So, bigotry eh?

ninty9er

I know there's only one side here, but saw this today on Facebook. I don't know either party, but I've met one of them through friends once.

I was not surprised that it would happen, but I'm surprised it would happen in an Irish city in 2013.

If it transpired as described I hope the security guard in question is disqualified from holding a private security licence for life, as well as any conviction.

mr.anonymous

I looked at their facebook page just there. I think the original message was removed.

There are loads of comments there from others saying what happened in Dame St(? - doesn't really make a difference) is a disgrace.

Doop

Its a crappy story alright, cant believe that kind of carry on.

Lots of people commenting in support of the two lads on spar's fb page link Still lots of people saying they dont want to see 2 people snogging(regardless of gender) in a shop
which I can understand but none of us know whether it was snoging or just a simple kiss, doesnt make much difference in my opinion
and im sure we can all agree a straight couple would not have received the same treatment.

To be honest tho it will work against them that the lad pushed the security gaurd, which i dont blame him for, are we just supposed to stand there and take such abuse? but it apportions blame on both sides. Doubtful the cctv will have any sound either.

Stuff like this makes it so difficult to be comfortable when you're out with a partner. I went out with a guy who would never display any affection in public unless in a gay bar. Even a simple peck on the cheek was a struggle. Stuff like this only enforces the idea that you cant express any affection towards each other when in public.

L.Jenkins

In all honesty, that sort of carry on is uncalled for. I hope they reported it to the authorities.

drunkmonkey

Itzy wrote: »

In all honesty, that sort of carry on is uncalled for. I hope they reported it to the authorities.

They were on a private premises doing something that would offend a lot of people. I'm not sure what the authorities could do, they were asked to leave the shop and didn't, tbh they we lucky they aren't arrested for d&d.
Disgraceful comments on Spar's page which aren't doing anyone any favours.

floggg

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They were on a private premises doing something that would offend a lot of people. I'm not sure what the authorities could do, they were asked to leave the shop and didn't, tbh they we lucky they aren't arrested for d&d.
Disgraceful comments on Spar's page which aren't doing anyone any favours.

Were you there? How do you know they were drunk? And where is the disorderly behaviour?

Now I'm not going to get carried away because there two sides to every story, and then the truth somewhere in the middle. But if what is alleged is true, then it's appalling and I hope spar take appropriate action.

gawker

I think it's great to see so many people on the Spar FB page support the couple concerned. I also think calls to boycott Spar are way off. If they did nothing then fair enough, but they seem to be trying to get to the bottom of it. Fingers crossed. This sort of this is just sad...

L.Jenkins

The above comments are uncalled for and I'm not impressed that Spar have allowed this to go on.

Soldering_Iorn

This is an odd situation. I can understand how people could possibly feel uncomfortable but only if the two guys out right shifting the face off each other, which I'm going to assume they were, as I feel a peck on the lips/cheek here and there would generally go a miss.

I'm in no way condoning this but gay couples have to respect other peoples views. I mean some people may think its lovely to see two guys together, whilst for others it could definitely make their hate stronger!

End of the day, bouncers are in such a job that they cannot (well, should not!) be bias in anyway when it comes to race, gender, sexuality etc.

As for the Facebook comments (EDIT: *above), well that's just AN OUTRIGHT FUUKING DISGRACE! :mad:

EDIT: As for the majority of comments on the page, it's great to see people are being so supportive! This makes me happy.


____________

Annasopra

mr.anonymous wrote: »

I looked at their facebook page just there. I think the original message was removed.

There are loads of comments there from others saying what happened in Dame St(? - doesn't really make a difference) is a disgrace.

It hasn't been removed
The message is still there

ixoy

Soldering_Iorn wrote: »

I'm in no way condoning this but gay couples have to respect other peoples views. I mean some people may think its lovely to see two guys together, whilst for others it could definitely make their hate stronger!

You most certainly do not have to respect those views. You can be wary of them, acknowledge their existence, but that's different from respecting them.

Doop

Those comments above from fb are pretty saddening... but there always idiots the world that im confident will never change but its encouraging to see over 6500 likes on the original comment. guess we just have to ignore the idiots.

link to orginal comment ... https://www.facebook.com/SPARIreland/posts/522421137778530

Annasopra

ixoy wrote: »

You most certainly do not have to respect those views. You can be wary of them, acknowledge their existence, but that's different from respecting them.

Agreed. Sorry but I think if LGBT people respected everyones views we would be decades behind in terms. I think we can respect that people are entitled to views and opinions. That doesn't we have to respect the giews and opinions.

apache

Not on facebook so didn't see this. But they are on Adrian Kennedy show on FM104 now. They rang in.

Wasn't there so can't comment.

Artful_Badger

The fact he called the guys ******s (if indeed he did) destroys any defence he may come up with. Private shop or not, kissing policy or not, he made it a discriminatory action in how he referred to them when he tried to get them to leave.

L.Jenkins

There's no place in society to respect such opinions. What has been posted from Facebook so far has shown the worst of the worst.

