How to decide on a marathon pace?

Freiheit

A big difference between my pace for 10k's and those leisurely long runs. A lot of plans talk about 'marathon pace', how do I know what that should be?

I'm a first timer.

KielyUnusual

Best way to do this is by putting the time of a recently run race into a running calculator like this

McMillan Running Calculator

Of course the actual time you would run is dependent on a lot of factors and the specific training that you are putting in for that event. I find resources like this are generally pretty accurate for me.

The calculator is good too if you are running a race at a specific distance for the first time so you can check the approximate pace that you might want to run. Ideally, you want to beating the time it predicts. It's always good to put an automated program in it's place.

Freiheit

Thanks....that looks good.

The danger is of going faster than I might be able to sustain. There's a temptation to go for an ultra cautious approach as I don't know how I'll feel. Anyway I've got plenty of time to work out an approach.

Danke

K

ger664

Its your first marathon so 5 times your 10K time is a good starting point for a goal marathon time.

pistol_75

Freiheit wrote: »

Thanks....that looks good.

The danger is of going faster than I might be able to sustain. There's a temptation to go for an ultra cautious approach as I don't know how I'll feel. Anyway I've got plenty of time to work out an approach.

Danke

K

I think it's generally recognised the time from online calculators can be ambitious for first time or even first few marathons. It assumes you will maintain the pace no problem and have the aerobic training done.

Do you plan to do a half marathon before your marathon? This might give a better indicator than your 10K time.

RayCun

pistol_75 wrote: »

Do you plan to do a half marathon before your marathon? This might give a better indicator than your 10K time.

Yeah, generally the closer the distance you race, the better you'll be able to judge, so a half marathon time is a better predictor than a marathon time. But it's still guesswork really. After you've run a couple of marathons and know where your strengths are, you'll be better placed to predict a marathon time from a different race.

Airtel31

Currently Im training for the Cork, at the moment I'm training 3 to 4 days doing 10k's best time of 55 mins hoping increase my days training, should I be thinking less miles and more training days or should I stick to the 10k's and a big run every week

Freiheit

Hi all,thanks. I'm preparing for Limerick in 14 weeks. Did a 10k in 48 minutes last weekend. But 13.1 miles in training at relaxed conversational pace takes 2 and a half hours,that's a big gap. Admittedly in training I'm often wearing heavier rain proof,warmer clothing but that's still a big gap. I don't know of any 'halfs' that I could easily reach before then but I can see the logic for sure.

Would a 'half' against the clock on my own have any benefit?

RayCun

Airtel31 wrote: »

Currently Im training for the Cork, at the moment I'm training 3 to 4 days doing 10k's best time of 55 mins hoping increase my days training, should I be thinking less miles and more training days or should I stick to the 10k's and a big run every week

More miles and more training days, preferably. You should look around for a proper marathon training plan, there are loads available, the main things you need to look for are
steady progression in your longest runs up to 20 miles a few weeks before the marathon
steady buildup of distances in your other runs
Run easy most of the time - do not race yourself in every 10k run. You can pick one run a week to go faster, whether that's intervals, fartlek, or marathon pace
A good plan will explain all this.

Freiheit wrote: »

Hi all,thanks. I'm preparing for Limerick in 14 weeks. Did a 10k in 48 minutes last weekend. But 13.1 miles in training at relaxed conversational pace takes 2 and a half hours,that's a big gap. Admittedly in training I'm often wearing heavier rain proof,warmer clothing but that's still a big gap. I don't know of any 'halfs' that I could easily reach before then but I can see the logic for sure.

Would a 'half' against the clock on my own have any benefit?

A half marathon in training will never be as fast as a real race. You'll get tired, start making bargains with yourself, slack off, and then you'll be back here saying "I did x in training but I think in a real race I could have been y minutes faster - how fast can I go in a marathon?", and it's back to the guesswork. Much better to find a real race.

