room or the bar and the type of behaviour that is more appropriate to the day job.

You are correct in this first sentence: people are given teaching positions in schools because of their sporting achievements. As sport is usually the largest extracurricular "prestige" investment of a school, sporting ability may be the deciding factor in more job appointments than is, say, music or drama ability. It can also be central to a school's attendance figures, for instance if an Inter County hurler/footballer is given a job, more male students will want to attend that school. For hard-headed reasons, principals like that sort of thing in their competition with other schools in their locality.

Furthermore, as somebody who is in no way sporty I would be the first to acknowledge the role of such people as pastoral figures in the lives of many students, particularly some of the harder discipline problem students. Their banter may be entirely appropriate for leadership roles with those particular students and often long-term it can serve a purpose in moderating the responses of these students and giving them more academic focus than they otherwise might have had.

austerity2012

As a non teacher.. ( I am an ecologist that gives talks to school groups of all ages), I often have lunch or a cuppa with the teaching staff in the staffroom of the various schools I visit. I am being very honest here... some of the obvious isolation of some staff from the main group of teachers is shocking. I remember one teacher, a middle aged guy, chatting away with me about plants he had seen on a hike in kerry and behind him I could see other staff rolling their eyes and smiling at each other. I couldnt believe how immature and rude they were. This man was an interesting guy, very passionate about environmental matters. The others were all very pally and spent their lunch talking about a parent of one of the kids... again not very pleasant comments. When I was leaving one of them said to me " sorry you got lumbered with him, hes a bit of a wierdo!!". I was stunned to hear that and basically told him he should cop on and act like a professional. Was back in the school three weeks later.... none of that clique even spoke to me!! So bullying is an issue among staff and I apologise to all the hard working teachers if I appear to be tarnishing your profession... not the purpose of my post. Bullying is rife in workplaces but I find it upsetting that teachers would engage in it when preaching to kids how wrong it is at the same time.

doc_17

linguist wrote: »

Moreover, many teachers, particularly men, seem to be employed not on the basis of their academic prowess but rather their ability to coach sport. It's time they learnt to distinguish between the banter of the locker room or the bar and the type of behaviour that is more appropriate to the day job.

That is an extremely interesting commenter about why men are hired. It's bordering on being sexist in my opinion

spurious

doc_17 wrote: »

That is an extremely interesting commenter about why men are hired. It's bordering on being sexist in my opinion

I agree.
We're going to stop this now before the usual hobby horses get trotted out.

Bullying is a fact of human nature it happens everywhere. It is not exclusive to teaching.

If you feel you are being victimised or bullied in your workplace, contact your Union.

Thread clsoed.