Water Wells,Septic Tanks

Janrey

Hi all,
Being a jackeen and hoping to move to Clare sometime this year,I am in need o some education regarding septic tanks and wells.Probably seems mad to say,but know nothing about them other than seeing a friend about thirty years ago install a septic tank which involved a dead chicken and some talk about not using too much detergent ! Is there a annual maintenance programme to be carried out with either or both,what are the things to do and not and what for example are the pros and cons compared to mains sewerage and water.I am sure older properties might have one type of tank whilst I see newer ones advertised with various "treatment plants".
Any advice and guidance would be very much appreciated.Thank you

Clareman

I think this website will cover everything you may need

http://www.epa.ie/whatwedo/advice/wastewater/legislation/

In essence, if you can get mains sewerage then the council look after it, if you can't you look after it, everything goes into a tank and it's up to the home owner to look after it. It used to be a local farmer would come along and drain it for you, now it has to be done by a registered person and you have to register your tank as well.

Janrey

Thank you Clareman.Would you or others have a cost ball park figure for the emptying of a tank? I am also curious as to the perceived difference in well water from mains.Is there a noticeable difference and if so what are these differences?

Clareman

I think I heard it's about €200, but could be more, whoever is emptying it for you has to be registered and bring the waste to a certified treatment plant where they'll get you a cert to show your compliant.

Well water will be up to you to manage/treat, it'll literally be straight out of the ground, no chlorine or any chemicals, so it's pure spring water, you will have to pay for the maintenance/installation of any pumps or anything that's needed to get the water out, you'll also have to get it analysed to make sure it's not contaminated. A friend of mine has his own well and the water is nicer than most bottled water you get and he doesn't have to worry about the water being cut off or anything like that cause he's in charge of it himself.

Janrey

Thanks again Clareman

Jim Martin

Water is a massive problem around here - iron is very common & has to be filtered out if you don't want you and all your washing looking brown!

There have also been a lot of problems with modern hi-tec septic tanks as witnessed in The Champion last week!

Jim Martin

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13045:sewerage-problems-devalue-spanish-point-homes&catid=90:planning&Itemid=60

Janrey

Thanks Jim.What is involved in filtering out the iron?

Jim Martin

Janrey wrote: »

Thanks Jim.What is involved in filtering out the iron?

In my case, I have a fairly lo-tec system - (1) using limestone chips in a tank which (a) filters out the iron & (b) neutralises the acidity which comes with the iron (& sulphur dioxide) - (2) a secondary cartridge filter to get rid of any remaining unwanted crud - (3) a UV sterilser to zap any bacteria which may be (it was!) present - total cost about €3k (incl well drilling & installation) at 2001 prices.

Johnboy1951

The efficiency of a septic tank is dependent on what is allowed to go into it.
Detergents kill off bacteria, and if added to the septic tank in sufficient quantities, can stop the natural degradation of the waste, and cause all sorts of problems and force the tank to be emptied quite often.

The chicken in your story above was to 'prime' the tank == ensure there were enough bacteria in there to break down the waste.

IMO, it would be so much better to have three separate systems for treating the three 'types' of waste ......

rain water run off
grey water ... from showers, bath, sink etc which contain cleaning products
waste from toilets

If they are kept separated they can each be treated properly and efficiently, but if they get mixed then the treatment is more difficult and less efficient.

For instance, the rain water run off from down pipes etc, is essentially clean water (relatively) and needs no treatment, but does need to be 'sinked' properly.

As mentioned, if grey water is added to the septic tank, then it reduces the tank's efficiency and causes problems. Aeration helps, but it is more efficient to avoid the problems in the first place. Yet this is the scheme that is promoted by our authorities.

It seems that our authorities aim for the lowest common denominator ....... lump waste and grey water in together and empty the inefficient tank very often to compensate.

I know of septic tanks, which do not receive grey water, (nor rain run-off) that have not needed to be emptied in 10 years and more. Nor might I add have they needed any extra 'priming' in that period.
The 'grey water' is treated separately.
Both 'systems' run efficiently, side by side.

It seems (depending on the interpretation locally) that now those people will have to dispense with their efficient systems, and comply with the lowest common denominator, feed their grey water, untreated, into their septic tank, causing the tank to be inefficient, and likely needing to be replaced by one with aeration, and have it emptied at least once per year and maybe more.

I just love improvements! :rolleyes:

Jim Martin

In my opinion, reed-bed systems are a far, far better way to go with treating sewage, I can't understand why the government & local authorities don't encourage them much more!

http://www.reedbedsirl.com/Home

Obliq

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The efficiency of a septic tank is dependent on what is allowed to go into it.
Detergents kill off bacteria, and if added to the septic tank in sufficient quantities, can stop the natural degradation of the waste, and cause all sorts of problems and force the tank to be emptied quite often.

The chicken in your story above was to 'prime' the tank == ensure there were enough bacteria in there to break down the waste.