EauRouge79

Im not really answering your question but as a 1st timer my advice would be to stick with whatever pace you are managing on your longer runs. Find your natural pace this way, enjoy the experience and you can try to improve this pace in future races.
I think time goals and expectations can put you under to much pressure in your 1st marathon. Covering the distance should be the main challenge for now.

Freiheit

Thanks,I think thats a good idea Rouge,although I wouldn't like to be dramaticaly slower than I'm capable of either,take it easy but not too easy....or maybe as it's first time I should just take it easy and be sure to make it? no disgrace in a 5 hour or 4.45 first time marathon?.

EauRouge79

Freiheit wrote: »

Thanks,I think thats a good idea Rouge,although I wouldn't like to be dramaticaly slower than I'm capable of either,take it easy but not too easy....or maybe as it's first time I should just take it easy and be sure to make it? no disgrace in a 5 hour or 4.45 first time marathon?.

Hi,
Finishing the race is a massive achievement and you may event surprise yourself with your time.
You will have an idea yourself from your long 18/20 training runs as to kind of time you can expect.

Freiheit

Hi can anyone recommend an accurate pedometer,either on or off line?

My Nike Ipod pedometer is well off ,measured only 8k after almost 10k at a recent run,so I'm realising now that I'm never really sure how far I've gone!

Are IPhone pedometers apps any good? but they are probably too big?

Also the Ipod seems to have only 3 hours,3 15' of battery life,what am I to do on the big day?

Thanks

K

T runner

Hi

The long run is key for you. The other tarining should support you being able to run this run longer and faster.

You need to train 5 times a week aiming for 6. Of the 4 existing runs make one your long run...hold as close as possible to the 10k training pace, extend this run out. and gradually increase another run so that it is 2/3 rds of your long run.
The other runs will be your standard 10k runs or 2X5k runs easy if tired. You need to get as much air through your body per week through running. run twice on one day if you are feeling good....its alll about miles but build slolwy. Unless you are very tired none of your runs should be more than 10% faster than your planned pace. otherwise they are not relevant to you.

Week might be:
1 long run (easy for first few but then as fast as you can manage it, while allowing you to complete the other training)
1 medium long run, as much at race pace as possible)
3 X 10k runs (faster but not more than 10% faster than race pace)
1 run with 6 X 100 metres stride (3/4 sprint running with relaxed and good form, not a hard sprint, but fast, controlled and relaxed.) helps your technique.

When wondering if your running to hard or mileage too large always ask yourself.... can i do the next 3 weeks training if i run this hard/far? if yes, your training is sustaineable, if no then adjust accordingly.

a maximum week for you (3 week out) might be

1 X 20 mile run fast as can be managed.
1 by 13 mile run at race pace,
2 by 10k in one day and
two other days of 10k.
final day of easy running with strides

Do look at schedules. Most important things for you are: long runs, volume of miles. The total volume and 10k runs will allow you to run the 2 long runs better which will have a direct bearing on the marathon.

You should start the race at 5 seconds per mile slower than your target pace.

ncmc

Freiheit wrote: »

Hi all,thanks. I'm preparing for Limerick in 14 weeks. Did a 10k in 48 minutes last weekend. But 13.1 miles in training at relaxed conversational pace takes 2 and a half hours,that's a big gap. Admittedly in training I'm often wearing heavier rain proof,warmer clothing but that's still a big gap. I don't know of any 'halfs' that I could easily reach before then but I can see the logic for sure.

Would a 'half' against the clock on my own have any benefit?

Hi Frieheit, I am certainly not an expert by any stretch, but I did complete DCM last year and like yourself was a bit confused about pace while training. I certainly agree that you should try and do a half marathon or at least a 10 mile race in the next month or so, that will give you a much better idea of your pace than a 10k. If you do a half marathon then race it flat out, that time will give you a good idea of what is achievable in your marathon. How long are you running? If you are quite an experienced runner and have a good few miles under your belt, then you may find a 4:00-4:15 marathon is achievable. If you are quite new to running then you might be better going with the 4:30 pacers and pushing on if you feel up to it.

