Would you sponsor a teenager to stay in school?

Ray Palmer

I was talk to some friends who work in social services and we discussed how hard some teenagers in deprived areas have it. Parents with no respect for education, substance abuse etc. ..
So we discussed if we sponsored a kid to stay in school would it work. The feeling was it would work with 10% and maybe up to 20%. After knowing what happened to many of my own class mates I think it would have helped them.
Maybe 150-200 month. I'd do myself if there was a structure to do it. If a tax break to do it even better. Is it all too bleeding heart liberal thinking?

MadsL

Can I subscribe you your service? Also how hot would said teenager be?

copeyhagen

fook that, we all went through school without it.

Dravokivich

The problem isn't always with getting them to school. There were a lot of other students in my class during leaving cert years who just acted out and pricked about.

D1stant

Why?

Why would they be leaving school?

Why is it my problem they are poorly raised?

Why is it my responsability to make their lives a sucess?

BillyMitchel

Not the worst idea, could work. I'd volunteer for something like this.

fangee

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I was talk to some friends who work in social services and we discussed how hard some teenagers in deprived areas have it. Parents with no respect for education, substance abuse etc. ..
So we discussed if we sponsored a kid to stay in school would it work. The feeling was it would work with 10% and maybe up to 20%. After knowing what happened to many of my own class mates I think it would have helped them.
Maybe 150-200 month. I'd do myself if there was a structure to do it. If a tax break to do it even better. Is it all too bleeding heart liberal thinking?

I suggest you do the time warp but focus mainly on the step to the right.

roast

It'd be great to give kids a figure to look up to and motivate them if their parents aren't paying attention, but on the other hand this gives said parents even more motive not to give a fuck.

Rented Mule

Kids don't need money to stay in school.

I'd say that they could use mentors more so than sponsors. There are enough people with their hands out in this country as it is at this point. There is no point in enabling another generation of at-risk kids.

Ray Palmer

D1stant wrote: »

Why?

Why would they be leaving school?

Why is it my problem they are poorly raised?

Why is it my responsability to make their lives a sucess?

It becomes your problem when they become adults with no education. The guy breaking into your house or mugging you isn't likely to have their leaving cert.

If you got no encouragement from family to stay in school you aren't likely to stay. That is even without active discouragement which many experience.

My old headmaster in primary school told me that you can pretty much tell what the kids are going to be like as adults the first day in school.

Have you never seen The Wire?

Why is anything your problem?

J_E

There are already mentoring services out there I believe that you can volunteer for, if you're interested. I know there is one running in Limerick anyway.

HTML5!

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It becomes your problem when they become adults with no education. The guy breaking into your house or mugging you isn't likely to have their leaving cert.

If you got no encouragement from family to stay in school you aren't likely to stay. That is even without active discouragement which many experience.

My old headmaster in primary school told me that you can pretty much tell what the kids are going to be like as adults the first day in school.

Have you never seen The Wire?

Why is anything your problem?

Encouragement does not mean money.

I would absolutely not sponsor a kid to stay in school.

However, I may sponsor a programme which paid for mentor's to work in the school system with these kids.

Give teenagers money to stay in school - ridiculous.

Also, your old headmaster sounds like a bit of a tool.

D1stant

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It becomes your problem when they become adults with no education. The guy breaking into your house or mugging you isn't likely to have their leaving cert.

If you got no encouragement from family to stay in school you aren't likely to stay. That is even without active discouragement which many experience.

My old headmaster in primary school told me that you can pretty much tell what the kids are going to be like as adults the first day in school.

Have you never seen The Wire?

Why is anything your problem?

Oh so you pay upfront not to be mugged later in life.... usnt that what taxes and policing are about?

So where would the money go. Who is it paid to and for what purpose

2nd level education is free. If a teenager cant see the benefit of education then they are a lost cause already - I think your old headmaster might agree

My problems start and end with supporting my familly and friends

Sorry. Well intentioned but daft idea IMHO

Ray Palmer

Some people are obviously unaware some countries do pay to keep children in school.

I pay my taxes for lots of things which fail to materialise. Having some compassion for other people isn't some horrendous thing.

I am not suggesting everyone pays either it is up to the individual.

And yes paying more on education to spend less on prisons certainly is not crazy.

As for your family is your responsibility and others be damned it is exactly the same view a thief has. You have I need

Jericho.

Why not just make child benefit dependent on school attendance?

D1stant

Jericho. wrote: »

Why not just make child benefit dependent on school attendance?

Great idea

Czarcasm

I'd pay for a third level scholarship to ENCOURAGE students to work towards a goal, this idea of paying them just to attend school is ridiculous because it'll only set their sights as far as the day they can join the social welfare queue for what they see as more "free money".

Richard Hillman

Id sponsor a teenager to keep them in prison.