IMO, it would be so much better to have three separate systems for treating the three 'types' of waste ......

rain water run off
grey water ... from showers, bath, sink etc which contain cleaning products
waste from toilets

If they are kept separated they can each be treated properly and efficiently, but if they get mixed then the treatment is more difficult and less efficient.

For instance, the rain water run off from down pipes etc, is essentially clean water (relatively) and needs no treatment, but does need to be 'sinked' properly.

As mentioned, if grey water is added to the septic tank, then it reduces the tank's efficiency and causes problems. Aeration helps, but it is more efficient to avoid the problems in the first place. Yet this is the scheme that is promoted by our authorities.

It seems that our authorities aim for the lowest common denominator ....... lump waste and grey water in together and empty the inefficient tank very often to compensate.

I know of septic tanks, which do not receive grey water, (nor rain run-off) that have not needed to be emptied in 10 years and more. Nor might I add have they needed any extra 'priming' in that period.
The 'grey water' is treated separately.
Both 'systems' run efficiently, side by side.

It seems (depending on the interpretation locally) that now those people will have to dispense with their efficient systems, and comply with the lowest common denominator, feed their grey water, untreated, into their septic tank, causing the tank to be inefficient, and likely needing to be replaced by one with aeration, and have it emptied at least once per year and maybe more.

I just love improvements! :rolleyes:

It's all mad Ted. I'm also a bit unimpressed about this idea of having the grey water run into the same tank as the sewerage. The way my tank is at the moment (too full for comfort) is JUST the sewerage and the grey water goes through a grease trap and then into a sink hole that was dug out by a digger years ago and filled with 2" stone (or bigger - not sure). That's the way it was when I got here. Needs doing again though - if I'm let

Now, seemingly, to pass the upcoming inspection, I'll need to join up the grey water to the tank altogether. This year the tank isn't working properly as it is - time to get it pumped out for sure. However, I can't find anyone with a small enough truck to get to the tank and nobody with a pipe long enough to reach from the yard.....must go looking for a farmer who doesn't mind "bending the rules" a little...

Thing is, it's the rain over the last few years that's really affecting the tank. I can't see how adding grey water to it is going to help at all, considering the water table around me is above ground level now, sigh....there's a stream running through my garden for 2 years now, every time it rains, where there never was one before.

No way can I afford to get the right job done either.
Solution? Build a compost toilet and have done with it, I reckon.

Janrey

This certainly seems like crazy making.... running off the grey water making sense and these donkeys now want it all run together in to the septic tank...mad

Obliq

Janrey wrote: »

This certainly seems like crazy making.... running off the grey water making sense and these donkeys now want it all run together in to the septic tank...mad

Well, running off the grey water is illegal It's full of detergent and fat, so needs filtering through something. What I have (a big trench full of stone) doesn't cut it at all apparently, although it's got to be better than a constantly overflowing sceptic tank.

Fella I know (a builder) says it'd cost around 18,000 for the type of system that could deal with the water table in these parts....Can't wait to see what the part-payment scheme is like that the govt. come up with (if you're registered). What will they do when people can't pay? Put it on the ESB bill till that gets cut off too?! :eek:

I'm seriously considering the compost toilet! Let the grey water go off into the tank and forget about it!

Janrey

Sorry Obliq,I meant to run the grey off into some percolation system but I see you say that this doesn't work either.But it will be interesting to see what the part payment is.The problem is that once registered and if the payment is no use,snookered.When you say "these parts" ,can I ask what neck of the woods you are in.It seems if I buy an old house which might need a new tank,then €18k is a lot to be allowing for

Obliq

Janrey wrote: »

Sorry Obliq,I meant to run the grey off into some percolation system but I see you say that this doesn't work either.But it will be interesting to see what the part payment is.The problem is that once registered and if the payment is no use,snookered.When you say "these parts" ,can I ask what neck of the woods you are in.It seems if I buy an old house which might need a new tank,then €18k is a lot to be allowing for

I'm in East Clare Janrey - quite near Lough Derg so I can expect to be in the band width for inspection I'd say most old houses (meaning pre 60's/70's) will need new tanks - but I just don't know at all. I also think the type of tank you'd be obliged to get will totally depend on how near you are to a major water source - most people will get away with a new ordinary tank I suppose.

Just to be clearer - that's what the builder told me he thought it would take to actually FIX the local ground-water problem of flooding the tanks. That doesn't at all mean that's what the govt will want me to do. Maybe another case of "just replace the tank, even if it won't work any better than the old one, we've been seen to do it" :rolleyes:

Btw, I'd say the tank being registered is a condition of sale at this stage. I know someone just selling a place and they had to get an early inspection/tank replacement (well, it's being tested but the initial signs aren't good apparently).

Edit: Don't quote me on any of this - I'm only speculating! We'll all see soon enough I suppose.