I did my one and only 10k in 48 mins last April and did DCM in 3:57, but I had been running a few years and had quite a lot of miles done. My half time was 1:48 which McMillin returned as a marathon time of 3:47, so I would agree that the McMillin times are a bit optimistic. I think 2 x your half time plus 10% is more accurate.

Sorry, just editing to add, a half against the clock on your own won’t have the same benefit as doing a proper half race. You will always run faster in a race than you would on your own. As Raycun says, you may get bored, or distracted, or make bargains with yourself, or slack off a bit. In a race, not only do you want to make the best showing possible, but the excitement of race day will get you moving faster also!

ncmc

Freiheit wrote: »

Hi can anyone recommend an accurate pedometer,either on or off line?

My Nike Ipod pedometer is well off ,measured only 8k after almost 10k at a recent run,so I'm realising now that I'm never really sure how far I've gone!

Are IPhone pedometers apps any good? but they are probably too big?

Also the Ipod seems to have only 3 hours,3 15' of battery life,what am I to do on the big day?

Thanks

K

I cannot recommend enough that you get a proper GPS watch, they will totally transform your training, they will tell you exact distance and pace, but you can also set them up to do faster intervals and you can accurately track your runs, they will tell you how long each mile is taking you, so you can see if you are speeding up/slowing down as your workout progresses. I use a Garmin Forerunner 205, it is fine, but if I were buying again, I would get one that is compatable with a heart rate monitor.

ncmc

Airtel31 wrote: »

Currently Im training for the Cork, at the moment I'm training 3 to 4 days doing 10k's best time of 55 mins hoping increase my days training, should I be thinking less miles and more training days or should I stick to the 10k's and a big run every week

Again, agree with Raycun, you should really try and follow a proper training plan. The good news is that most of the training plans are 18 weeks so if you start this week you will be ready just in time for Cork!

A popular plan for first time marathoners is Hal Higdon Novice 1

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program

On the Dublin City Marathon Novice thread last year, most people followed this with almost unanimous success!

Freiheit

Thanks,checked out GPS watches,they are shockingly expensive aren't they?

I've been running 5 and 10k's for over 3 years,I'm in my early 30's,but am new to running beyond that.

I had been loosely following this
http://www.greatlimerickrun.com/participants/training/marathonbegin

But I'd be approximately at week 10 ,when in reality it's calendar week 5 and my shorter runs have been a bit longer than those recommended.

Thoughts?

I'll start by trying to do the longer run a bit faster then? It recommends taking it easy in the listed plan. And try to extend a run midweek?

Airtel31

I use map my run on the iPhone which is great and it's free as well, thanks for the advice, I have access to a five mile circuit which is handy for judging distance but it gets very boring, but I plan to increase the training I'm already up the mileage but am cycling one of the days just for something and some plans recommend it aswell which is also good for checking out routes for running and checking distances as well

Airtel31

Just checked out that 18 week and seems very good with a little juggling it should work out, and if that's goes well we even try DCM as there about 20 weeks between them

rom

The time it takes you to 22 mile LSR at easy pace is probably the best predictor on what you will do on race day. e.g. My easy pace before Dublin was 9mins/mile 9x22 = 198mins . A half marathon may have almost no relation to how you do at the full for a first-timer. Note the LSR needs to be at easy conversational pace where you can talk for most of it. Easy pace is best gaged on effort but for me it would be 50 beats below my Max HR*

*where I have achieve the Max HR in a race (not using an online calculator)

Freiheit

What does LSR stand for ? I assume you mean the 22 miles at conversational pace?. The plan attached strikes me as being on the easy side,but maybe that's what a beginner should be doing,taking it relatively easy ,making sure to finish it and try to do a bit better next time?

ncmc

LSR means long slow run. You should do your long run at a slower pace than you intend to run the marathon (about 60-90 seconds per mile slower) this teaches the body to burn fat as well as glycogen (the fuel in your body from food) which tends to run out at 19-20 miles causing the runner to 'hit the wall'. If you do your lsr at the right pace, your body should learn to burn fat as well as glycogen and in theory you shouldn't hit the wall.

