Rental contract - advice

Dublin21

Hi,

I am currently in rented accommodation which i love but we have had some issues regarding mold/dampness which the landlord/agency will do nothing about.
Apparently its a lifestyle issue and they won't investigate any further (probably because they know what the issue is but don't care enough to fix it!)

Anyway im coming to the end of the 12 month contract and i do really want to stay.. we will have to invest in a dehumidifier which i dont think i should have to fork out for but we know at this stage that we are not going to get it out of the landlord.

The query i have is the agency have been on to say that the landlord is not willing to let the apartment on a month by month basis and that we now have to sign up for another 12 month contract..
Is this correct?

Some friends etc are telling me that after the intial 12 months the contract usually rolls over and if i wanted out/landlord wanted me out we just have to give certain amount of notice?
What are the 'rules' surrounding extension/renewal of contract?

As said i do love the apt and want to stay now but if in 3 months time the mold is uncontrollable and the landlord will do nothing about it i dont want to be binded to the place for another 9 months.

Any advice?

Thanks

djimi

The landlord doesnt really have a choice in the matter. After 6 months in a tenancy you aquire part 4 tenancy rights, which run concorrent to the fixed term lease and kick in when the FTL expires. Under a part 4 the tenant is entitled to stay for up to 4 years, and there are only number of criteria that allow the landlord to ask a tenant to leave (they need the property for themselves/family member, they want to sell the property, they want to renovate etc). They do not have the right to end the tenancy for other reasons, including them wanting you to sign a further FTL.

djimi

The landlord may well be right about the mould btw. Ventilation (not opening windows), lack of adequate heating, drying clothes indoors etc can all contribute to mould. Have you had the problem investigated properly?

Dublin21

Hi djimi,

Thanks for the info re the lease - so should i refuse to actually sign something or would it make a difference if i signed something or not?
Would i still be covered under the part 4 act if i wished to move in 6 months time after the initial 12 months has passed but i have signed another 12 month lease?

In relation to the mould.. its an ongoing issue..
We have been onto the agency a few times about it now and each time have been told its a lifestyle issue and to get dettol mould and mildew remover to combat it.. This is without them actually sending someone out to 'diagnose' the cause!

I have been in touch with the board of the apartments who have said its a known problem in the complex, i.e. bad ventilation and suggested leaving windows open, whcih we do but there is only so long we can leave them open for.

Its the first place i have ever had mould in almost 10 years of renting and we have tried everything to combat it bar buying a dehumidifier.. So i can appreciate that some ppl would create the problem I really dont think in this instance it is down to my lifestyle choices.

djimi

Dublin21 wrote: »

Hi djimi,

Thanks for the info re the lease - so should i refuse to actually sign something or would it make a difference if i signed something or not?
Would i still be covered under the part 4 act if i wished to move in 6 months time after the initial 12 months has passed but i have signed another 12 month lease?

If you write to the landlord and inform them that you intend to remain in the property on a part 4 tenancy then there isnt really a whole that they can do about it; unless they can trigger one of the clauses in the part 4 to allow a landlord to break a lease then they have no way of legally asking you to leave.

Under a part 4 you can give notice as set out in the part 4 tenancy and leave at any time.

Dublin21

Thats understandable.

I will go back with that info and see whats said.

I was just worried that by signing another lease it would 'override' the P4 act but if its not necessary to have/sign another lease in the first place then i won't be doing that!

Thanks again.

accensi0n

Dublin21 wrote: »

Thats understandable.

I will go back with that info and see whats said.

I was just worried that by signing another lease it would 'override' the P4 act but if its not necessary to have/sign another lease in the first place then i won't be doing that!

Thanks again.

How close to the end of 12 month lease are you? I think you're meant to give at least 28 days notice of your intention to continue on a Part 4. I could be wrong but have a vague memory of reading that a couple of months ago.

djimi

accensi0n wrote: »

How close to the end of 12 month lease are you? I think you're meant to give at least 28 days notice of your intention to continue on a Part 4. I could be wrong but have a vague memory of reading that a couple of months ago.

If you intend to continue on a part 4 after a fixed term lease and do not inform the landlord of your intenstions then technically you can be held liable for any costs that they have incurred in re-advertising the property etc. How this actually works in reality I dont know.

Dublin21

Thanks both.

Ok so got a reply.

''
The legislation allows you to renew the lease for up to 4 years on the terms offered by the landlord, this can include an increase in rent.
The wording of the act can be confusing, this arises where the tenant wishes to stay on and there are negotiations or a delay in signing a new lease.

The act confirms that the tenancy and the terms of the existing lease carry forward on a month to month basis until the new lease is signed or the tenancy ends. Some people confuse this as stating that they can stay on a month to month basis.''


So i would need to sign a 12 month lease again because its a landlords requirement??...

P_1

Was that reply from the agent OP?