Ray Palmer

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'd pay for a third level scholarship to ENCOURAGE students to work towards a goal, this idea of paying them just to attend school is ridiculous because it'll only set their sights as far as the day they can join the social welfare queue for what they see as more "free money".

I think you may be aiming a higher level than the people I am talking about. It would also be selective and specifically for the people who are trying to get out of the poverty trap.
Not sure you understand that you tend to go along with your social class and family. Very hard to fight all of that and also be able to afford it financially

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I was talk to some friends who work in social services and we discussed how hard some teenagers in deprived areas have it. Parents with no respect for education, substance abuse etc. ..
So we discussed if we sponsored a kid to stay in school would it work. The feeling was it would work with 10% and maybe up to 20%. After knowing what happened to many of my own class mates I think it would have helped them.
Maybe 150-200 month. I'd do myself if there was a structure to do it. If a tax break to do it even better. Is it all too bleeding heart liberal thinking?

If the kid wanted to stay in school, yes. If not, no. I'd sponsor him to do soemthing else.

CreepingDeath

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I was talk to some friends who work in social services and we discussed how hard some teenagers in deprived areas have it. Parents with no respect for education, substance abuse etc. ..
So we discussed if we sponsored a kid to stay in school would it work.

Some large companies have corporate social responsibility programmes, where they fund local schools and the like.

I know of one company which runs a sort of "Dragons Den" type of programme for the local schools, getting them to form teams and compete in various projects. They win prizes and some college sponsorship if they win.
It gets them to work on something meaningful outside of the classroom environment.

There's so many large multinationals in Ireland availing of our corporate tax rate, they should really give a little back to the community instead of just channelling funds through an office.

wolfpawnat

A lot of those who don't want to go to school are the children of the Social Welfare Class. Not the newly unemployed since 2007/2008 but the long term actual spongers, cut the parents SW if their kids aren't attending and attempting school, they will all be top of the class within four weeks.

Chemical Burn

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Is it all too bleeding heart liberal thinking?

Yes

Czarcasm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I think you may be aiming a higher level than the people I am talking about. It would also be selective and specifically for the people who are trying to get out of the poverty trap.
Not sure you understand that you tend to go along with your social class and family. Very hard to fight all of that and also be able to afford it financially

I understand it all too well Ray tbh, having moved out of home mid term in 5th year myself and finishing my second level education while holding down a full time job in Supermacs at the same time to pay my rent and bills and save for my third level fees. I received no maintenance grants, etc as any grant applications were based on my parents income, which I did not wish to be assessed upon. So I also paid my own way through third level by holding down various jobs in bars and so on as I couldn't transfer internally in Supermacs.

A scholarship of some sort would have certainly eased one aspect of my third level education.

I know the idea of the proposal in your OP comes off the back of similar proposals being put forward in Britain, but imho it's only going to encourage lazy students to go through the motions of turning up for roll call and then have them possibly entertain themselves by disrupting the class for the day, making it harder for the students that actually WANT to be there and WANT to go further than a basic second level education.

Perhaps if we REALLY wanted to introduce an incentivised monetary rewards scheme (nothing like teaching a child that bribery gets results!), but if we HAVE to introduce one, then I would suggest monthly assessments, and if the student got a pass rate in their assessment of 85%+, then they would get paid, otherwise- knuckle down and try harder next month.

Pottler

Teenagers in Malta get paid to stay in school. By the State. Just saying like. And it works, by all accounts. Mess about or don't attend, your allowance gets cut. Does tend to focus the mind..

Cavehill Red

Would I sponsor a child to go to school?
I already did. I sent my kid to a private college.

CreepingDeath

Pottler wrote: »

Teenagers in Malta get paid to stay in school.

<Insert bag of maltesers joke here>

Pottler

CreepingDeath wrote: »

<Insert bag of maltesers joke here>

It did cross my mind to stick one in to pre-empt that, but I thought that would be a bit obvious. Also, they don't like it, the Maltese, it makes them cross.

LoocyLoo

Jericho. wrote: »

Why not just make child benefit dependent on school attendance?

What about home-schoolers though?

TheBody

Don't kids get paid to go to Youthreach?

Solobally8

TheBody wrote: »

Don't kids get paid to go to Youthreach?

Beat me to it!

We are already paying for over 5000 teenagers to go to school in Youthreach

TheBody

Solobally8 wrote: »

Beat me to it!

We are already paying for over 5000 teenagers to go to school in Youthreach

Do you know how much each kid gets or how it works?

Solobally8

TheBody wrote: »

Do you know how much each kid gets or how it works?

Big reductions since 2012 so different allowances for new students. New rates are €40 for 16 and 17 year olds, €160 for over 18s. Those already in the system before the changes get between €80 and €188 per week depending on age. They also get a daily meal allowance and travel. Paid holidays too

rainbowtrout

TheBody wrote: »

Do you know how much each kid gets or how it works?