Gavlor

EauRouge79 wrote: »

Hi,
Finishing the race is a massive achievement and you may event surprise yourself with your time.
You will have an idea yourself from your long 18/20 training runs as to kind of time you can expect.

Exactly this. When you finish your 22 mile run then you'll have a very good idea as to what's comfortable for you and therefore what's achievable

RedRunner

Just to add to the mix because I'm just running a couple of years. In 2012 I did 1:56 HM and went on to do 4:27 in DCM......Do not underestimate the distance and especially that last 10K. I was bang on target pace for first 20 miles then fatigued big time.

4:45 for a first time marathon is no disgrace, that was my time for my first in 2010! The achievement of finishing was enough for me first time out. Now I have targets and Time demons to defeat!:)

Best of luck with your training. A lot of good advice has already been posted here.

Freiheit

Thanks,14 miles sunday hurt a lot,more than 18 the previous sunday,which I can't really understand,there was no problem with cardiovascular fitness but my limbs,esp below the knees ached a lot.

Just goes to show it's best to take it relatively gentle and be sure that I make it all the way first time,even if it's in 5 hours,there'l be capacity for improvement next time,maybe Dublin in October?. Where does Dublin start and finish incidentally?

My Nike IPOD-Pedometer went dead at around 12.5 miles but my half marathon time was about 2.20,that's with a raincoat and carrying a bottle of water/banana for most.

Incidentally if I am still aching a bit,should I rest and let this pass or should I continue training gently?.

ncmc

Freiheit wrote: »

Thanks,14 miles sunday hurt a lot,more than 18 the previous sunday,which I can't really understand,there was no problem with cardiovascular fitness but my limbs,esp below the knees ached a lot.

Just goes to show it's best to take it relatively gentle and be sure that I make it all the way first time,even if it's in 5 hours,there'l be capacity for improvement next time,maybe Dublin in October?. Where does Dublin start and finish incidentally?

My Nike IPOD-Pedometer went dead at around 12.5 miles but my half marathon time was about 2.20,that's with a raincoat and carrying a bottle of water/banana for most.

Incidentally if I am still aching a bit,should I rest and let this pass or should I continue training gently?.

Everyone has bad runs, so don’t worry too much about it. We all have days where we have aches and pains and aren’t feeling it as much. A good idea after a tough run is to do a recovery run. This means a short run (maybe 3 or 4 miles) done at a VERY slow pace. I’m talking a minute or so slower than your planned marathon pace.

What this does is gets the blood flowing to your muscles, aiding recovery, but you’re not running hard enough to damage the muscles when they are already delicate. I know sometimes it’s the last thing you feel like, but this really does help. You should continue to run easy until your legs feel recovered.

Dublin starts in Fitzwilliam Square and ends in Merrion Square. I think it’s a great idea to do Limerick and then see how much you can improve for Dublin. Incidently, it’s much easier to train over the Summer months, so Dublin is a great marathon to do in that respect.

eoinín

Freiheit wrote: »

Thanks,checked out GPS watches,they are shockingly expensive aren't they?

The Garmin Forerunner F10 is reasonably priced (€135) and will definitely help you regulate your pace. I used it in the DCM last year and found it invaluable. It really prevented me going out way to fast.

http://www.amphibianking.ie/product_info.php?products_id=393

Freiheit

Thanks,so this will tell me how fast I'm going and keep me posted will it? it's easy to understand?. Even E135 is a lot,so I need to be sure. I certainly need something better than I have now though.......

eoinín

It will tell you your current pace and you can set it to beep when you go above / below your set desired pace. Its really simple to understand - you cant really go wrong with it.

There's a review and loads of detailed info on its functionality here.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/08/garmin-forerunner-10-fr10-gps-watch-in.html

Airtel31

Again I use map my run its tells you your time after each mile, what is the best diet for training I am about 2 stone over weight so trying to loose it as well as training