If so, it sounds like them trying to secure another 'finders fee' fro re letting the apartment.

AFAIK the agent or landlord can't do anything to prevent you from taking up your Part 4 rights.

Dublin21

That was the reply from the agency..

They said that the landlord is considering increasing the rent too which im not really bothered about. There is no way im paying More than what im paying now for the apartment and i presume if its brought to me i have the option of giving notice rather than staying on?

So are the legit in saying that? The P4 is literally a 'waiting' period until a new lease is signed?

Does the landlord have the right to say you either sign a new contract or i have to terminate it?

P_1

Dublin21 wrote: »

That was the reply from the agency..

They said that the landlord is considering increasing the rent too which im not really bothered about. There is no way im paying More than what im paying now for the apartment and i presume if its brought to me i have the option of giving notice rather than staying on?

So are the legit in saying that? The P4 is literally a 'waiting' period until a new lease is signed?

Does the landlord have the right to say you either sign a new contract or i have to terminate it?

I don't think so OP, have you asked the likes of threshold about how it works?

Dublin21

I'm literally just getting onto them now!!

I'll let you know what they say.

D3PO

Dublin21 wrote: »

Thanks both.

Ok so got a reply.

''
The legislation allows you to renew the lease for up to 4 years on the terms offered by the landlord, this can include an increase in rent.
The wording of the act can be confusing, this arises where the tenant wishes to stay on and there are negotiations or a delay in signing a new lease.

The act confirms that the tenancy and the terms of the existing lease carry forward on a month to month basis until the new lease is signed or the tenancy ends. Some people confuse this as stating that they can stay on a month to month basis.''


So i would need to sign a 12 month lease again because its a landlords requirement??...

thats a crock of crap . The agency are wrong and tbh they probably know it aswell they are filling you full of crap so you resign.

djimi

The agency are talking through their backsides. After 6 months (be it on a fixed term or not) you aquire part 4 rights, and on a part 4 tenancy you can stay for up to 4 years (when the cycle begins again) unless the landlord wishes to envoke one of the clauses set out in the part 4 that allows them to end the tenancy. Its not enough for them to say sign a new lease or you are out; it doesnt work like that.

If youre in any doubt get onto Threshold and ask them to clarify the situation for you. Get something in writing and send it straight back to the agency.

Dublin21

Will do, thanks all.

Was too late for threshold today. Sent off an email but will follow up with a call in the morning and let you know what was said.

Ive no idea why they are being so awkward about it.. We pay our rent on time and have never been much trouble however i actually feel like we are turning into 'Problematic tenants' because we are querying this!

If we can still terminate the contract with correct notice ive no idea why a new lease needs to be signed.. Really doesn't make sense.

P_1

The company would presumably get a commission for you signing a new lease, that's probably why they're being so pushy about it

Dublin21

So threshold advised me that i didn't need to sign a new contract. That P4 kicks in etc and there is no need.

I sent this to the MGT agency and got a reply to say that 'threshold have many different views on many different matters and on this occasion we do not agree with their interpretation'' ..... I would be gobsmacked if i had never dealt with the agency before but unfortunately i expected such a reply.

Anyway a day or two after their email they came back to say the landlord was increasing the rent by 100e! No reference to the contract at all..
I went back to ask them to reply first to my initial query and never got a reply. So we gave our notice last week. Just isn't worth the hassle.

It would have been more subtle to just ask us to leave!

I have to hand back the keys on Monday when they come for 'inspection' and ive a feeling they are going to be as fecking awkward as they can abotu refunding the rent. Not looking forward to that bit even though the place is practically the same as when we moved in..

Fingers crossed i never have to deal with a 'management' agency like that again!

djimi

Another story that just goes further to proving that this country badly needs regulation on letting agents. The amount of them that dont know the absolute basics of tenancy law is quite frightening.

I dont know if there would be any point to it but if you are feeling like you want to take this further then it might be worth exploring the option of taking a PRTB case for the agent/landlord denying your right to peaceful enjoyment of the property. I dont know if what they have done would fall under that, but to me the fact that they have first lied to you and used bully tactics to try and get you to sign a further lease, and then have the nerve to jack up the rent in an obvious attempt to get to get you to leave, cannot be lawful and such antics should not go unpunished. I have to admit I dont know exactly what you can do about it, but if it were me Id certainly be exploring my options.

Dublin21

I was going to get onto the PRTB after they didn't 'accept' thresholds interpretation but i honestly just felt whats the point! Id be dealing with this crowd for the rest of my time there and it isn't worth it.

If I have Any issues getting my deposit back ill be straight onto them though as i have pointed out Numerous times the issues we were having with the property.

Def need regulations for these agencies!

Shocking that they think they can 'disagree' with facts!
I'd love to be able to even report the agency so their bad 'advice' would have some repercussions..