Soldering_Iorn

ixoy wrote: »

You most certainly do not have to respect those views. You can be wary of them, acknowledge their existence, but that's different from respecting them.

Respect one another is what I believe.

Respect that some people are not 100% cool with the idea of two lads together.

I'm not saying respect the hatred or tainted views that people may hold against gay couples.

I am saying respect others!

drunkmonkey

Artful_Badger wrote: »

The fact he called the guys ******s (if indeed he did) destroys any defence he may come up with. Private shop or not, kissing policy or not, he made it a discriminatory action in how he referred to them when he tried to get them to leave.

First off the guys acting inappropriately in a private premises, secondly one of the guys dragged their friend down through the shop and finally pushed the security guard.
The use of the word ****** is not the issue it's the 2 guys behavior. They were out of order. Gay or straight is of no matter, 2 straight guys would have been kicked out for the same thing. They were asked to leave and they should have done so.

apache

drunkmonkey wrote: »

First off the guys acting inappropriately in a private premises, secondly one of the guys dragged their friend down through the shop and finally pushed the security guard.
The use of the word ****** is not the issue it's the 2 guys behavior. They were out of order. Gay or straight is of no matter, 2 straight guys would have been kicked out for the same thing. They were asked to leave and they should have done so.

Theres always two sides to every story. Or actually three. Their side, the security guys side and the truth.

Probably a lot of sloppiness in fairness going on late on a sunday after the G.

Cosmic Maybe

Itzy wrote: »

The above comments are uncalled for and I'm not impressed that Spar have allowed this to go on.

While I agree that this sort of thing is unacceptable I don't think its fair to say Spar have allowed this to go on. This is the actions of one employee, and from reading their own comments on Facebook they seem to be looking into it. Also, so far we've only heard one side of the story and as everyone knows there's always at least two.

Soldering_Iorn

drunkmonkey wrote: »

First off the guys acting inappropriately in a private premises, secondly one of the guys dragged their friend down through the shop and finally pushed the security guard.
The use of the word ****** is not the issue it's the 2 guys behavior. They were out of order. Gay or straight is of no matter, 2 straight guys would have been kicked out for the same thing. They were asked to leave and they should have done so.

Not being a dick, but are two straight guys shifting not in fact two gay guys?

Artful_Badger

drunkmonkey wrote: »

First off the guys acting inappropriately in a private premises, secondly one of the guys dragged their friend down through the shop and finally pushed the security guard.
The use of the word ****** is not the issue it's the 2 guys behavior. They were out of order. Gay or straight is of no matter, 2 straight guys would have been kicked out for the same thing. They were asked to leave and they should have done so.

The use of the word ****** is the issue as it makes his actions discriminatory. If it was two black people kissing and he called them **** and told them to leave his actions would have been racist. Two travellers he called knackers and told to leave, same thing.

If the issue was them kissing then the security guard had no reason to use homophobic slurs.

To add. I seriously doubt Spars policy is to kick people who kiss out of the shop, ask them to stop yes, but to kick them out ? Hardly.

Annasopra

apache wrote: »

Theres always two sides to every story. Or actually three. Their side, the security guys side and the truth.

Probably a lot of sloppiness in fairness going on late on a sunday after the G.

Yeah - that's the thing.

I hate when people just hop on a bandwagon like this without knowing the full story. The amount of outraged people on spars facebook page is ridiculous.

The racist crap on there is also really bloody annoying

Annasopra

drunkmonkey wrote: »

First off the guys acting inappropriately in a private premises, secondly one of the guys dragged their friend down through the shop and finally pushed the security guard.
The use of the word ****** is not the issue it's the 2 guys behavior. They were out of order. Gay or straight is of no matter, 2 straight guys would have been kicked out for the same thing. They were asked to leave and they should have done so.

I don't know what happened. If the security guard did call them fag gots that is a significant issue.

drunkmonkey

mango salsa wrote: »

I don't know what happened. If the security guard did call them fag gots that is a significant issue.

It's a factor but by their own admission, one "dragged the other through the store and assaulted a security guard. The use of the word ****** goes straight out the window when they start that messing.
Calling someone a ****** and hitting someone are 2 completely different things, those guys can not be defended in any way for their actions.
I see they are in no hurry to face up to spar or at least contact them, not only did they cause a scene in their store they followed it up with facebook slander. There so out of order it's not funny.

L.Jenkins

The security guard it would appear didn't do himself any favours with the liberal use of the word and it may have been a contributing factor in a provocation of both people.

Cavehill Red

These lads aren't doing the gay community any favours here.
There's no excuse for any form of PDA in a shop, gay, straight or otherwise. Also, a shop has the right to refuse trade, and you can expect them to if you assault their staff.
It doesn't in the slightest excuse the insulting and offensive language from the security guard. But nor does it make that the substantive issue.
I think the bottom line here is that if these lads had any sort of case, they'd be speaking to their solicitors today instead of attention-seeking on Facebook.