Money is docked for non-attendance. Don't know how much it is though.

TheBody

Solobally8 wrote: »

Big reductions since 2012 so different allowances for new students. New rates are €40 for 16 and 17 year olds, €160 for over 18s. Those already in the system before the changes get between €80 and €188 per week depending on age. They also get a daily meal allowance and travel. Paid holidays too

Thanks for that. Seems pretty generous to me.

byhookorbycrook

By the time a child is school leaving age, the horse has well and truly bolted. Money needs to be put in for pre-school resources.

shruikan2553

If someone wants to leave school then its their problem, after the JC we lost quite a few of the people who would just mess around all day disrupting the class and I see no reason why we should try to encourage them to stay, its there if they want it, they can leave if they dont.

Gran Hermano

We could always legalise abortion and stop funding those who expect others to pay for the upbringing of their offspring via social welfare or sponsorship.

Outkast_IRE

Having witnessed myself a mother dragging her reluctant teen into the welfare office and shouting about how hes done with and school and how "shes wants what hes entitled to " i think there should be no welfare support to teens under 18 . Unless of course they are forced out of the family home due to documented issues.

mikemac1

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I was talk to some friends who work in social services and we discussed how hard some teenagers in deprived areas have it.

What's a deprived area?

I'm near Ballyfermot which has a name and not a good one

But also has multiple pitches, basketball courts, pitch n'putt, council leisure centre, library, computer clubs, training centres, massive FÁS centre and plently more

Deprived?

I don't remember much of this growing up in an average town in the midlads

Your deprived areas OP also have money pumped into them, more money then many other areas get

Its difficult to know if it would make any difference, I think if it was very nuanced and well though out it might help some...I think if it was aimed at getting them in to good habits that they might not be getting from home... for example a small amount of money for attendance every day, on time, in the correct uniform, correct books, with all homework done no matter what your level of ability.


There could be a different help for those that are genuinely very bright but who are handicapped by having disinterested skobie parents.

J_E

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Would I sponsor a child to go to school?
I already did. I sent my kid to a private college.

That's a luxury many can't afford, not to mention you've completely missed the point of this thread.

Blisterman

I agree mentoring is a better option than bribing kids to stay in school. There's a pretty strong correlation between parents and their offspring. People whose parents are alcoholics, drug addicts, violent, etc are much more likely to be those things themselves. Same goes for people whose parents are hard working or educated.


Providing better role models can only have a positive effect in my opinion, in terms of changing attitudes, whereas paying people to go to school just encourages an attitude that only things which pay are worth doing.

Quin_Dub

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Some large companies have corporate social responsibility programmes, where they fund local schools and the like.

I know of one company which runs a sort of "Dragons Den" type of programme for the local schools, getting them to form teams and compete in various projects. They win prizes and some college sponsorship if they win.
It gets them to work on something meaningful outside of the classroom environment.

There's so many large multinationals in Ireland availing of our corporate tax rate, they should really give a little back to the community instead of just channelling funds through an office.

I'm involved in this stuff and think it's a great way of giving back to society

My company work with a charity called "Junior Achievement"

Their aim is to encourage kids to stay in Education as long as possible to improve their opportunities in later life..

Over the last few years I've been going into secondary schools (usually 2nd yr on Transition yr) and delivering courses on Business Acumen , Interview Skills etc. Usually it's 2hrs a week for 8 to 10 weeks.

Personally it's very fulfilling - I get a bit of a buzz watching them pull together to develop the course materials etc.

Currently I'm working with Transition year students on a Enterprise Program where they have to come up with a business idea and setup a company etc. - Ultimately they have to go through a "Dragons Den" style event at the end of the course - This is part of a Europe wide program so if they win through at regional level they can go ahead to National or European events. Last year a school from Limerick won the European award for best Student company.

More people and companies should be encouraged and incentivised to get involved in this kind of effort..

It's not money these kids need , it's role models and encouragement..

Hamiltonion

If kids can't be bothered working then tough titties, I'd agree with the no school - no child benefit though.

Besides, we need people to work crap unskilled jobs

Eden3

I may be kind of already doing it ... not school, but college. My 18 year old son's girlfriend has had an awful time at home ... got steadily worse over time + all about money!

Got to the point when her 1st year college grant hadn't come through - backlogs:mad:, and her parents were basically telling her they wouldn't pay her busfares anymore for her to go. This, combined with dreadful home environment!

Anyway, long story short, she's extremely clever and motivated. Works SO hard and very committed. Grant came through, but trouble at home escalated.

Long story short, she's had to come stay at our house until she can find accommodation near her college, as she just cannot live at home anymore because of the disharmony there.

It's terribly sad - that some kids won't have any intervention and/or help - and Social Welfare becomes their employer!