Penalty Points & Drink Driving

Sully

Two questions if I may. Hypothetical situations, not connected to anything that may or may not be happening to any individual famous or infamous.

Scenario 1:
Your driving over the speed limit, get pulled over by the lads and given a telling off and told you will receive a fine and points in the post. Darn it. Time for a letter to the Gardai. Is it the Sargent or Super you write your letter hoping he/she will agree to wipe the slate clean?

Scenario 2:
Your driving over the speed limit, get pulled over by the lads and given a telling off and told you will receive a fine and points in the post. Darn it. Pay the fine, get the points. Can I ask the Gardai to wipe it clean at this stage - even if they were willing, can the system be edited to remove my points?

In both those scenarios - is it legal, illegal, proper or improper to wipe the fine and points if the Garda in question feels I have due cause and shouldn't be going to court to contest or appeal?

Scenario 3:
I'm driving around town and the Gardai get suspicious about my driving. So they pull me over and ask to do a breath test. If I pass, can I request to go to the station and provide another test? If so, what tests can I do? Can I be requested to do a particular test ahead of another? Likewise, if I fail, I assume I am required to attend the station to perform a more accurate test - so can I choose?

If I go back to the station and request a urine or blood sample - does a doctor/nurse need to be present, thus delaying things and perhaps being closer to being cleared in the corresponding test? Iv often seen this done in the UK Police programs so wondered is it the same here.

Zambia

I would be curious about that to in the sense can you refuse an EBT in favour of urine?

idmig

Sully wrote: »

Two questions if I may. Hypothetical situations, not connected to anything that may or may not be happening to any individual famous or infamous.

Scenario 1:
Your driving over the speed limit, get pulled over by the lads and given a telling off and told you will receive a fine and points in the post. Darn it. Time for a letter to the Gardai. Is it the Sargent or Super you write your letter hoping he/she will agree to wipe the slate clean?

Super, and if you make a case such as family/medical emergency with supporting correspondence it will be looked at and a decision made after veification

Scenario 2:
Your driving over the speed limit, get pulled over by the lads and given a telling off and told you will receive a fine and points in the post. Darn it. Pay the fine, get the points. Can I ask the Gardai to wipe it clean at this stage - even if they were willing, can the system be edited to remove my points?

Points cannot be "wiped" after imposition, they will "die" after the three years elapses.

In both those scenarios - is it legal, illegal, proper or improper to wipe the fine and points if the Garda in question feels I have due cause and shouldn't be going to court to contest or appeal?

In the first scenario, it is at the discretion of the Super and is therefore legal and proper. Second scenario legality or propriety doesn't arise.

Scenario 3:
I'm driving around town and the Gardai get suspicious about my driving. So they pull me over and ask to do a breath test. If I pass, can I request to go to the station and provide another test? If so, what tests can I do? Can I be requested to do a particular test ahead of another? Likewise, if I fail, I assume I am required to attend the station to perform a more accurate test - so can I choose?

You cannot request a different test after a pass. If you fail, you may be "required" to do an evidential breath test. You have no choice but to do this. If for some reason, the evidential breath test equipment is not available or suitable, e.g. broken or medical condition such as asthma, then you will be "required" to allow a doctor take a sample of your blood. At this point you can exercise an option to provide a sample of urine.



If I go back to the station and request a urine or blood sample - does a doctor/nurse need to be present, thus delaying things and perhaps being closer to being cleared in the corresponding test? Iv often seen this done in the UK Police programs so wondered is it the same here.

There is a three hour time period from the time of driving to take these samples. Hope that answers the various scenarios and questions

Sully

Few follow up questions if I may;
- I assume points are only applied to an individual if the fine is paid to the Gardai and they then somehow inform the NRA?

- If the Guard has entered the details into PULSE of the offense, can the Super still reverse the charge/cancel the points? Or is it only if the Guard hasn't entered into the system?

- If I fail a breath test, is it correct that I then must do a breath test in the station? I can't refuse and request a urine / blood test? If the machine is broken or I have a genuine reason why I can't do the breath test in the station - have I a choice re: Urine or Blood test? And in the event I need to do these tests, I get three hours to 'sweat it out' before ill be tested so if I am just over the limit, the odds are it will be out of my system by the time the test is done?

pa990

hmmmmmm...

where's this going ?



Mr thinks OP should consult a solicitor rather than an online forum, but that's just me.

smellsfunny

If your got speeding and drink driving, 99% of gaurds will not let you off unless you know a gaurd in the local station or a seargent in another station

Potential-Monke

Sully wrote: »

Few follow up questions if I may;
- I assume points are only applied to an individual if the fine is paid to the Gardai and they then somehow inform the NRA?

When you pay the fine, you have to have your licence with you, and upon payment the points are added.

Sully wrote: »

- If the Guard has entered the details into PULSE of the offense, can the Super still reverse the charge/cancel the points? Or is it only if the Guard hasn't entered into the system?

The Super can decide to cancel the incident even if it is on Pulse, however, once the payment is made, there is no way of reversing it.

Sully wrote: »

-
1: If I fail a breath test, is it correct that I then must do a breath test in the station?
2: I can't refuse and request a urine / blood test?
3: If the machine is broken or I have a genuine reason why I can't do the breath test in the station - have I a choice re: Urine or Blood test?
4: And in the event I need to do these tests, I get three hours to 'sweat it out' before ill be tested so if I am just over the limit, the odds are it will be out of my system by the time the test is done?