Annasopra

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's a factor but by their own admission, one "dragged the other through the store and assaulted a security guard. The use of the word ****** goes straight out the window when they start that messing.
Calling someone a ****** and hitting someone are 2 completely different things, those guys can not be defended in any way for their actions.
I see they are in no hurry to face up to spar or at least contact them, not only did they cause a scene in their store they followed it up with facebook slander. There so out of order it's not funny.

Again - none of us know the full story

Annasopra

Cavehill Red wrote: »

These lads aren't doing the gay community any favours here.
There's no excuse for any form of PDA in a shop, gay, straight or otherwise. Also, a shop has the right to refuse trade, and you can expect them to if you assault their staff.
It doesn't in the slightest excuse the insulting and offensive language from the security guard. But nor does it make that the substantive issue.
I think the bottom line here is that if these lads had any sort of case, they'd be speaking to their solicitors today instead of attention-seeking on Facebook.

I won't comment on a lot of your post because again you seem to be assuming that everything in the public domain is exactly what happened.

This not doing the gay community thing any favours is a bit ridiculous. They are males from Dublin. We could easily turn around and say - they're not doing men any favours or Dublin people any favours - that is just lazy generalising.

PDA - I dunno - personally I see absolutely no harm whatsoever in holding hands or a light peck on the cheek.

Cavehill Red

mango salsa wrote: »

I won't comment on a lot of your post because again you seem to be assuming that everything in the public domain is exactly what happened.

This not doing the gay community thing any favours is a bit ridiculous. They are males from Dublin. We could easily turn around and say - they're not doing men any favours or Dublin people any favours - that is just lazy generalising.

PDA - I dunno - personally I see absolutely no harm whatsoever in holding hands or a light peck on the cheek.

They're trying to make their making a scene in a late night shop into a gay rights issue, so it will inevitably reflect on the gay community here. That is what, I'd suggest, has led to the various knuckle draggers emerging from under their rocks to post sh!te on the facebook page.
As for PDAs, we'll agree to disagree. There's such a thing as decorum and respect for those around you. Holding hands I have no problem with, as people hold hands for many reasons. But it's not a big ask to expect people to leave the tongue-wrestling for a more private surroundings.
Finally, I don't remotely claim to know the truth of the matter. But I think it is certainly reasonable to comment on the version provided. One hardly assumes that any other version shows those two lads in any better a light than their own self-serving account.

Soldering_Iorn

Cavehill Red wrote: »

They're trying to make their making a scene in a late night shop into a gay rights issue, so it will inevitably reflect on the gay community here. That is what, I'd suggest, has led to the various knuckle draggers emerging from under their rocks to post sh!te on the facebook page.
As for PDAs, we'll agree to disagree. There's such a thing as decorum and respect for those around you. Holding hands I have no problem with, as people hold hands for many reasons. But it's not a big ask to expect people to leave the tongue-wrestling for a more private surroundings.
Finally, I don't remotely claim to know the truth of the matter. But I think it is certainly reasonable to comment on the version provided. One hardly assumes that any other version shows those two lads in any better a light than their own self-serving account.

+ 1

L.Jenkins

Think this thread has gone some what off course. Initially it would appear the topic of discussion concerned posts on facebook, which were rather nasty in response to the main post regarding the previous night.

Firstly, the comments were down right nasty and people should sense and show some thought and consideration when they post online. Yes maybe these lads should have kept there affection at home, but the security guards name calling was definately uncalled for.

We don't know the full story yet, so is it really our place to comment until we know all the facts?

ninty9er

PDA is extremely common in all sorts of establishments in the early AM. I'm not asserting we know the full story, just saying that if it had been a guy and girl I don't imagine anything would have been said, or if it was, would have been something the order if "save it for later" etc...

The reaction to the described situation was stooping to the described behaviour, but depending on the situation, we don't know whether it was reasonable force or not.

Annasopra

ninty9er wrote: »

The reaction to the described situation was stooping to the described behaviour, but depending on the situation, we don't know whether it was reasonable force or not.

Agreed. We really do not know the full story so saying the two guys "assaulted" the bouncer may be completely false.

Hilly Bill

Seeing that you dont know the full story , the actions of the bouncer and the 2 men in question may be false then ?

Annasopra

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Seeing that you dont know the full story , the actions of the bouncer and the 2 men in question may be false then ?

Yes.

As I've said repeatedly noone knows the full story of what happened.

Hilly Bill

mango salsa wrote: »

Yes.

As I've said repeatedly noone knows the full story of what happened.

Someone must do.

apache

The CCTV camera does and any witnesses. Although theres no sound on CCTV.

Annasopra

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Someone must do.

What's your point?

Hilly Bill

mango salsa wrote: »

What's your point?

What do you mean whats my point? You said that nobody knows what really happened and i said that someone must do. I wasnt starting a debate about it
.

Cavehill Red

mango salsa wrote: »

Yes.

As I've said repeatedly noone knows the full story of what happened.

Perhaps the thread title could be amended to 'So, an unsubstantiated allegation we probably shouldn't discuss, eh?'

L.Jenkins

Thread has gone off topic, so I'm locking it for now and will discuss it with the other mods.