D3PO

Dublin21 wrote: »

I was going to get onto the PRTB after they didn't 'accept' thresholds interpretation but i honestly just felt whats the point! Id be dealing with this crowd for the rest of my time there and it isn't worth it.

If I have Any issues getting my deposit back ill be straight onto them though as i have pointed out Numerous times the issues we were having with the property.

Def need regulations for these agencies!

Shocking that they think they can 'disagree' with facts!
I'd love to be able to even report the agency so their bad 'advice' would have some repercussions..

yeah your better just moving out its not worth the hassle. If you wanted to be a pain in the ass to the EA and landlord, You could reply to the EA saying you are not accepting the rental rate increase as you dont feel the current market warrants it, and will be raising the issue with the PRTB.

You can do this and pay your current rent until the PRTB adjudicate on the matter and see if the rental increase is warranted. If they agree with you you then your laughing If they do however you would owe the difference between the current rent and the new rent.

given how much of a pain the EA is being Id actually be tempted to do this myself just to piss them off even if I felt the rental increase was reasonable

Chris_5339762

If you do decide to move, make sure to follow this up with the PRTB. That letting agent needs to be taught a lesson.

Dublin21

I sent the EA a reply when they advised of the rent increase stating that out of interest we monitored the rent in the area over the last 6 months and that it was nowhere near the market price and therefore can be disputed with the PRTB - I never got a reply from them which is why i just decided to get out.
Sick of their lack of follow up (yet when the do its a ridiculous unfair response!)

Ill wait to see if there is any issue with the deposit first and if not i will try contact the PRTB to advise of how they 'disagreed' with P4 tenancy rules etc and jacked up the price etc.

I doubt anything will ever be done unfortunately but at least it will be recorded somewhere of how bad they are!

djimi

You can open a case with the PRTB even after you leave; from what I can see you have been forced out of this property by their use of bullying tactics and if it were me I would not take that lying down.

Dublin21

Well i'll def try do that so!
I just want to see if im going to have any issues getting my full deposit back first because ill be on about that anyway and then can add in the rest!

Koops80

Contact the landlord and tell him the estate agents carry on. As has been said they are just looking for fees from a new agreement. They charge about 8% plus costs so it would have been in the landlords interests to leave ye there at current rent, especially as ye sound like ye didn't give trouble.

djimi

Koops80 wrote: »

Contact the landlord and tell him the estate agents carry on. As has been said they are just looking for fees from a new agreement. They charge about 8% plus costs so it would have been in the landlords interests to leave ye there at current rent, especially as ye sound like ye didn't give trouble.

I would have agreed had the landlord not looked to jack the price up. Sounds like the agent is acting on instruction from the landlord.

Dublin21

I think they are as bad as each other unfortunately!

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

I would have agreed had the landlord not looked to jack the price up. Sounds like the agent is acting on instruction from the landlord.

i read it that way too. EA to LL tenant making waves.

LL says jack up the rent will force him out.

Out of principle Id stay and make a dispute to the PRTB about the rental increase. Id stick it to this LL and the disgracefull EA who is complicit in this.

Dublin21

Yup! I know the LL knows the EA quite well as he told me this when he showed me around the apt intiailly!

I could understand it if i was really kicking up a stink during my time there but with all the problems we have had including no hot water for weeks over christmas and the constant mould/damp issue i have never asked for a rent decrease or tried withholding rent.
The only thing i requested (and apparently rightly so) was that i rolled onto P4 tenancy and didnt have to sign a 12 month contract!

He was obviously willing to have me there for a futher 12 months as he was the one requesting this!

Oh well.. moving into my new place on Sat so all down to experience at the end of the day.. But i def will contact the PRTB even if its just to rant about how bad they were!

odds_on

I would advise the agent/landlord that you are making a claim against them for attempted illegal eviction by trying to:
1. Force you to sign a new lease and not use your rights under Part 4 laws to remain in the property under a Part 4 tenancy.
2. That the increase in rent is not in line for similar properties in the area.
3. That you have complained on several occasions that there is mould in the property which is confirmed as a fault by the Management Co, but they insist, without having done any investigation into the matter, that it is a lifestyle problem.
4. Through the above issues, the landlord/agent is trying to harass you to vacate the property.
5. If you are not permitted to remain in the property with a Part 4 tenancy, you will also seek damages for illegal eviction.

If you leave without protest, you may be deemed to have accepted the landlord's request to leave - therefore, a letter to the landlord/agent will help prove your case that you wish to remain in the property (as would a letter to confirm your wish to remain at the end of the fixed term but under a Part 4 tenancy and not a Fixed term agreement.

As regards the mould, you should check with the neighbours (besdide, above and below) to see if they are also having mould problems - if they aren't, then it might well be a lifestyle problem.

In my experience, there are too many EAs who do not know the RTA 2004 laws and try to bully tenants into doing things that are not actually required in law or try to evict tenants illegally.