1: Yes, once you fail you are arrested on suspicion of drink driving, and are conveyed to the station to provide a breath specimen.
2: If you refuse, you get charged with fail/refusal, which carries the same penalty as if you came back at the maximum you could.
3: Yes, you are given a specific talk and in that talk you are given the option of blood or urine, both of which have to be taken by a Doctor.
4: If you are arrested, the Gardai have 3 hours from the time of the offence to get these samples, not that you have to wait 3 hours (you have to wait 20 minutes minimum by law). This is to allow emergency medical treatment in the case of any injuries sustained in a traffic accident with the possibilty of alcohol being involved.

Zambia

smellsfunny wrote: »

If your got speeding and drink driving, 99% of gaurds will not let you off unless you know a gaurd in the local station or a seargent in another station

I heard pub talk of this in the 90's never confirmed.

I doubt this occurs now.

meathstevie

If you're caught drink driving and speeding at the same time you'll end up in court and the principal evidence will be the reading from the sample ( be it blood, urine or breath ) and the Garda observation that you were driving at the time.

The conviction and driving disqualification you'll pick up at the end of the story can include the speeding offence as well but it's ultimately at the discretion of the district court judge to make up their mind on that.

Potential-Monke

Zambia wrote: »

I heard pub talk of this in the 90's never confirmed.

I doubt this occurs now.

Once you're gone through the custody record, or the "books" if you will, especially when it comes to drink driving, there is little to nothing can be done.

irishrgr

Interesting...works different over here. Police pull you over for traffic violation (speeding, no lights, etc...anything legal). Officer believes you may be intoxicated...(smells alcohol, slurred speech, etc). Administers field sobriety test (walk the line, recite alphabet backwards, etc...you've seen it on TV). Fail test...arrested, brought to jail. Second field sobriety test administered, (all recorded on video), warrant issued, blood drawn by jail nurse. After that, it goes to court.

Every effort is made to video everything, very detailled report...whole thing takes about three hours. Even if you go to court and beat it on a tchnical issue or even found not guilty, it'll still cost you about ten grand in court fees & lawyer fees etc.

It's a very scripted process, reports reviewd by a SGT before submission...all to make sure it's a good case. I wish be buggers would just get a taxi, too much paperwork.

Zambia

irishrgr wrote: »

Interesting...works different over here. Police pull you over for traffic violation (speeding, no lights, etc...anything legal). Officer believes you may be intoxicated...(smells alcohol, slurred speech, etc). Administers field sobriety test (walk the line, recite alphabet backwards, etc...you've seen it on TV). Fail test...arrested, brought to jail. Second field sobriety test administered, (all recorded on video), warrant issued, blood drawn by jail nurse. After that, it goes to court.

Every effort is made to video everything, very detailled report...whole thing takes about three hours. Even if you go to court and beat it on a tchnical issue or even found not guilty, it'll still cost you about ten grand in court fees & lawyer fees etc.

It's a very scripted process, reports reviewd by a SGT before submission...all to make sure it's a good case. I wish be buggers would just get a taxi, too much paperwork.

Irish the charge for all this would be driving under the influence I assume. Here it appears the op is being charged with an exceed prescribed concentration of alcohol offence.

The charge would be proven as long as the reading is above a certain level.

deadwood

Claire, surely even a td of de people can afford a solicitor?

irishrgr

Yes, the charge here would be Driving While Intoxicated...note, here it doesent have to be intoxication as a result of alcohol, it could be drugs too. Mind you the preponderance of it of course is alcohol but the blood test does a broad screen just in case.

The only other offense we have in TX is "Public Intoxication" which has a lower standard of proof compared to the above (but it also has lower penalties). For a PI, if, in th eopinion of the oficer, you appear to be intoxicated (slurred, speech, unsteady, etc), then you can be nicked for it. 99% of the PI's get community service and a small fine.

I've done people for PI where I may not be able to get a DWI. Obviously drinking but maybe able to pass the FST etc. It gets them off the street, still gets their car towed, etc. Not ideal but you can't win them all.

Zambia

Loss of licence as well I presume ?

irishrgr

Yes, if you are arrested for DWI, your license is automatically suspended for 90 days under administrative law. It's reinstated after that until you go to court for the DWI, then a judge will decide where it goes from there.

Most people will lawyer up big time, suponea the officers whole personnel file, training records, go into great detail on the evidence looking for the slightest thing to throw the case out. 99% request a jury trail too...on the basis that most people drink (and by default drive home) and have a "there but for the grase of God go I...." attitude. Best evidence though is video, you show a jury a "drunk car" (swerving, sppeding, etc) and an oviously scuttered driver (stumbling, slurred speech, falling down, fighting, etc) you'll get a conviction to include jail time, fines and then your insurance will stick it to you. A lot of employers won't hire a DWI if you have to drive for work....

sdanseo

pa990 wrote: »

hmmmmmm...

where's this going ?



Mr thinks OP should consult a solicitor rather than an online forum, but that's just me.

They're hypothetical questions. Once he maintains that, don't worry your head about whether or not he's being provided with legal advice - all people are doing is confirming the law.

If you're worried about operational matters going public, that's fine, but nothing here discussed has been outside the public domain - if you're trying to have the topic closed because a perfectly legal discussion might encourage people to excercise their legal right to use the law to their advantage, then jog on. All that attidue does is give an impression of AGS as a closed minded, closed shop - which it is not.