crimes, charges and convictions in absentia

Dermighty

Hi all,

I'm a bouncer and recently I was bitten on the arm by a customer, a clear case of assault, according to the arresting gardai, I filled out a statement and the Gardai said it qualified for a section 3 assault, ie: assault causing harm.

The person who did it was out the night he bit me for his going away party/session as he was going to Australia a few days later (3 days). the night of the incident I was gone to the hospital just as they put cuffs on the guy, so I never got to speak to anyone about it that night.

The guy ended up going to Australia three days after, something which angered me as I would have liked for him to answer for his crime before he disappeared for a year or potentially longer.

I'm not sure where I stand, as the statement still had to be presented to the desk sergeant (as of monday 21st January) to get it put through (or something along those lines).

The garda who arrested him took my statement and said it qualified for section 3 assault, that the guy had a list of priors (all petty stuff) and that he would most likely be convicted based on that and that he most likely wouldn't even contest it.

So now that the guy is at the other side of the planet can I pursue this while he is away and get a conviction in his absence.

Thanks,
Dermighty.

Pat Mustard

Dermighty wrote: »

So now that the guy is at the other side of the planet can I pursue this while he is away and get a conviction in his absence.

I doubt it, where he was looking at possible prison sentence. That's from the criminal side.

From the civil side, you could look into bringing proceedings, but you'd have to wonder if there is any realistic prospect of recovering any money from a guy like that.

See link to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme so you can check time limits for the application.

I would keep in written contact with the investigating Garda.

Section 3 assault, in case you were interested.

Kosseegan

Once bitten, twice shy.

valleyoftheunos

You can still pursue a civil claim against him for compensation (as opposed to a criminal charge which is a matter for the Gardai and Director of Public Prosecutions). although actually getting paid may be difficult.

You might also qualify for compensation, the Department of justice operates a scheme which will pay your expenses (hospital bills and the like) but unfortunately won't give you compensation for your pain and suffering.

You can find out more here.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/victims_of_crime/victims_and_compensation.html

Victor

I wonder what the effect of a solicitors letter to the Australian Embassy would be?

Pat Mustard

Victor wrote: »

I wonder what the effect of a solicitors letter to the Australian Embassy would be?

Interesting.

He hasn't been convicted of the current assault.

However, if this guy has several previous convictions, then one would wonder why the Aussies gave him a visa in the first place. It could well be that he didn't disclose his previous convictions to the Aussies and that they might revoke his visa if they found out.

If the Gardai were willing, a letter from them might be even more effective. I don't know if they do that.

Dermighty

I would prefer a conviction over money.

I'll get on to the gardai and and suss out whther a letter would be effective or not. My father is a solicitor so I should ask him really :P

Zambia

Dermighty wrote: »

I would prefer a conviction over money.

I'll get on to the gardai and and suss out whther a letter would be effective or not. My father is a solicitor so I should ask him really :P

Op chances are the guy is on a one year working holiday visa. I would let the Garda finish the brief get it before a court.

Once everything is ready to go he will come back and by then a warrant might even be out for him.

Unless there is a statute issue?

Pat Mustard

Zambia wrote: »

Unless there is a statute issue?

Not if it's section 3 assault, assault causing harm.

Zambia

The Mustard wrote: »

Not if it's section 3 assault, assault causing harm.

So if summons unable to be served will it become a warrant?

ResearchWill

Zambia wrote: »

So if summons unable to be served will it become a warrant?

No it means that as the issue is section 3 Non Fatal offences against the person it can be tried either as a summary matter, or by indictment, if tried as a summary matter then 6 months to apply for summons if decision to go indictment no statutory time limit to start proceedings.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0003.html#sec3

Also if it is decided to go summary, once the summons applied for within six months then it can be served any time, of course the Defendant can raise a delay argument.

Zambia

I see here there is a subsituted service provision in law which lead to this case.

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2010/10/27/251505_back-paddock.html

MOST villains are smart enough to know they have to be personally handed a summons or other court order for it to be legal.

They usually make themselves scarce when the coppers turn up at their house holding an envelope.

But in an Australian first, an offender has been successfully served with an intervention order via social media site Facebook.

Victoria Police had tried serving the order in person but with no luck.

So they lodged it on the man's Facebook site which the court deemed to be legit.

Ironically the alleged offences included using Facebook to bully and harass the victim.

There's a sort of poetic justice in all that, isn't there?

Failing that if the summons was issued could it be served for the state by lets say a solicitor, private investigator in another country.

Pat Mustard

Zambia wrote: »

I see here there is a subsituted service provision in law which lead to this case.

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2010/10/27/251505_back-paddock.html


Failing that if the summons was issued could it be served for the state by lets say a solicitor, private investigator in another country.

Link to May 2012 Gazette (see p.5)

On 28 March 2012, Mr Justice Michael Peart granted an order allowing the service of legal proceedings via Facebook...

ResearchWill wrote: »

No it means that as the issue is section 3 Non Fatal offences against the person it can be tried either as a summary matter, or by indictment, if tried as a summary matter then 6 months to apply for summons if decision to go indictment no statutory time limit to start proceedings.

S.177 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 states that the 6 month time limit imposed by s.10(4) of the Petty Sessions Act does not apply to this type of offence, so no time limit will apply whether the offence is tried summarily or on indictment:

7.— Paragraph 4 (which prescribes time limits for the making of complaints in cases of summary jurisdiction) of section 10 of the Petty Sessions (Ireland) Act 1851 shall not apply to a complaint in respect of:

(a) a scheduled offence, or

(b) an offence that is triable—
(i) at the election of the prosecution, either on indictment or summarily, or
(ii) either on indictment or, subject to certain conditions including the consent of the prosecution, summarily.”.

(2) This section shall not have effect in relation to an offence committed before the commencement of this section.

Delay would be another matter, as you pointed out.

Dermighty

Some really helpful bits of info, thanks a lot.

I'd really like if his trip was cut short.

Victor

The Mustard wrote: »

Delay would be another matter, as you pointed out.

While not conclusive, there would be the issue that the accused absented themselves from the country voluntarily immediately after the event.

Pat Mustard

Victor wrote: »

While not conclusive, there would be the issue that the accused absented themselves from the country voluntarily immediately after the event.

Yep.

From a defence point of view, delay can be a tough one to bring home anyway. It doesn't help if the defendant's conduct is one of the reasons for the delay.

Zambia

Dermighty wrote: »

I'd really like if his trip was cut short.

There is no real way of getting him home, he is over here now and chances are he will do his year and go home.

However should he want a further visa he will have to answer the questionaire like in Part D of this form.

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1150.pdf

He could also decide to remain illegally.

Dermighty

It was such a random occurance and so unwarranted that I want to push this as far as I can.

thanks folks.

ThreeLineWhip

The immigration would start looking for him if he did not renew or leave the country.